Why you should ignore the stupid ban
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Why you should ignore the stupid ban
For those considering taking a job with Cathay as an Second Officer, here are my thoughts:
NO S/Os were fired - so whose job are you taking? Since the 49ers were sacked more than 49 upgrades have occurred and more than 49 pilots have joined the company. You are not taking anyone’s job!
The company is adding more aeroplanes - that is what they are recruiting for. Before the 49ers were fired we worked 700 hours per year, now it is up to 900 hours. The company isn’t replacing these pilots - they don’t need to.
Whilst some ask that people do not join Cathay, they take upgrades (from S/O to F/O and F/O to Command) themselves. How can the AOA / IFALPA ask that you turn down a great career opportunity, while at the same time their members take promotion? One feeble excuse given is that if they didn’t take the promotion, Cathay would hire direct entry contract pilots, so to prevent this they must take the promotion (and the extra pay). The truth behind this is that they can only prevent the direct entry contract pilots by filling the positions themselves and they can only hope to prevent pilots from joining the company by intimidation and harassment. Experienced contract pilots would not tolerate intimidation by the union pilots.
The AOA could have had the majority of the 49ers back at work months ago, but refused this option in the (false) hope of getting all of the 49ers reemployed. This is NOT going to happen!
Each and every one of the 49ers were fired for a reason. The company know that legal challenges are likely (one day the AOA might even win a court case). The company was very careful with their selection. The AOA wants the members to believe that it was done ‘for no reason’ to scare the pilot body into believing it could be anyone of them next. Of course the company has not publicly stated reasons - it is much harder to challenge a loss of confidence, than say frequent sickness to get the roster they want.
The 49ers were fired for good reasons, but they were also fired to intimidate the pilot body. It has worked. Now the sickness levels are extremely low (and the rosters are stable - so who was to blame for the roster instability in the first place?), the flights run on time and the pilots can be worked to 900 hours per year.
The only ‘achievements’ of the AOA in the last year are: an increase in the workable hours from 700 to 900 hours, the loss of over 50 jobs and the fragmentation of the pilot body.
When the AOA say that they do not support the ‘scablist’ on their site, it is nothing but a lie. Everything that is posted on the cprune site is done under the control of the leadership. (a friend of mine was once asked if she minded having a posting removed, as it was not in line with AOA policy at the time) They are just trying to scare off new joiners, but don’t have the guts to admit to it.
If you are offered a job with Cathay TAKE IT! There are some dickless wonders who want you to believe that life will be unpleasant if you do...these scum are in the minority. They aren’t doing anything themselves ‘industrially’ that is at all effective. If you get any grief then I am sure the company will fully back you up. A few sackings will quickly sort out any trouble makers - after all, it worked last year.
New joiners will have my full support - after all, I have just taken a command.....
NO S/Os were fired - so whose job are you taking? Since the 49ers were sacked more than 49 upgrades have occurred and more than 49 pilots have joined the company. You are not taking anyone’s job!
The company is adding more aeroplanes - that is what they are recruiting for. Before the 49ers were fired we worked 700 hours per year, now it is up to 900 hours. The company isn’t replacing these pilots - they don’t need to.
Whilst some ask that people do not join Cathay, they take upgrades (from S/O to F/O and F/O to Command) themselves. How can the AOA / IFALPA ask that you turn down a great career opportunity, while at the same time their members take promotion? One feeble excuse given is that if they didn’t take the promotion, Cathay would hire direct entry contract pilots, so to prevent this they must take the promotion (and the extra pay). The truth behind this is that they can only prevent the direct entry contract pilots by filling the positions themselves and they can only hope to prevent pilots from joining the company by intimidation and harassment. Experienced contract pilots would not tolerate intimidation by the union pilots.
The AOA could have had the majority of the 49ers back at work months ago, but refused this option in the (false) hope of getting all of the 49ers reemployed. This is NOT going to happen!
Each and every one of the 49ers were fired for a reason. The company know that legal challenges are likely (one day the AOA might even win a court case). The company was very careful with their selection. The AOA wants the members to believe that it was done ‘for no reason’ to scare the pilot body into believing it could be anyone of them next. Of course the company has not publicly stated reasons - it is much harder to challenge a loss of confidence, than say frequent sickness to get the roster they want.
The 49ers were fired for good reasons, but they were also fired to intimidate the pilot body. It has worked. Now the sickness levels are extremely low (and the rosters are stable - so who was to blame for the roster instability in the first place?), the flights run on time and the pilots can be worked to 900 hours per year.
The only ‘achievements’ of the AOA in the last year are: an increase in the workable hours from 700 to 900 hours, the loss of over 50 jobs and the fragmentation of the pilot body.
When the AOA say that they do not support the ‘scablist’ on their site, it is nothing but a lie. Everything that is posted on the cprune site is done under the control of the leadership. (a friend of mine was once asked if she minded having a posting removed, as it was not in line with AOA policy at the time) They are just trying to scare off new joiners, but don’t have the guts to admit to it.
If you are offered a job with Cathay TAKE IT! There are some dickless wonders who want you to believe that life will be unpleasant if you do...these scum are in the minority. They aren’t doing anything themselves ‘industrially’ that is at all effective. If you get any grief then I am sure the company will fully back you up. A few sackings will quickly sort out any trouble makers - after all, it worked last year.
New joiners will have my full support - after all, I have just taken a command.....
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I certainly don't see a union buster ar work early. I see a sensible post asking reasonable questions and making logical determinations of the situation. Pity the last paragraph got a bit emotional but that can be excused by the times I guess. Anyway, no union busters need to worry, the union is doing a great job of destroying itself.
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No union busters needed, the AoA is doing a fine job of destroying itself...the credibility is already gone....more members = more support, dues etc etc....why are they alienating prospective supporters....because they can't see beyond their own selfishness...because they are morons
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I am not at all a union buster. I wish we in CX had an effective union to protect our interests. We don't. The AoA has been totally outclassed by CPA management. Now the AoA is destoring itself for a few of the 49ers.
I had hoped to receive some intelligent debate from my ealier post. A simple (incorrect) statement about union busters being up early adds nothing.
I had hoped to receive some intelligent debate from my ealier post. A simple (incorrect) statement about union busters being up early adds nothing.
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Not much to say really, you are so right in what you say. The militants can only abuse and intimidate not discuss or negotiate. A poser that has puzzled me for some time now, if CX is such a dreadful place with awful management, why are the disunion members not voting with their feet but expecting others to do it for them? Actually I know the answer, great company, excellent financial management and a long steady future for employees. Come and join us, the water is warm and the beer is cold - you will love CX.
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my future.....
Interesting post. I am a prospective cx so and it is good to hear that there are some in cx at present who might give some support to prospective new employees.
I can assure you that I will accept any offer of employment that is made. I'm not about to have a shot at my life's dream decided by a bunch of selfish individuals.... what right does any person have to tell you not to take a job. I cant believe some people have actually turned cx down. Madness.
I believe it to be a great company, from everybody I talk to.
I can assure you that I will accept any offer of employment that is made. I'm not about to have a shot at my life's dream decided by a bunch of selfish individuals.... what right does any person have to tell you not to take a job. I cant believe some people have actually turned cx down. Madness.
I believe it to be a great company, from everybody I talk to.
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Good for you woofa! I couldn't agree with you more.
From what mates of mine at CX say it seems as if the majority of pilots will accept you. I guess though that you will come across a couple of diehards. Rumour has it that a huge number of the union members are rather unhappy with the ban situation anyway.
Good luck.
From what mates of mine at CX say it seems as if the majority of pilots will accept you. I guess though that you will come across a couple of diehards. Rumour has it that a huge number of the union members are rather unhappy with the ban situation anyway.
Good luck.
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BEST POST EVER!!!
Pilotabroad - THAT WAS THE BEST POST ON THIS TOPIC EVER!!!
For those poor chaps that turned CX down - my grave condolences to you. You have made the worst decision of your life and let your dreams and hopes slip right through your fingers.
REMEMBER - THE MINORITY ALWAYS MAKES THE MOST NOISE
These tossers and their mates are on here employing scare tactics to try and drive new hires away - THEY HAVE ALREADY LOST THE BATTLE.
People are leaving the AOA day by day - they no longer want to pay the 5% to "the cause"
If you do get hasseled line flying - pull the CVR at the destination , call CX management , and turn the 49'ers into the 52'ers. Wait and see.
80% of the guys at CX will support and welcome the new hires - the 20% of hell bent troppo tossers that want to chastise you will fade away into ablivion.
THE END
For those poor chaps that turned CX down - my grave condolences to you. You have made the worst decision of your life and let your dreams and hopes slip right through your fingers.
REMEMBER - THE MINORITY ALWAYS MAKES THE MOST NOISE
These tossers and their mates are on here employing scare tactics to try and drive new hires away - THEY HAVE ALREADY LOST THE BATTLE.
People are leaving the AOA day by day - they no longer want to pay the 5% to "the cause"
If you do get hasseled line flying - pull the CVR at the destination , call CX management , and turn the 49'ers into the 52'ers. Wait and see.
80% of the guys at CX will support and welcome the new hires - the 20% of hell bent troppo tossers that want to chastise you will fade away into ablivion.
THE END
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"As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.,"
That is the warning at the bottom of this page.
Already the replacement workers in HK are getting the picture.
Cathay's management can post here all they want, If and when you arrive in HK you will find out the truth.
If you know any of the 16 already here, I suggest you call them.
There is a recruitment ban on. It doesn't really matter what you think of it. It exists.
Join if you like, but don't say you were not aware of the possible consequences.
Email Ted Murphy, the President of IFALPA , if you have doubts about the bans validity.
Any U.S. Pilots breaking the ban will shortly have their names appearing on the jump seat protection list in N.America. So whether you agree with the ban or not, you will appear on that list if you break the ban. USALPA are firmly supporting the ban, as are all associations represented by IFALPA.
I do not condone intimidation or harassment of replacement workers but their are many around who do. Regardless, if you join, you WILL be blacklisted for life. Whether you agree with the ban or not.
Think carefully. Do you really want to join a company with an industrial relations record like Cathay?
Do you really want to be blacklisted?
We were blackmailed in 94,99, and in 2001, 50+ pilots were terminated for no reason.
This all happened because The AOA has no industrial muscle.
Anyone refusing an upgrade because of the ban will be fired. Anyone taking part in a strike, will be fired.
Anyone that so much as looks at the Chief Pilot the wrong way, will be fired.
Anyone looking the wrong way at a replacement worker, will be fired.
That's the way it is at Cathay.
I'm not saying we are unique, because we're not. I'm sure it happens at other operators.
I'm just asking you consider the consequences of coming to work at Cathay Pacific Airways.
I've seen posts claiming that pilots are leaving the union. That's true. But it's the senior guys that don't have the guts for a fight that are leaving. The young turks, the unions strength are stronger than ever. There are very smart people joining the committee. We have the support of professional pilots all over the world.
The airline is losing pilots a lot faster than the union., so there will be jobs galore shortly. The management will have to address the 49ers issue and the replacement workers issue because they are NOT going away. The fact that the rats have been running on this forum makes that very clear. The jobs will still be there when the dust settles. Management has made it very clear that refusing a job whilst the ban is in place does not go against you.
A secretary on the management floor is "dating" one of our S/O's. She knows for a fact that management are posting on this forum as part of their strategy. I'll let you decide which posts are theirs.
If you have any questions about the ban, please speak to association. The email address is [email protected]
Remember, it doesn't matter a jot whether you agree with the ban or not. You will have to live with the consequences of being blacklisted if you break it.
That is the warning at the bottom of this page.
Already the replacement workers in HK are getting the picture.
Cathay's management can post here all they want, If and when you arrive in HK you will find out the truth.
If you know any of the 16 already here, I suggest you call them.
There is a recruitment ban on. It doesn't really matter what you think of it. It exists.
Join if you like, but don't say you were not aware of the possible consequences.
Email Ted Murphy, the President of IFALPA , if you have doubts about the bans validity.
Any U.S. Pilots breaking the ban will shortly have their names appearing on the jump seat protection list in N.America. So whether you agree with the ban or not, you will appear on that list if you break the ban. USALPA are firmly supporting the ban, as are all associations represented by IFALPA.
I do not condone intimidation or harassment of replacement workers but their are many around who do. Regardless, if you join, you WILL be blacklisted for life. Whether you agree with the ban or not.
Think carefully. Do you really want to join a company with an industrial relations record like Cathay?
Do you really want to be blacklisted?
We were blackmailed in 94,99, and in 2001, 50+ pilots were terminated for no reason.
This all happened because The AOA has no industrial muscle.
Anyone refusing an upgrade because of the ban will be fired. Anyone taking part in a strike, will be fired.
Anyone that so much as looks at the Chief Pilot the wrong way, will be fired.
Anyone looking the wrong way at a replacement worker, will be fired.
That's the way it is at Cathay.
I'm not saying we are unique, because we're not. I'm sure it happens at other operators.
I'm just asking you consider the consequences of coming to work at Cathay Pacific Airways.
I've seen posts claiming that pilots are leaving the union. That's true. But it's the senior guys that don't have the guts for a fight that are leaving. The young turks, the unions strength are stronger than ever. There are very smart people joining the committee. We have the support of professional pilots all over the world.
The airline is losing pilots a lot faster than the union., so there will be jobs galore shortly. The management will have to address the 49ers issue and the replacement workers issue because they are NOT going away. The fact that the rats have been running on this forum makes that very clear. The jobs will still be there when the dust settles. Management has made it very clear that refusing a job whilst the ban is in place does not go against you.
A secretary on the management floor is "dating" one of our S/O's. She knows for a fact that management are posting on this forum as part of their strategy. I'll let you decide which posts are theirs.
If you have any questions about the ban, please speak to association. The email address is [email protected]
Remember, it doesn't matter a jot whether you agree with the ban or not. You will have to live with the consequences of being blacklisted if you break it.
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Jumpseat,
To be honest if I was a CX prospect I would be extremely pleased if the posts above were from Cx Management. They clearly show support for the "newbie" and that they won't tolerate any nonsense from the irate blokes.
The way I see it is that I would much rather keep the man paying my salary (a rather good one at that) happy than a bunch of blokes that I will only have to contend with twice a month.
I personally know 3 blokes starting at Cx in July and I believe the total course size is around 40.
Ban or no ban... "they are a coming"
Which way next for the AOA? I personally hope, for my mates sake, that it is a sensible direction.
To be honest if I was a CX prospect I would be extremely pleased if the posts above were from Cx Management. They clearly show support for the "newbie" and that they won't tolerate any nonsense from the irate blokes.
The way I see it is that I would much rather keep the man paying my salary (a rather good one at that) happy than a bunch of blokes that I will only have to contend with twice a month.
I personally know 3 blokes starting at Cx in July and I believe the total course size is around 40.
Ban or no ban... "they are a coming"
Which way next for the AOA? I personally hope, for my mates sake, that it is a sensible direction.
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What was the dire warning that the bullies put on their posts 'take notice accordingly' or some other trite nonsense. Management post here, what a hoot. If they do it's to show support for the newbies with balls big enough to stand up to the AOA thought police also hard at work here. You are supported by USALPA, woohoo everything will be all right, when we win all the court cases and the International Labour Tribunal of the UN comes down against the Company then we can finally take off our rose coloured spectacles. Dream on. There is a ban, oh no, but only for newbies - AOA members can take their mates jobs and the increased perks that go with them without fear of rancour. God what a pathetic bunch. If you don't like CX then vote with your feet, stop bullying the new kids on the block.
