PC/RT
A mate said the plan is eventually to do the PC, a pass results in the RT becoming redundant and therefore reserve! An unsatisfactory PC has you doing a RT (with a STC) so it's PC/PC
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And I suppose you still believe in the Easter Bunny too??
Do you really think that the crew control phone call after a successful PC isn't going to result in a "not normally" "roster disruption" roster change
The RT forms part of the the regulatory "package" - there are a number of boxes that have to be ticked over a three year cycle and there is no way they can all be done during the PC sessions. I can't see that changing, despite CX's penchant for cost cutting.
I can roll my eyes too - see?
I can roll my eyes too - see?
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Because at the moment half the RT is spent practicing stuff to do in the PC the following day. With the new format I doubt you will be doing anything more than once. The entire 4 hours of RT will be spent doing stuff you did not do in the PC.
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The entire 4 hours of RT will be spent doing stuff you did not do in the PC.
You see, in typical CX fashion, they failed to fully implement the new way of doing things. The original program, was a "no fail" program, basically "train to proficiency".
When you realize that, then it all makes sense why the PC comes before the RT. But CX could not possibly have such a program, the airline lacks the corporate culture to support it.
Unless you fail your PC, in which case you would do the stuff you failed.
Funnily enough, most people can actually do the job quite well.
A large part of the RT session is currently wasted practicing stuff that most people don't actually need to practice to pass the PC. The whole idea of putting the PC first is to get it out of the way and then use the RT to do something that might actually provide more benefit.
Last edited by BuzzBox; 5th Dec 2012 at 01:32.
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I don't know it will be THAT much of a big deal.
So long as one doesn't mind saying in the debrief "yep....that's what I look like after not flying for a few weeks, not practicing in the sim, and being thrown in for a check ride" and doesn't worry too much about the rough edges or being rusty for the first 20 minutes of the check.
It is silly to expect someone to be wholly proficient when off for a while and without practice--but safe and proficient are not the same thing. So long as you don't get wrapped up over something that is not your fault I think this won't matter much.
"Oh, you wanted me to be GOOD--I see....give me a couple minutes."
So long as one doesn't mind saying in the debrief "yep....that's what I look like after not flying for a few weeks, not practicing in the sim, and being thrown in for a check ride" and doesn't worry too much about the rough edges or being rusty for the first 20 minutes of the check.
It is silly to expect someone to be wholly proficient when off for a while and without practice--but safe and proficient are not the same thing. So long as you don't get wrapped up over something that is not your fault I think this won't matter much.
"Oh, you wanted me to be GOOD--I see....give me a couple minutes."
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If you can manage to FAIL a PC, then frankly I don't want to share an aircraft with you nor would I put the lives of my family in your hands going on holiday.
PCs aren't rocket science. Sure we won't fly them to a nice polished standard but to fail one you have to be pretty bad really, or at least be having an unacceptably bad day.
PCs aren't rocket science. Sure we won't fly them to a nice polished standard but to fail one you have to be pretty bad really, or at least be having an unacceptably bad day.
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geh065,
people aren't afraid of failing in the traditional sense of not being able to physically operate the aircraft safely, we are afraid of being marked down because our "mouth music" is not word perfect.
For all these years, we've had a RT to brush up on our mouth music before the PC.
people aren't afraid of failing in the traditional sense of not being able to physically operate the aircraft safely, we are afraid of being marked down because our "mouth music" is not word perfect.
For all these years, we've had a RT to brush up on our mouth music before the PC.
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Or...... with 5 mins spent looking in the manual we could just get the mouth music right.....all by ourselves!
So am I now a brown-noser, or just a professional with 5 mins spare?
So am I now a brown-noser, or just a professional with 5 mins spare?
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Not at all White None. I would assume that everybody will do exactly that. The point is that learning from the manual is not normally a perfect substitute for actually doing it in the aircraft/sim in real time.
Remember, we're not concerned about being safe, there should be no problem there. CX want more. They want "polish", even in the event of an engine fire.
Remember, we're not concerned about being safe, there should be no problem there. CX want more. They want "polish", even in the event of an engine fire.
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we are afraid of being marked down because our "mouth music" is not word perfect.
STP
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Silberfuchs, I take your point but isn't there a -8F IPT? Also, when was the last time you flew a V1 cut at maximum crosswind on your PC? How do the memory items differ between the -400 and the -8F for things like an engine fire? I was led to believe they're pretty much the same. Finally, if the ECL is anything like the ECAM, isn't it "read-and-do"?
STP
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You should always be proficient and ready to do a PC, at any point in time - up to standard at least.
Doing the PC before the RT - gives the opportunity to "train" the naturally weaker areas that were shown during the PC, at the RT session.. If used in the right manner - it could be an efficient way of using two sim days.
Doing the PC before the RT - gives the opportunity to "train" the naturally weaker areas that were shown during the PC, at the RT session.. If used in the right manner - it could be an efficient way of using two sim days.
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Aces ?
Yeager
Judging by your handle I'm guessing you have never made a mistake during a sim.
As for the rest of us mortals, I've taken the course from the 400 to the ECL driven airplanes. The courses are getting shorter every year. As such you are required to do just as you suggest and train YOURSELF and partner in the IPT or cafeteria etc. That is not a replacement for actual training. While good for practice once procedures and mouth music are known, it is not good for pilots new to the machine. Nor is it good for pilots who have been off for awhile. The books just don't back it up. Add to this the CPT is done from home now and you really are training in isolation. Home study may work but the training department should encourage live feedback and pier communication to ensure the info is understood.
So what happens is SOP/Convention creep. That's where self taught pilots begin to add or delete things and gradually come up with their own slight take on SOPs and conventions. I've seen it in line guys, checkers and CPs. None of it unsafe or even worth mentioning at most airlines, but a 3 here for sure.
Is this a problem ? Well in an airline with big picture thinking and checkers with the experience to see real problems as opposed to interpretations of convention, then NO . In an airline where the minutiae and pet SOP crowd dominate and subsequently good pilots' careers and health are the casualties, then yes it is a problem.
Having had real emergencies in aircraft and talking to others who have also had serious situations and emergencies, it goes extremely well, but the mouth music etc. may not be perfect. Does the training kick in ? Absolutely !
The other problem is the SOPs themselves, while they are getting better, there are still holes big enough for interpretation to creep in. We need to write a tighter script, so that when learning a new airplane, cockpit ECL or whatever, you can reference specific written mouth music in the manual, not buried in best practice, power points or any of the many locations needed to be researched to put it all together.
If you want anal pedantic perfection then put it in the books. If it's not in the books then allow some latitude with a pleasant comment in the de-brief.
Cheers Fly Safe
FG
Judging by your handle I'm guessing you have never made a mistake during a sim.
As for the rest of us mortals, I've taken the course from the 400 to the ECL driven airplanes. The courses are getting shorter every year. As such you are required to do just as you suggest and train YOURSELF and partner in the IPT or cafeteria etc. That is not a replacement for actual training. While good for practice once procedures and mouth music are known, it is not good for pilots new to the machine. Nor is it good for pilots who have been off for awhile. The books just don't back it up. Add to this the CPT is done from home now and you really are training in isolation. Home study may work but the training department should encourage live feedback and pier communication to ensure the info is understood.
So what happens is SOP/Convention creep. That's where self taught pilots begin to add or delete things and gradually come up with their own slight take on SOPs and conventions. I've seen it in line guys, checkers and CPs. None of it unsafe or even worth mentioning at most airlines, but a 3 here for sure.
Is this a problem ? Well in an airline with big picture thinking and checkers with the experience to see real problems as opposed to interpretations of convention, then NO . In an airline where the minutiae and pet SOP crowd dominate and subsequently good pilots' careers and health are the casualties, then yes it is a problem.
Having had real emergencies in aircraft and talking to others who have also had serious situations and emergencies, it goes extremely well, but the mouth music etc. may not be perfect. Does the training kick in ? Absolutely !
The other problem is the SOPs themselves, while they are getting better, there are still holes big enough for interpretation to creep in. We need to write a tighter script, so that when learning a new airplane, cockpit ECL or whatever, you can reference specific written mouth music in the manual, not buried in best practice, power points or any of the many locations needed to be researched to put it all together.
If you want anal pedantic perfection then put it in the books. If it's not in the books then allow some latitude with a pleasant comment in the de-brief.
Cheers Fly Safe
FG
Last edited by Five Green; 12th Apr 2013 at 16:55. Reason: Syntax police
