Air pollution in HKG
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Air pollution in HKG
Interested to get an overview on how the air quality (or lack thereof) in HKG affects the families of expats, and the expats themselves living in HKG. There seems to be quite some commotion on Prune from a couple of people who regularly harp on about it. Is it really shaving years off your live(s)?
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Roxy C.
I lived in Hong Kong for close to 11 years. At first I was sick a great deal, probably because I partied to hard. After settling down, getting married, and having children the issue of the air quality (an oxymoron if there ever was one) in Hong Kong came front and center. I lived on a steady diet of Actifed and Flixonase in order to keep my sinusitus at bay. It worked for the most part, but there were times that the pollution was too great for my system to cope. Then there my kids. As soon as they were old enough they too lived on a steady supply of cough syrups and sinus medicine. Not a day went by when they weren't taking one or the other. The final straw was when we had to take one of them for a chest x-ray, only to be told by the doctor that he was going to be asthmatic - both of them were in fact going to be. So we moved to Thailand, the land of smiles and clean air (not Bangkok of course) and the symptoms for all of us disappeared immediately. Amazing how quickly things turned around.
Not everyone is going to experience the same effects from the poor air quality in Hong Kong. However, if you or your children are susceptible to air pollution it is not a great place to live.
I lived in Hong Kong for close to 11 years. At first I was sick a great deal, probably because I partied to hard. After settling down, getting married, and having children the issue of the air quality (an oxymoron if there ever was one) in Hong Kong came front and center. I lived on a steady diet of Actifed and Flixonase in order to keep my sinusitus at bay. It worked for the most part, but there were times that the pollution was too great for my system to cope. Then there my kids. As soon as they were old enough they too lived on a steady supply of cough syrups and sinus medicine. Not a day went by when they weren't taking one or the other. The final straw was when we had to take one of them for a chest x-ray, only to be told by the doctor that he was going to be asthmatic - both of them were in fact going to be. So we moved to Thailand, the land of smiles and clean air (not Bangkok of course) and the symptoms for all of us disappeared immediately. Amazing how quickly things turned around.
Not everyone is going to experience the same effects from the poor air quality in Hong Kong. However, if you or your children are susceptible to air pollution it is not a great place to live.
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I never get sick and I jog and hike outside regularly. That's not to say that the air quality isn't &#)$ but it does effect everyone differently. Worst for me is scratchy eyes once in awhile.
We all know it's crap, it's not going to get better, so deal with it or leave. Haven't we been over this a million times on here?
We all know it's crap, it's not going to get better, so deal with it or leave. Haven't we been over this a million times on here?
Roxy,
it's bad, and getting worse every year (except for a brief respite during the financial crisis). After a few years of putting up with it our family left with no reservations. Our kids are quite young, and we thought - given the abundant evidence of what these levels and types of pollutants do to you - that it was madness to wait until some symptoms started to manifest themselves before we got our family out.
We acted not based on symptoms you can see now, but on what the future holds for our health. Unless we went into Central or Kowloon we didn't actually suffer too much (eyes, throat, chest), but that is a poor indicator of what this sh!t is doing to you. Remember that not only are the levels very, very high (the authorities refused to use an index used by western countries) it is also the types of pollutants here. I am sure you will do adequate due diligence on your prospective HK employer - for you and your family's sake I would think doing the same level of research on the air quality here would be at least as important.
There are plenty of expats who don't really notice the air - and exercise/hike etc in it to their heart's content. That's fine, but it in no way diminishes the very real risk to your life and health that this air is exposing you to. It may "effect everybody differently" on a day to day basis, but certainly not after years/decades of exposure.
Finally, ask yourself why you would be willing to bring your family an yourself here and accept it. Unless you have previous HK ties, the answer is almost certainly going to be one thing - money. Where do YOUR values lie, no one elses. Are you prepared to expose your family to the clear and indisputable risk to fly a shiny jet?
it's bad, and getting worse every year (except for a brief respite during the financial crisis). After a few years of putting up with it our family left with no reservations. Our kids are quite young, and we thought - given the abundant evidence of what these levels and types of pollutants do to you - that it was madness to wait until some symptoms started to manifest themselves before we got our family out.
We acted not based on symptoms you can see now, but on what the future holds for our health. Unless we went into Central or Kowloon we didn't actually suffer too much (eyes, throat, chest), but that is a poor indicator of what this sh!t is doing to you. Remember that not only are the levels very, very high (the authorities refused to use an index used by western countries) it is also the types of pollutants here. I am sure you will do adequate due diligence on your prospective HK employer - for you and your family's sake I would think doing the same level of research on the air quality here would be at least as important.
There are plenty of expats who don't really notice the air - and exercise/hike etc in it to their heart's content. That's fine, but it in no way diminishes the very real risk to your life and health that this air is exposing you to. It may "effect everybody differently" on a day to day basis, but certainly not after years/decades of exposure.
Finally, ask yourself why you would be willing to bring your family an yourself here and accept it. Unless you have previous HK ties, the answer is almost certainly going to be one thing - money. Where do YOUR values lie, no one elses. Are you prepared to expose your family to the clear and indisputable risk to fly a shiny jet?
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AIR POLLUTION IN CHINA - China | Facts and Details
With Beijing admitting to 500,000 deaths related to pollution a year, lets assume for a minute they are right. THat is the equivalent of everyone in Geelong, Sunshine coast and townsville dying every year from pollution. In another country it might raise eyebrows.
With Beijing admitting to 500,000 deaths related to pollution a year, lets assume for a minute they are right. THat is the equivalent of everyone in Geelong, Sunshine coast and townsville dying every year from pollution. In another country it might raise eyebrows.
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I actually like the pollution ... nice sunsets .... don't get to sunburnt ... get to sleep in a little longer .... good excuse to hang out in bars and tie one on.
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THat is the equivalent of everyone in Geelong, Sunshine coast and townsville dying every year from pollution. In another country it might raise eyebrows.
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If you are single, then you can make this choice with the knowledge that the only one you are harming (and you will harm yourself) is you. I think it unconscionable that any man would bring his wife and kids to live full time in this environment. They wouldn't really have a choice in the matter. Your kids will suffer the most, as their bodies are growing and adapting....and the effect from some REALLY NASTY SH*T will follow them their whole lives. Don't doubt it.
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Surprisingly ( for PPRUNE ) all good, well thought out, informative posts...except of course Tosco
Roxy, HKG has one of the highest life expectancies in the world....thats now, we will see in 15-20 years when the younger population are approaching middle age and the children have had 15-20 years of breathing this disgusting crap that on a good day is 5 times the WHO limit, on a bad day 20 times, those bad days are getting more and more regular.
Of course, a statistic that is not available is quality of life, sure you might live to 70 or 80, but you might spend a lot of time at the doctors, and wheezing, coughing and hacking like so many do around here. There are approximately 7,000,000 doctor/hospital visits every year attributed to pollution.
I also think there are an alarmingly, abnormally high number of my colleagues whose family members have had brushes with death, more than a dozen out of 400 pilots in 3 years.
If someone put a gun to your head and said " heres xxxxxxxxxxHKD and if you accept this I will pull the trigger and you have a 1-5000 chance of dying " what would you do ? ( roughly 1500 die from pollution here each year )
Unfortunately kids don't have the option of saying yes or no, they rely on their parents to do the right thing by them.
You could smoke a pack of smokes a day for your entire life and die of old age, or you could die at 30, again, are you willing to take the risk and do you have the right to make your kids accept that risk ? ( not you personally )
Check this site out, the guy that started/runs it has moved back to the UK due to his ill health which he attributes directly to HKG, as every time he went home he got better HEI - Home
To answer your question, yes the pollution has had a strange and profound effect....its made all my belongings and my family move 8000Ks south
Roxy, HKG has one of the highest life expectancies in the world....thats now, we will see in 15-20 years when the younger population are approaching middle age and the children have had 15-20 years of breathing this disgusting crap that on a good day is 5 times the WHO limit, on a bad day 20 times, those bad days are getting more and more regular.
Of course, a statistic that is not available is quality of life, sure you might live to 70 or 80, but you might spend a lot of time at the doctors, and wheezing, coughing and hacking like so many do around here. There are approximately 7,000,000 doctor/hospital visits every year attributed to pollution.
I also think there are an alarmingly, abnormally high number of my colleagues whose family members have had brushes with death, more than a dozen out of 400 pilots in 3 years.
If someone put a gun to your head and said " heres xxxxxxxxxxHKD and if you accept this I will pull the trigger and you have a 1-5000 chance of dying " what would you do ? ( roughly 1500 die from pollution here each year )
Unfortunately kids don't have the option of saying yes or no, they rely on their parents to do the right thing by them.
You could smoke a pack of smokes a day for your entire life and die of old age, or you could die at 30, again, are you willing to take the risk and do you have the right to make your kids accept that risk ? ( not you personally )
Check this site out, the guy that started/runs it has moved back to the UK due to his ill health which he attributes directly to HKG, as every time he went home he got better HEI - Home
To answer your question, yes the pollution has had a strange and profound effect....its made all my belongings and my family move 8000Ks south
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Does anybody implement any possible remedies such as
Appreciate the helpful input thus far.
R
- Wear one of those surgical masks (not sure how effective these will be against the gaseous substances)
- Air purifier in apartment
- Stay indoors (effective?)
- Commuting from other neighbouring regions (probably financially ruinous given the current pay offerings)
- Seek basing (unsure how likely this is for a new joiner after FO upgrade)
- Full facial respirator/gas mask
- Nah just kidding
Appreciate the helpful input thus far.
R
Last edited by Roxy_Chick_1989; 17th Apr 2011 at 04:53.
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Surgical masks : completely useless against the microscopic particles that do you the most harm.
Air purifiers : Yes, the good ones ( 12-14000HKD each ) work well in bringing down the particle/litre to below 60K, the IQ air, running 24/7 can bring the PM/litre down to below 10,000 which is good, but you have to leave the apartment sooner or later.
Stay indoors : Bah ha ha ha, the stupid, inane, pathetic HK government tell you to stay indoors on really bad days where the air quality is almost EXACTLY the same as outside ( unless you have air purifiers ). Are people really that stupid to think their flats ( especially here ) are air tight
Commuting : People do, from Thailand, NZ, Oz, even SA etc, there are many financial penalties, visa/living issues of course and eg Thailand you/your family have to leave every few months.
Basings : depending on who you talk to at CX, these could become extinct, at the moment tho I think Oz bases are not that hard to get bearing in mind you will be an S/O for 4-5 years and then JFO for another 6 mths min., so 5-6 years before you can even apply, that is a long time to be breathing in this 5hit.
If you are young/single your lifestyle would be 100 times better with VB/Jokestar/National Joke etc in Oz than it will be up here, IMHO. Most of those have staff travel and you wil enjoy seeing the world a lot more in your own time.
Good luck
Air purifiers : Yes, the good ones ( 12-14000HKD each ) work well in bringing down the particle/litre to below 60K, the IQ air, running 24/7 can bring the PM/litre down to below 10,000 which is good, but you have to leave the apartment sooner or later.
Stay indoors : Bah ha ha ha, the stupid, inane, pathetic HK government tell you to stay indoors on really bad days where the air quality is almost EXACTLY the same as outside ( unless you have air purifiers ). Are people really that stupid to think their flats ( especially here ) are air tight
Commuting : People do, from Thailand, NZ, Oz, even SA etc, there are many financial penalties, visa/living issues of course and eg Thailand you/your family have to leave every few months.
Basings : depending on who you talk to at CX, these could become extinct, at the moment tho I think Oz bases are not that hard to get bearing in mind you will be an S/O for 4-5 years and then JFO for another 6 mths min., so 5-6 years before you can even apply, that is a long time to be breathing in this 5hit.
If you are young/single your lifestyle would be 100 times better with VB/Jokestar/National Joke etc in Oz than it will be up here, IMHO. Most of those have staff travel and you wil enjoy seeing the world a lot more in your own time.
Good luck
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hongkongfooey said: Stay indoors : Bah ha ha ha, the stupid, inane, pathetic HK government tell you to stay indoors on really bad days where the air quality is almost EXACTLY the same as outside ( unless you have air purifiers ). Are people really that stupid to think their flats ( especially here ) are air tight
I however advocate the "place extended index finger across your nostrils" method, which realiably filters out any pollutants bigger than a broadbean (or even a pea for that matter) and looks even more ridiculous
@Roxy_Chick_1989
sad but true, the full face filter picture you posted is the only way of getting clean air outside. Not that I'd see anyone wear them, because air pollution doesn't cause acute pain so most people try to ignore it ....
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Has anyone ordered an IQair filter online from the US? Seems they are a lot cheaper (about 1/2) than in Hk
Lived in HK, kid got very sick. Respiratory infections all the time.
Cupboard full of Watsons cold and flu remedies.
Left HK. Kid never been healthier. Change occurred almost immediately.
Cold and flu remedies all time expired and in the bin.
No amount of $ is worth my conscience being tarnished by hurting my child.
Cupboard full of Watsons cold and flu remedies.
Left HK. Kid never been healthier. Change occurred almost immediately.
Cold and flu remedies all time expired and in the bin.
No amount of $ is worth my conscience being tarnished by hurting my child.
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I wouldn't advocate putting the kids through the "haze" either. As for adults, well, they can make the choice for themselves. Cosmic radiation, Fukushima radiation, HK pollution, Dhaka pollution, Indian pollution and food poisoning. It's a fantastic career.
I have found that the "Pull-Your-T-Shirt-Up-Over-Your-Mouth-And-Nose" technique can produce favourable results. Not necessarily from the pollution, but from various bodily odours emanated from the shoulder-to-shoulder crowds.
I have found that the "Pull-Your-T-Shirt-Up-Over-Your-Mouth-And-Nose" technique can produce favourable results. Not necessarily from the pollution, but from various bodily odours emanated from the shoulder-to-shoulder crowds.
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Roxy Chick. I could name at least half a dozen of my colleagues who swear that their own and children's health improved markedly as a result of returing to their home country permanently or even just on extended holidays. And the improvement was almost instantaneous in most cases. This suggests the improvement in air quality was the main factor.
Some people are more susceptible to showing symptoms related to the air quality than others. Regardless, the bad air WILL affect ALL those living in HKG. Younger children in particular are more susceptible with their developing lungs. The Hong Kong government are burying their heads in the sand on this issue and will continue to do so for a long time to come. Donald Tsang once remarked that since Hong Kong has one of the longest life expectancy's in the world, there simply can't be a problem.
We have one of the IQ Air machines and two smaller purifiers and can reccommend the IQ Air in particular. Unfortunately they(IQ Air) are very expensive to buy. The replacement parts are also expensive, but we order our spares online and get them posted to one of the crew hotels in the USA. At least we are getting clean air for 14 or so hours a day.
I know of no one that has ordered one from USA. They are significantly cheaper than in Hong Kong, but would be difficult to get on as crew luggage unless thay can be broken down. Shipping would be expensive too. Voltage is not a problem - step down transformers are just a few dollars here.
Hope this helps.
PS. There is also a hidden danger with new renovations/furniture. Alot of the (cheap) glues used to put stuff together in China(where much of the new furniture/laminates/built -in's etc are made) have some pretty dodgy chemicals in them. They can give off some nasty fumes(e.g. formaldahydes) over a considerable length of time. Consider getting a purifier that can absorb some of these. A simple google search will yield information on all of this.
Some people are more susceptible to showing symptoms related to the air quality than others. Regardless, the bad air WILL affect ALL those living in HKG. Younger children in particular are more susceptible with their developing lungs. The Hong Kong government are burying their heads in the sand on this issue and will continue to do so for a long time to come. Donald Tsang once remarked that since Hong Kong has one of the longest life expectancy's in the world, there simply can't be a problem.
We have one of the IQ Air machines and two smaller purifiers and can reccommend the IQ Air in particular. Unfortunately they(IQ Air) are very expensive to buy. The replacement parts are also expensive, but we order our spares online and get them posted to one of the crew hotels in the USA. At least we are getting clean air for 14 or so hours a day.
I know of no one that has ordered one from USA. They are significantly cheaper than in Hong Kong, but would be difficult to get on as crew luggage unless thay can be broken down. Shipping would be expensive too. Voltage is not a problem - step down transformers are just a few dollars here.
Hope this helps.
PS. There is also a hidden danger with new renovations/furniture. Alot of the (cheap) glues used to put stuff together in China(where much of the new furniture/laminates/built -in's etc are made) have some pretty dodgy chemicals in them. They can give off some nasty fumes(e.g. formaldahydes) over a considerable length of time. Consider getting a purifier that can absorb some of these. A simple google search will yield information on all of this.
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Bare in mind that, although many of you guys or your kids got better leaving HK for a while, the destruction of airways/noses can be irreversible. Picked up my nose allergies in HK, even out of HK for an extended time I still never breath like I used to do.