Looking for Asian Wannabees hoping to work in Hong Kong someday
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Looking for Asian Wannabees hoping to work in Hong Kong someday
Hi,
I am looking for asian self sponsored pilots who did NOT do their training via cadet schemes with airliners in Hong Kong.
As I am a overseas Chinese who paid the training myself I hope someday to go back to Hong Kong and to be able to work as a pilot there.
I am sure there are many like me....
I am looking for asian self sponsored pilots who did NOT do their training via cadet schemes with airliners in Hong Kong.
As I am a overseas Chinese who paid the training myself I hope someday to go back to Hong Kong and to be able to work as a pilot there.
I am sure there are many like me....
Join Date: Nov 2001
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I am of Indian origin, trying the same as you are, hopefully make it as an airline pilot get out of GA. Wonder if this CX ban will come thru and guys like us can get a life then.
I did my training in TX and working in CA.
I did my training in TX and working in CA.
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Ethnically I am Chinese, family is from Canton. However born elsewhere. But I would love to live in Hong Kong for a few years.
I'm currently flying in G.A too.
HOWEVER it seems there are people that are determined to ruin that dream for me, by labelling me a scab if I do (no I haven't taken a job at CX yet, I don't have the hours.. yet), while they take their own share of the pie by taking a upgrade and saying, BUT WE HAVE TOO..
That spells hypocrisy in any language you speak.
Sure there will be some who say it's not my fight. But then again when they've retired, fat dumb and happy, whos the one that will have to navigate this minefield and the c##p that they've left behind.
(Gets off soap box located in some G.A hangar)
I'm currently flying in G.A too.
HOWEVER it seems there are people that are determined to ruin that dream for me, by labelling me a scab if I do (no I haven't taken a job at CX yet, I don't have the hours.. yet), while they take their own share of the pie by taking a upgrade and saying, BUT WE HAVE TOO..
That spells hypocrisy in any language you speak. Sure there will be some who say it's not my fight. But then again when they've retired, fat dumb and happy, whos the one that will have to navigate this minefield and the c##p that they've left behind.
(Gets off soap box located in some G.A hangar)
Join Date: Mar 2002
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Cypher:
The "ban" is pure BS.
Figure: the people who ask you to forego a good job at CX are those who are already employed there....
It's a typical union strategy: ask others not to join the company so that the established members can leverage their claims...
Question: If it's such a bad company to work for, why are the current employees not leaving in droves? Answer: either they can't find a better employer or there is nowhere to go.
Conclusion: if CX is their best choice, it's got to be yours, too!
The "ban" is pure BS.
Figure: the people who ask you to forego a good job at CX are those who are already employed there....
It's a typical union strategy: ask others not to join the company so that the established members can leverage their claims...
Question: If it's such a bad company to work for, why are the current employees not leaving in droves? Answer: either they can't find a better employer or there is nowhere to go.
Conclusion: if CX is their best choice, it's got to be yours, too!
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Good thinking, whodunnit2.
And in 2 or 3 years time when the salary is half of what it is NOW, the job will still be attractive to other pilots, because they'll also say,
"Sure is a better job than I have in GA at the moment.
Pay is in a different leauge too...."!
And in 2 or 3 years time when the salary is half of what it is NOW, the job will still be attractive to other pilots, because they'll also say,
"Sure is a better job than I have in GA at the moment.
Pay is in a different leauge too...."!
Join Date: May 2002
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Ladies and Gentlemen,
You may be aware that the President of the HKAOA wrote to Mr. David Turnbull on 25th April 2002, asking that the Company agree to the commencement of industrial negotiations under the supervision of a mutually acceptable mediator.
Mr. Turnbull's reply, attached below, is self explanatory.
************************************************************ ******
3rd May, 2002
Captain Nigel Demery,
President,
Hong Kong Aircrew Officers Association,
5/F., Daily House,
35-37 Haiphong Road,
Tsimshatsui,
Kowloon,
Hong Kong.
Dear Captain Demery,
I refer to your letter of 25th April 2002 (ref: C1029/pmw/02/031).
The Company's position on the path to be taken towards rebuilding a
constructive relationship has been communicated to you several times. We
have always made it clear that the HKAOA must cease every aspect of its
industrial campaign which has been designed to damage the Company's
interests, and demonstrate a sincere willingness to work towards
promoting those interests, before any resumption of dialogue can be
considered.
Talk now of mediation cannot cloak the destructive actions your
Association has taken. You reneged on a three year agreement in pursuit
of excessive pay and provident fund demands, you instituted a disruption
plan that inconvenienced tens of thousands, you encouraged your members
to act unprofessionally, you launched a campaign to convince passengers
not to fly Cathay Pacific, and you rejected compromise even after the
tragic events of last September devastated the airline industry. Your
work-to-rule regime, your recruitment ban and your continued PR and
letter-writing campaign may be ineffective in practice, but they serve
to demonstrate the lack of sincerity in your proposal for mediation.
Perhaps the most contemptible aspect of your continued industrial
campaign is the effort to intimidate the recent joiners. I have seen
myself that your own HKAOA website is actively promoting this by
publishing their names, addresses and telephone numbers, as well as
using obscene language about these fellow pilots. I find it totally
unacceptable that you treat any employee of the Company in this way.
"Black-listing" fellow workers is an outdated industrial practice that
has no place in an association of professional pilots.
The position stated in your newsletters that you remain committed to
your original demands gives no encouragement that any form of
discussions could possibly be fruitful. Despite the very professional
facilitation by the Labour Department we failed to reach agreement on
these extreme demands last June, and the HKAOA abandoned the process in
favour of industrial action. Continuing to pursue such pay and benefit
objectives, and in such a manner, demonstrates a lack of understanding
of the economic realities of the airline industry.
Yours sincerely,
David Turnbull
Deputy Chairman & Chief Executive
DMT/pl
You may be aware that the President of the HKAOA wrote to Mr. David Turnbull on 25th April 2002, asking that the Company agree to the commencement of industrial negotiations under the supervision of a mutually acceptable mediator.
Mr. Turnbull's reply, attached below, is self explanatory.
************************************************************ ******
3rd May, 2002
Captain Nigel Demery,
President,
Hong Kong Aircrew Officers Association,
5/F., Daily House,
35-37 Haiphong Road,
Tsimshatsui,
Kowloon,
Hong Kong.
Dear Captain Demery,
I refer to your letter of 25th April 2002 (ref: C1029/pmw/02/031).
The Company's position on the path to be taken towards rebuilding a
constructive relationship has been communicated to you several times. We
have always made it clear that the HKAOA must cease every aspect of its
industrial campaign which has been designed to damage the Company's
interests, and demonstrate a sincere willingness to work towards
promoting those interests, before any resumption of dialogue can be
considered.
Talk now of mediation cannot cloak the destructive actions your
Association has taken. You reneged on a three year agreement in pursuit
of excessive pay and provident fund demands, you instituted a disruption
plan that inconvenienced tens of thousands, you encouraged your members
to act unprofessionally, you launched a campaign to convince passengers
not to fly Cathay Pacific, and you rejected compromise even after the
tragic events of last September devastated the airline industry. Your
work-to-rule regime, your recruitment ban and your continued PR and
letter-writing campaign may be ineffective in practice, but they serve
to demonstrate the lack of sincerity in your proposal for mediation.
Perhaps the most contemptible aspect of your continued industrial
campaign is the effort to intimidate the recent joiners. I have seen
myself that your own HKAOA website is actively promoting this by
publishing their names, addresses and telephone numbers, as well as
using obscene language about these fellow pilots. I find it totally
unacceptable that you treat any employee of the Company in this way.
"Black-listing" fellow workers is an outdated industrial practice that
has no place in an association of professional pilots.
The position stated in your newsletters that you remain committed to
your original demands gives no encouragement that any form of
discussions could possibly be fruitful. Despite the very professional
facilitation by the Labour Department we failed to reach agreement on
these extreme demands last June, and the HKAOA abandoned the process in
favour of industrial action. Continuing to pursue such pay and benefit
objectives, and in such a manner, demonstrates a lack of understanding
of the economic realities of the airline industry.
Yours sincerely,
David Turnbull
Deputy Chairman & Chief Executive
DMT/pl
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Was this part of the letter omitted:
However, it is quite acceptable to intimidate the pilot group,
by terminating 49 pilots at random, and is seen as a further
gesture, by this management, at promting a better relationship
between the Company and its employees.
?
However, it is quite acceptable to intimidate the pilot group,
by terminating 49 pilots at random, and is seen as a further
gesture, by this management, at promting a better relationship
between the Company and its employees.
?
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Here is my thought,
I can not see anything getting resolved until parties start talking so why not halt the industrial stuff, talk to management, try to resolve issues amicably. If no joy go back to your present position. At least this may get things solved, I am sure in interim whilst discussions take place your position won't be weakened much.
for background info
-I admit I am not fully conversant with all the issues
-I would love to join Cathay if given another chance, but would not join under a ban
whist talking about the ban, if people join under the ban it will just drag the situation out longer, and not lead to a very harmoneous and enjoyable work enviroment. So as I see it the ban should be droped or EVERYONE abides by it
I can not see anything getting resolved until parties start talking so why not halt the industrial stuff, talk to management, try to resolve issues amicably. If no joy go back to your present position. At least this may get things solved, I am sure in interim whilst discussions take place your position won't be weakened much.
for background info
-I admit I am not fully conversant with all the issues
-I would love to join Cathay if given another chance, but would not join under a ban
whist talking about the ban, if people join under the ban it will just drag the situation out longer, and not lead to a very harmoneous and enjoyable work enviroment. So as I see it the ban should be droped or EVERYONE abides by it
Join Date: May 2002
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that letter says it all
the tactics that the union is taking demonstrates that they are not interested in resolving this issue at all. would luv to hear what their demands were to get 49 drivers fired...
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Stripper,
No DT here..., I am not that smart and don't get paid that much.
Kaptin m,
I think most of us can agree that what happened to the 49 ( or 51 or 52) should not have taken place, however, I do not see how you can justify taking action against fellow pilots for trying to get a job. It seems to me that you are advocating the use of the same tactics you accuse your management of using, only in this case you want to use these tactics against your own kind, way to go Captain! Being subject to abuse is no excuse for abusing others.
The posting of the letter is only intended to show that there is always more than one side to every story.
V1, rotate...here we go
No DT here..., I am not that smart and don't get paid that much.
Kaptin m,
I think most of us can agree that what happened to the 49 ( or 51 or 52) should not have taken place, however, I do not see how you can justify taking action against fellow pilots for trying to get a job. It seems to me that you are advocating the use of the same tactics you accuse your management of using, only in this case you want to use these tactics against your own kind, way to go Captain! Being subject to abuse is no excuse for abusing others.
The posting of the letter is only intended to show that there is always more than one side to every story.
V1, rotate...here we go
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Funnily enough, I lost a position in a G.A company like this. I'd done nothing wrong, paid for a instructors rating and was told you'll get work. Low and behold I get ditched. Think anyone gave a rats @rse?? Think we should put a ban in place there too?
Yeah and like thats ever going to work. Some other pilot who needs the break will take it. I just had to move on. Hard I know, but somethings work for the better. And things got better...
I'm sure there are thousands of stories like this in G.A.
No I don't support what CX management was purporting, but there must be other ways to fight back than firing your hate back at a group that, eventually you will need their support. Apart from helping to create a dangerous situation on the flight deck, as people said, it will fragment the pilot body. One who supports management, and the other who support the HKAOA. Management gets away laughting as the AOA is tied up trying to now fight two parties, management and the new hires... who no doubt may even form their own union.. hypothetically..
Now don't get me wrong, I think it's bloody awesome the way that the union has supported the 49ers, but why not support them until they are able to find new careers?
Yeah and like thats ever going to work. Some other pilot who needs the break will take it. I just had to move on. Hard I know, but somethings work for the better. And things got better...
I'm sure there are thousands of stories like this in G.A.
No I don't support what CX management was purporting, but there must be other ways to fight back than firing your hate back at a group that, eventually you will need their support. Apart from helping to create a dangerous situation on the flight deck, as people said, it will fragment the pilot body. One who supports management, and the other who support the HKAOA. Management gets away laughting as the AOA is tied up trying to now fight two parties, management and the new hires... who no doubt may even form their own union.. hypothetically..
Now don't get me wrong, I think it's bloody awesome the way that the union has supported the 49ers, but why not support them until they are able to find new careers?
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I really think a lot of you guy's are missing the point!!
We are not only fighting to save our own career's which are rapidly going down hill but also the future pilots who join CX!!!
Two of my Ansett friends who applied and were successful have been offered start dates, both advised CX they would not start until the ban was removed, CX happily agreed to this.
So just hang in there and wait till this mess is over. Surely waiting a few month and joining on a better contract is far better than being ostrised for the rest of your career's.
HUSTLER
We are not only fighting to save our own career's which are rapidly going down hill but also the future pilots who join CX!!!
Two of my Ansett friends who applied and were successful have been offered start dates, both advised CX they would not start until the ban was removed, CX happily agreed to this.
So just hang in there and wait till this mess is over. Surely waiting a few month and joining on a better contract is far better than being ostrised for the rest of your career's.
HUSTLER
Join Date: May 2002
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I think you are missing the point. This so called ban, which does not apply to AOA members accepting upgrades etc, but only to new joiners is symptomatic of the disunion. I have read elsewhere why you must take the promotions etc, sit in the 49ers seats whilst still warm, and the responses disgust me. You expect the struggling new people to suffer, they are not taking the jobs of the 49ers, YOU ALREADY HAVE you hypocritical pack of bullies. Fighting to save your careers, is that the same as when B Scales was introduced or ASL? Why don't you look at the facts, this is a great company whose hand was forced by the disunion, result - 50 odd great folk out of work - with little or no hope of re-instatement. You have stuffed around the company, its workers and the travelling public for eight tedious years, to what effect? Zip, zero, zilch or even minus. My goodness what a great job the committee has done I must vote for them and give them more latitude to get even more jobs available for new people.
The only posts that have appeared here from people who have turned Cathay down seemed to indicate that the people concerned felt they had no chance of joining once the ban was over.
Hustler, if your mates (and chances are they'd be my mates too) have realy been told by managment that they can wait till after the ban is over and will then be offered employment, could you ask one of them to post here and confirm it?
Hustler, if your mates (and chances are they'd be my mates too) have realy been told by managment that they can wait till after the ban is over and will then be offered employment, could you ask one of them to post here and confirm it?
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Wiz. I have no information on your request, far too small a cog in the wheel. I can say with certainty, courses are filling and the quality of applicants is of the usual high standard of those coming to CX. Miserable time isn't it. But better if you have a secure job and regular good income.
Shorty,
AT THE MOMENT I have the luxury of both. RECENTLY I had neither. That's why I think the whole situation is such a tragedy. To have to chose between defying a Union (however misguided) and staying unemployed would be heartbreaking. That's why it is so unfair to put people in that position.
AT THE MOMENT I have the luxury of both. RECENTLY I had neither. That's why I think the whole situation is such a tragedy. To have to chose between defying a Union (however misguided) and staying unemployed would be heartbreaking. That's why it is so unfair to put people in that position.