Upcoming vote for cc.
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Upcoming vote for cc.
I know nobody is happy with rh's email about our pay review.
Is this really the best time to talk about cc?
-Company is barely out of the red ink.
-Oil prices are getting higher and higher, especially with a us- Syrian war looming.
Wouldn't it be better to bide our time and wait till we're back to our typical 3-4 billion hkd profit and they are not watching every kg of jet fuel?
It's important to act for our interests, but the timing of action is just as important, not just a re-action to a silly email.
Just a thought.
Is this really the best time to talk about cc?
-Company is barely out of the red ink.
-Oil prices are getting higher and higher, especially with a us- Syrian war looming.
Wouldn't it be better to bide our time and wait till we're back to our typical 3-4 billion hkd profit and they are not watching every kg of jet fuel?
It's important to act for our interests, but the timing of action is just as important, not just a re-action to a silly email.
Just a thought.
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I know they will always have a reason not to pay us more, but wouldn't you agree that there have been better times in the recent past where we should've pressed for our rights/needs?
CC isn't hard to do, but you might remember that last time it didn't end too well for about 50 guys.
(some of them my friends, I have been around long enough for that...)
CC is a heavy tool in my opinion, that should be used only in the best possible circumstances (i.e. timing) , not just because 'we are pissed off'.
It's business, not personal.
CC isn't hard to do, but you might remember that last time it didn't end too well for about 50 guys.
(some of them my friends, I have been around long enough for that...)
CC is a heavy tool in my opinion, that should be used only in the best possible circumstances (i.e. timing) , not just because 'we are pissed off'.
It's business, not personal.
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Your post is likely to elicit a strong rebuke in the face of a laundry list of items that CX refuses to even meet on. Though the latest memo's have been a bit more conciliatory in tone, the list of grievances is quite long. As far as the "red ink" goes, read the quarterly filing. Employees are not required to subsidize vast expenditures on a Cargo Terminal that will produce vast profits to CX (which is great, we want our employer making lots of money) that said, we the employees aren't responsible to pay for this terminal (which we are de facto doing by them using a 24M profit as reason for no pay rise, but that was precipitated by huge cargo terminal spending) unless of course we are going to be given a DIRECT profit share from it's operation.
We want CX to be successful, we also believe that CX should pay market rates as dictated by comparison to our peers, and according to local pressures (i.e inflation)
It is our hope that cooler heads prevail, upcoming meetings are fruitful, and we can continue working hard for our mutual success.
We want CX to be successful, we also believe that CX should pay market rates as dictated by comparison to our peers, and according to local pressures (i.e inflation)
It is our hope that cooler heads prevail, upcoming meetings are fruitful, and we can continue working hard for our mutual success.
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Same old accounting tricks, no doubt. But things are still not as rosy as they have been.
I'm sure some people are pissed off I am writing this here, but I can feel the old 'war machine' gaining steam.
It's hard to turn things around once things have gone too far.
Testosterone flowing and peer pressure.
I don't want the aoa to use this chip at the wrong time, when it could be use so much better in the future.
peace y'all
I'm sure some people are pissed off I am writing this here, but I can feel the old 'war machine' gaining steam.
It's hard to turn things around once things have gone too far.
Testosterone flowing and peer pressure.
I don't want the aoa to use this chip at the wrong time, when it could be use so much better in the future.
peace y'all
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What is wrong with CC ?
Why do you concern yourself with strict CC ? The company doesn't concern itself with the ever increasing cost of living for its employees . they have never negotiated in good faith. They pay me a salary and forced a contract down my throat, no negotiation! Just sign or be fired ultimatum .
So I have no problem with doing only what is required of me in my contract, after all, that is what they mandated . They decided on my T&C, they dictated my pay , so do not expect me to go above and beyond what they forced on me
I'm all for anything that will force them to negotiate, I could say good faith negotiations but we all know that ain't going to happen ever .
So I have no problem with doing only what is required of me in my contract, after all, that is what they mandated . They decided on my T&C, they dictated my pay , so do not expect me to go above and beyond what they forced on me
I'm all for anything that will force them to negotiate, I could say good faith negotiations but we all know that ain't going to happen ever .
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It is my experience that the AOA GC we have now are very level headed, and will not irrationally put us in a difficult position. If we do arrive there, it will have been after MUCH good faith on our part.
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Please consider
I just spoke to a former CX executive, just to get a feel for whether the timing is right for a Pilot pay increase. I thought his experience from previous employment within the Swire Kingdom would provide an interesting background. He advised me that;
CX Executive Management Salaries - These shall remain exorbitantly high due to the difficulty in attracting quality managers. Should a sudden glut of available executives come on the market then management will be happy to consider a pay reduction.
CX Executive Management Bonuses - The current bonus scheme is not something that the executives want, however the shareholders have insisted that management are remunerated with these very high rewards. Management emphasises that this is not something they insist on receiving, but they are grateful for the shareholders caring attitude and thank them.
Pilot pay rises - Salary scales should be capped and not increased due to the unstableness of the regions finances, plus the newer pilots coming through the system are generally younger than the older less flexible Pilots and do not require large salaries to fund selfish indulgent lifestyles.
At the end of the day a Pilot flies not for financial gain, but for the love of flying, for the the feeling of freedom soaring through the sky, and the fulfilment of taking his passengers aboard his shiny jet and getting them safely to their destination. This is something that cannot be quantified, and certainly any genuine Pilot would not carry out this task just for money.
'With economic uncertainty comes financial responsibility and accountability to the Board'
CX Executive Management Salaries - These shall remain exorbitantly high due to the difficulty in attracting quality managers. Should a sudden glut of available executives come on the market then management will be happy to consider a pay reduction.
CX Executive Management Bonuses - The current bonus scheme is not something that the executives want, however the shareholders have insisted that management are remunerated with these very high rewards. Management emphasises that this is not something they insist on receiving, but they are grateful for the shareholders caring attitude and thank them.
Pilot pay rises - Salary scales should be capped and not increased due to the unstableness of the regions finances, plus the newer pilots coming through the system are generally younger than the older less flexible Pilots and do not require large salaries to fund selfish indulgent lifestyles.
At the end of the day a Pilot flies not for financial gain, but for the love of flying, for the the feeling of freedom soaring through the sky, and the fulfilment of taking his passengers aboard his shiny jet and getting them safely to their destination. This is something that cannot be quantified, and certainly any genuine Pilot would not carry out this task just for money.
'With economic uncertainty comes financial responsibility and accountability to the Board'
Last edited by 004wercras; 28th Aug 2013 at 02:22.
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CC is a good thing
Ok: so consider this.
You run a business, you employ 100 or so people in a travelling salesman business. Let's imagine one of your workers comes up to you one day and says.
" Boss, I just wanted to say to you that I have decided to work strictly in accordance with my contract.
I am going to turn up at the start time you have told me, not a minute earlier, I am going to not be contactable after I have finished my working day.
I will do my job to the best of my ability exactly as you have described in the job description manual.
On my days off I will not be contactable on my phone because I enjoy my time off with my friends and family and need my rest. "
As the boss, you would say: " That is great, can you ask all your other colleagues to work in accordance with their contract? It is great, thanks. I can now plan my business knowing that I have such a good employee. "
SINCE WHEN IT IS A THREAT TO FULFILL YOUR CONTRACT ?
MANY BUSINESSES WOULD BE THRILLED TO KNOW YOU WERE SUCH A GOOD EMPLOYEE, BUT NOT CX.
We get paid in accordance with our contract. Don't fall into the trap of worrying about this and that, just do your part and watch the whole thing unravel. It won't take long for the cracks to be exposed in the system and then we will ALL BENEFIT.
You run a business, you employ 100 or so people in a travelling salesman business. Let's imagine one of your workers comes up to you one day and says.
" Boss, I just wanted to say to you that I have decided to work strictly in accordance with my contract.
I am going to turn up at the start time you have told me, not a minute earlier, I am going to not be contactable after I have finished my working day.
I will do my job to the best of my ability exactly as you have described in the job description manual.
On my days off I will not be contactable on my phone because I enjoy my time off with my friends and family and need my rest. "
As the boss, you would say: " That is great, can you ask all your other colleagues to work in accordance with their contract? It is great, thanks. I can now plan my business knowing that I have such a good employee. "
SINCE WHEN IT IS A THREAT TO FULFILL YOUR CONTRACT ?
MANY BUSINESSES WOULD BE THRILLED TO KNOW YOU WERE SUCH A GOOD EMPLOYEE, BUT NOT CX.
We get paid in accordance with our contract. Don't fall into the trap of worrying about this and that, just do your part and watch the whole thing unravel. It won't take long for the cracks to be exposed in the system and then we will ALL BENEFIT.
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Again, I am for action, but can anyone tell me why now is an advantageous time for us to be doing cc and not when the company is more profitable.
Another good reason to wait would be that the I-cadets are upgrading to FO and with their new-found rating and experience will be excellent candidates for airlines that do give full housing allowance, giving cx a double reason to give in to a pay rise, when they will start leaving.
Another good reason to wait would be that the I-cadets are upgrading to FO and with their new-found rating and experience will be excellent candidates for airlines that do give full housing allowance, giving cx a double reason to give in to a pay rise, when they will start leaving.
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Now is an advantageous time, as crews are not divided and the motion is to have a pay review with pilots taking part. If CX executives can demonstrate to the AOA negotiating team why there can be no pay rise, then fine. At least sit down and discuss.
A lot of people still answer the phone and work G days, these are the persons preventing a pay rise. If ac aren't crewed and no one works G days that will bring management to the table.
A lot of people still answer the phone and work G days, these are the persons preventing a pay rise. If ac aren't crewed and no one works G days that will bring management to the table.
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And you wonder why they treat us with disrespect and contempt...
Gutless victims with a severe case of Stockholm syndrome is a fitting description Nothing good will ever come from them without a fight. It's the only MO they know.
So go to your bank and get a line of credit, free up some liquidity and enjoy your last few G days cause there's severe turbulence ahead.
Gutless victims with a severe case of Stockholm syndrome is a fitting description Nothing good will ever come from them without a fight. It's the only MO they know.
So go to your bank and get a line of credit, free up some liquidity and enjoy your last few G days cause there's severe turbulence ahead.
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004wercras
I disagree. The mantra of a 'tight market for talent' has been trotted out by the executive class for years. Consider these other factors that lie behind their obscene packages.
1. Globalisation has led to medium and low skilled jobs moving to the cheapest markets. The capital(lets call the managers that as that's what they represent) have not redistributed this dividend to the labour and it could be argued the shareholders. This has led to ever increasing rewards for the capital at the expense of the labour. There are plenty of studies out there that look at the non Anglo saxon economies executive remuneration packages; which mostly show the same performance for much lower packages. ie Germany or Japan.
2. Board capture. The very executives who make up the board are from the same executive class who manage the company. Is there a shareholder vote on pay at Swire? Ask yourself why. It is a revolving door of self interest that ensures the 'talent' pays itself ever higher salaries. Imagine if we had a board of pilots that set pilot salaries at Cathay. They would go through the roof.
Onto the case of the helpless managers who have a 'current bonus scheme [that] is not something that the executives want'. Fine. Donate it to charity. Build an orphanage, set the example and show some LEADERSHIP by setting the example. I highlight the word leadership, because leaders set the example, in behaviour and by extension pay.
You mentioned the 'self indulgent lifestyle of the older pilots'. You can lay this challenge to your ex Swire manager friend. If I don't accept a payrise for the rest of my career then he can get his mates who run Swire to not accept one either. According to him they don't want it anyway so it should be easy.
I disagree. The mantra of a 'tight market for talent' has been trotted out by the executive class for years. Consider these other factors that lie behind their obscene packages.
1. Globalisation has led to medium and low skilled jobs moving to the cheapest markets. The capital(lets call the managers that as that's what they represent) have not redistributed this dividend to the labour and it could be argued the shareholders. This has led to ever increasing rewards for the capital at the expense of the labour. There are plenty of studies out there that look at the non Anglo saxon economies executive remuneration packages; which mostly show the same performance for much lower packages. ie Germany or Japan.
2. Board capture. The very executives who make up the board are from the same executive class who manage the company. Is there a shareholder vote on pay at Swire? Ask yourself why. It is a revolving door of self interest that ensures the 'talent' pays itself ever higher salaries. Imagine if we had a board of pilots that set pilot salaries at Cathay. They would go through the roof.
Onto the case of the helpless managers who have a 'current bonus scheme [that] is not something that the executives want'. Fine. Donate it to charity. Build an orphanage, set the example and show some LEADERSHIP by setting the example. I highlight the word leadership, because leaders set the example, in behaviour and by extension pay.
You mentioned the 'self indulgent lifestyle of the older pilots'. You can lay this challenge to your ex Swire manager friend. If I don't accept a payrise for the rest of my career then he can get his mates who run Swire to not accept one either. According to him they don't want it anyway so it should be easy.
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Rule number ONE!
After the standard call to CC on arrival.
The next time you communicate with the company should be at sign on or after reserve has started, turn your phone off and forget your computer.
The amount of people that bitch and moan about rosters because they checked the computer or answered a call while off duty astounds me.
After the standard call to CC on arrival.
The next time you communicate with the company should be at sign on or after reserve has started, turn your phone off and forget your computer.
The amount of people that bitch and moan about rosters because they checked the computer or answered a call while off duty astounds me.
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The next time you communicate with the company should be at sign on or after reserve has started, turn your phone off and forget your computer.
The amount of people that bitch and moan about rosters because they checked the computer or answered a call while off duty astounds me.
The amount of people that bitch and moan about rosters because they checked the computer or answered a call while off duty astounds me.
I simply cannot believe that people still do this! Are they just stupid, or have they really not been shown that there is a better way?
edited to add:
Mr Claus: was 004 too subtle for you, or for me?
Last edited by China Flyer; 28th Aug 2013 at 04:57.
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My Ex Management friend also informs me that should the pesky Pilot group keep pushing for unjustified pay rises then action will be considered. This could include, but not be limited to;
- Pilots being banned from wearing CX lanyards
- Pilots being made to wear underwear on long haul flights
- Pilots being forced to write a Swire Creed 1000 times on the boardroom blackboard
- Pilots not being allowed to carry onboard packed lunches on short haul flights due to weight restrictions and OHS being enforced
- Pilots not being allowed to 'post comments on social media or pornographic websites' for a period of 48 hours
- Mainline Pilots will undergo a 14 day ban on taking the piss out of Management by engaging in jokes about their proven undersized genitalia
- Those who maintain '4 Bars' will be made to spoon with cadets on away trips for a period of 30 days.
Also at present the Consultants are advising that CX set up a 'negotiation team', say 49 of the over 2000 Pilots, along with senior management. Transparent discussions can be undertaken in good faith with the sole purpose of settling these rumblings in a fair and caring manner.
'With responsibility comes accountability'
- Pilots being banned from wearing CX lanyards
- Pilots being made to wear underwear on long haul flights
- Pilots being forced to write a Swire Creed 1000 times on the boardroom blackboard
- Pilots not being allowed to carry onboard packed lunches on short haul flights due to weight restrictions and OHS being enforced
- Pilots not being allowed to 'post comments on social media or pornographic websites' for a period of 48 hours
- Mainline Pilots will undergo a 14 day ban on taking the piss out of Management by engaging in jokes about their proven undersized genitalia
- Those who maintain '4 Bars' will be made to spoon with cadets on away trips for a period of 30 days.
Also at present the Consultants are advising that CX set up a 'negotiation team', say 49 of the over 2000 Pilots, along with senior management. Transparent discussions can be undertaken in good faith with the sole purpose of settling these rumblings in a fair and caring manner.
'With responsibility comes accountability'
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I think you're right China Flyer, I will never claim to be the sharpest knife in the draw.
Have to agree with SMOC. The number of times I have been stuck in Anchorage(guess what I fly...) and a guy complains about the 4 roster changes he has had since he has been there. Further inquiry usually reveals that he calls CC or checks his computer as soon as he sees that flashing red light on his phone.
Guys. Turn up at your rostered duty time. You will find that you stop getting the constant changes after a while. They know who are the ones you always check.
Have to agree with SMOC. The number of times I have been stuck in Anchorage(guess what I fly...) and a guy complains about the 4 roster changes he has had since he has been there. Further inquiry usually reveals that he calls CC or checks his computer as soon as he sees that flashing red light on his phone.
Guys. Turn up at your rostered duty time. You will find that you stop getting the constant changes after a while. They know who are the ones you always check.
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Well, CC would be much more effective if we were all working G days and answering phones until now.
Imagine the company being 10 percent understaffed thanks to our goodwill.
All of a sudden, nobody is contactable anymore...
Then we would get the 10 percent missing staff, or if not possible in such a short timeframe, 10 percent payrise.
Imagine the company being 10 percent understaffed thanks to our goodwill.
All of a sudden, nobody is contactable anymore...
Then we would get the 10 percent missing staff, or if not possible in such a short timeframe, 10 percent payrise.