Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Survey

Old 10th May 2014, 02:00
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Nippi
Posts: 235
Ash, your a donkey. How is that for grammar? Simple and easily understood.
DropKnee is offline  
Old 10th May 2014, 02:45
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Few place
Posts: 207
Anonymity?

Ask yourself this - Why has each pilot been issued with a unique identifier for their survey?

Under the guise of ensuring only one filled out per individual?

De-identified? Not a chance. There will be a tracking pixel in the html coding of this survey, and each result will be checked against the individual.

To assume anonymity is to not understand Cx.

You do this survey, you may as well have written your name in texta across the top.

Sure as night follows day.
monster330 is offline  
Old 10th May 2014, 06:28
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 43
Posts: 977
I think for most it is not fear of reprisal from the company, it's just plain old not giving a sh*t and seeing it as just more uncredited online garbage.
SloppyJoe is offline  
Old 10th May 2014, 10:52
  #24 (permalink)  
XFR8
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Posts: n/a
Fill the bloody survey in and be honest.

If it's not confidential well they'll know exactly how you feel. Does that scare you?
If they ignore the results, big deal.
If they massage the results, big deal
If it's a con, big deal.
If it's for real, big deal.

Just fill the bloody thing in. Not filling in a survey just says you don't care, and if you don't care, stop wingeing on this forum.
 
Old 10th May 2014, 11:09
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Helsinki
Age: 45
Posts: 51
The Clear Message

XFR ,I understand your point. But what you have to understand is that by filling it the company feels you appreciate this job, regardless of the result, do you see my point? Even if the result says that everyone's unhappy, they will see it as, well they took the time to show their concern for the company they care about so much.

But by NOT filing anything....now THAT sends them a message, by not going to auditorium briefings, by not asking any questions during forums, by not working on g days. So good luck with wasting time guys, at least at the end this will show the ones that are in doubt, that Cx DOES NOT CARE about you .
gipilot is offline  
Old 11th May 2014, 00:29
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,120
Gipilot. I think you are mistaken. Do you really think they will see it your way if you do not fill it it?

Do you think the majority of the crews will not fill it in?...think again!

Don't you think it is better to send a clear message by ticking the box that says "I am not happy and I am looking to leave" rather than " If I don't fill it it in they will think that we think that they are a company that does not care!"

Ask yourself this question. Which one sends a clear message to management?
Frogman1484 is offline  
Old 11th May 2014, 01:45
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 673
I think filling it out and saying what we think sends a much stronger message. Ignoring it will simply make them shrug and move on which of course may happen anyway.

Who cares if they know who we are? If we are scared of honestly saying what we think in their survey then we have no hope.q
geh065 is offline  
Old 11th May 2014, 02:13
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,120
Well said geh065.
Frogman1484 is offline  
Old 11th May 2014, 02:24
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Nuclear Dust City
Posts: 131
Frogman,

If people indeed honestly filled the survey out as you've suggested, how many do you think will actually say that "they are unhappy" AND "they are looking to leave". Definitely not those ex-A scalers who didn't sign RA65 and still have yet to leave, nor the ones that did sign over and hoping they could save up enough in the next couple years before their ex-wives take it all, nor the B scalers who are still banking on getting their 25 yrs housing, nor the C scalers born and bred in HK and know nothing about the outside World, nor the supposedly expat C scalers who still haven't got enough hours to go anywhere.

You'd be lucky to get 10% of the voting body to actually say they wanna leave, if even, especially now that they've told you each person has his/her own unique login. And because of your plea, the company gets to say "we know you guys are unhappy but not that many want to leave the BEST employer in HK, that pretty much sums it up for everyone working in Kitty City except for those of us reaping huge bonuses, so until your group actually tells us otherwise with their feet instead of their big mouths, take this crap offer and shut up in that dark little corner!"
CXChildLabour is offline  
Old 11th May 2014, 02:49
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: hk
Age: 63
Posts: 151
I am with Froggy on this one.

I have filled in the survey. I have been here in CX for 25yrs and have done a few surveys in my time. All the previous surveys were useless as there were NO questions for pilots to answer and the questions were always wishy washy. HOWEVER this survey is different and I enjoyed giving honest answers to some pretty direct questions as to what we think of management.

Every pilot should fill in this survey.

If you dont have the balls to fill it in (because you are scared management might find out who you are) then I guess you dont have the balls to do CC or any other action and hence you are useless to the pilot body.

The majority of crew I have flow with have filled it in and they were surprised at how direct and frank the ques were.

I am willing to bet that more than 90% of aircrew will fill it in as it is a one off chance to send a message to the entire company (not just FOP) that we are not happy. Yes I know...will it produce an outcome..most probably not...but it was fun filling it in anyway.
PanZa-Lead is offline  
Old 11th May 2014, 03:15
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Here ---> X
Posts: 437
We have already told the company and management what we want, through the AOA. Their answer was pretty clear and it was something to the tune of: F#ck you.

So, may anyone tell me what we can possibly expect from this survey, apart from the satisfaction of telling them off?

Is anybody seriously expecting any sort of positive return from this? We all know the management's stance, so why would that not be another bait with a hook in it?
Yonosoy Marinero is offline  
Old 11th May 2014, 03:17
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Nuclear Dust City
Posts: 131
PanZa,

Rather than being scared of management, it's more like not giving a crap what they ask of me cause they can take all these extra stuff they want done and shove it. First, I ain't paid extra to do this survey so it's up to me whether I want to volunteer in helping with their negotiation, which I don't see why I'd want to. Second, why do they need to know what "I" think when the union has already been telling them the exact thing numerous times for the last 4 months (and longer), were they living in a cave to not get it just by listening to what's being talked about on the street?

Instead of asking if guys have the balls to do CC when they're asked, how about if YOU have the balls to do CC when you are not even asked? Your contract says nothing about filling out surveys to help the company improve, why volunteer? Are you hired to do such a job? Are you paid to do such a job? I know what I'm hired and paid to do, and that's to do whatever is required to fly the airplane, as per my roster says within legal limits, safely from A to B and whatever happens in between, nothing more and nothing less. Do you know what yours say?
CXChildLabour is offline  
Old 11th May 2014, 03:25
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Nuclear Dust City
Posts: 131
And if you really want to answer direct questions as to what you think about the management, here's an idea. Go to Kitty City 10 minutes early next time before you report, go up to 3rd floor and walk into one of their offices and give them your answer right there. See what they think then.
CXChildLabour is offline  
Old 11th May 2014, 04:25
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,120
Panza- Lead you are right in saying that most of the crews we fly with have answered the survey.

Not doing it and bitching on PPRuNe is not going to send a message.

Yes you did send a clear message to management with the CC vote, why not send another one with the survey?

At the end of the day they could choose not to publish the pilot's body results but they will know what we think and how deep routed the dislike of management is.
Frogman1484 is offline  
Old 11th May 2014, 05:10
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: far west
Posts: 152
ASR fatigue can be interpreted as sort of survey right?On a specific route we filed unnumbered ASR fatigue reports.Our "suggestion" was to put a third pilot for the segment.
What did we get to mitigate instead? Another bloody EXB in lovely India.
This came straight from the DFO. Why?
More ASR fatigue and 3 years later we got the 3 pilot.


Sorry my time is valuable, no survey for me
positionalpor is offline  
Old 11th May 2014, 13:15
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: hk
Age: 63
Posts: 151
Positionalpor

"Sorry my time is valuable, no survey for me"

Yeah..real valuable spending time on PPRuNe
PanZa-Lead is offline  
Old 11th May 2014, 18:05
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Nuclear Dust City
Posts: 131
Frogman,

Do you really think they care how upset you are with the management? Haven't you figured out how it works after all these years? There are two things they want to find out with this survey. 1) How many would actually leave if they screw you bad enough, with all honesty and no peer pressure and a unique login. 2) How much they could get away with in future negotiations.

I totally think they will take this survey seriously, they paid good money for it so they definitely want the results. Just not every single question they asked you though, definitely not the one about how happy/unhappy you are. Your happiness has no real value in their spreadsheet, everything else in that survey does, and that's the only thing they care. Remember, you are just a number that costs them more than others in order to get the aircraft from here to there.
CXChildLabour is offline  
Old 11th May 2014, 22:39
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: far west
Posts: 152
PanZa,I Employ my time in the manner I choose to. Value is dictated by a number of parameters which I am not here to explain it to your poor mind.
Either way I do put a value in everything I do and that perhaps is writing few posts on this site.
You don' t mention any value on your posts yet you value the same thing.
In short; why the hell you open your mouth for?
positionalpor is offline  
Old 12th May 2014, 01:48
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: hk
Age: 63
Posts: 151
Positionalpor


"why the hell you open your mouth for?"

More of your valuable time wasted writing this crap!

I am not too sure if it is even english? Have another valuable drink
PanZa-Lead is offline  
Old 12th May 2014, 09:04
  #40 (permalink)  
XFR8
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Posts: n/a
Joke

Another Fragrant Harbour Thread descends into farce. Well done Chaps.
 

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