Bragon Air: Out of Control
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And Then...personally I couldn't give 2 hoots who you are, I was actually using it as a chance to point out different muppets on level 2.
Radical Approach...what you think Vapp +57kts and 1800fpm rate of descent at 1500 ft is not radical? 1000ft Vapp +37...500ft +21 1200fpm ROD....Would you like more figures as they went down the approach? Why was there a witch hunt on, then all of a sudden it went quiet when it was learnt that is was a training captain? Any ordinary line guy would be hung out to dry...it's the Bragon way.
Maybe you should pull your head of the cloud of whatever you are smoking...amazing how quickly some forget when guys have been threatened...you don't even recall the bs treatment of one of the boys in a certain 330 on its way to India.
Swipes at my colleagues? The only people I have taken swipes are the ones who deserve to be questioned. Level 2 goes without saying, the DPA...well they are collecting a lot of dues for doing not a lot. They were the ones who came in saying they were going to change the world and that the previous committee before them was no good.
You can carry on as much as you like And Then, thinking you are clever....let's see how clever you are when an aircraft is bent (I never want this to happen) and see if it is some guy on the line who has been threatened from above. Bragon will be melted down to make pendants.
Luck has played a huge role in Dragon staying safe, not from some awesomeness from Level 2...luck does run out and watch Level 2 point the finger immediately.
It is simple, mgt is out-of-control...you can carry-on all you like trying to bait me to get an idea of who I might be...but morale is at an all time low, Bragon is going nowhere and mgt is treating everyone with contempt, it is inherent throughout the company (just see how they treat they cabin crew)...
Threats, double standards, morale, the list goes on...the holes are lining up.
Radical Approach...what you think Vapp +57kts and 1800fpm rate of descent at 1500 ft is not radical? 1000ft Vapp +37...500ft +21 1200fpm ROD....Would you like more figures as they went down the approach? Why was there a witch hunt on, then all of a sudden it went quiet when it was learnt that is was a training captain? Any ordinary line guy would be hung out to dry...it's the Bragon way.
Maybe you should pull your head of the cloud of whatever you are smoking...amazing how quickly some forget when guys have been threatened...you don't even recall the bs treatment of one of the boys in a certain 330 on its way to India.
Swipes at my colleagues? The only people I have taken swipes are the ones who deserve to be questioned. Level 2 goes without saying, the DPA...well they are collecting a lot of dues for doing not a lot. They were the ones who came in saying they were going to change the world and that the previous committee before them was no good.
You can carry on as much as you like And Then, thinking you are clever....let's see how clever you are when an aircraft is bent (I never want this to happen) and see if it is some guy on the line who has been threatened from above. Bragon will be melted down to make pendants.
Luck has played a huge role in Dragon staying safe, not from some awesomeness from Level 2...luck does run out and watch Level 2 point the finger immediately.
It is simple, mgt is out-of-control...you can carry-on all you like trying to bait me to get an idea of who I might be...but morale is at an all time low, Bragon is going nowhere and mgt is treating everyone with contempt, it is inherent throughout the company (just see how they treat they cabin crew)...
Threats, double standards, morale, the list goes on...the holes are lining up.
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Ladies please, please.....
Lets get some perspective here : You have just been given a massive payrise for doing nothing other than enduring the increasing pollution, inflation, cost of living and wide open spaces in HKG.
A320 skippers now get to improve their training/communication prowess almost daily, with more than 25% of the F/Os being < 200hrs ( this will actually please some of the Jedi knights no end ).
F/Os now have a heap more time to perfect their skills for that shuttle command that is now around 8 years and climbing.
A320 now has heaps more overnights so you can save lots more RMb for those " massages ". ( but make it quick with min rest )
And all you have to complain about is a few dodgy
s on L2.....
I mean, FFS
Footnote : gweilos have been bashed more than a few times in DB and the cops don't give a rats
Lets get some perspective here : You have just been given a massive payrise for doing nothing other than enduring the increasing pollution, inflation, cost of living and wide open spaces in HKG.
A320 skippers now get to improve their training/communication prowess almost daily, with more than 25% of the F/Os being < 200hrs ( this will actually please some of the Jedi knights no end ).
F/Os now have a heap more time to perfect their skills for that shuttle command that is now around 8 years and climbing.
A320 now has heaps more overnights so you can save lots more RMb for those " massages ". ( but make it quick with min rest )
And all you have to complain about is a few dodgy
s on L2.....I mean, FFS
Footnote : gweilos have been bashed more than a few times in DB and the cops don't give a rats
Chill Bro
CptWhistleblower luck has phuckall to do with it mate
Experienced pilots are the majority of the crew and it is their contributions that keep the operation safe and efficient
If you are a DPA member, air it there not here for the world to see
Experienced pilots are the majority of the crew and it is their contributions that keep the operation safe and efficient
If you are a DPA member, air it there
not here for the world to see
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The industry term is unstable approach not radical approach. Most airlines have them from time to time. You slated Level 2 by stating it was a Training Manager. Now you have backed down and stated it was a Training Captain.
Your posts are a sensationalist rant exaggerating events and you seem to have little background knowledge on other events.
Luck has not been a considerable factor in Dragonair's safety record. As snoop dog mentions above, it is the broad experience of the crews who can operate safely on the line despite leadership/management issues, a muzzled training department, Cathay Pacific's bizarre SOPs, China, maintenance and all the other threats that make KA line ops what it is today.
Can the LHS experience and operational maturity handle the localization of the RHS? This is going to be a considerable stress-test for our operation. Unless our managers adjust to more broader thinking and leadership styles, I have grave concerns personally.
Your posts are a sensationalist rant exaggerating events and you seem to have little background knowledge on other events.
Luck has not been a considerable factor in Dragonair's safety record. As snoop dog mentions above, it is the broad experience of the crews who can operate safely on the line despite leadership/management issues, a muzzled training department, Cathay Pacific's bizarre SOPs, China, maintenance and all the other threats that make KA line ops what it is today.
Can the LHS experience and operational maturity handle the localization of the RHS? This is going to be a considerable stress-test for our operation. Unless our managers adjust to more broader thinking and leadership styles, I have grave concerns personally.
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Compare that approach to a very similar approach (with speeds, ROD, etc) by a 320 in the Philippines I think it was and yeah I would call it luck...why the hell was an aircraft even in a position to be only getting back to Vapp in the flare? Radical - Unstable......21kts fast at 500ft & 1200fpm ROD...that isn't unstable, that is just stupidity.
Anyway, this is taking away from the real problem here...mgt on level 2.
We know they are crying in the corner wondering why so much heat is coming down on their pathetic little dictatorship...still, the DPA and others let this continue, while the muppets threaten, harass, rule by intimidation, etc...they rip off the housing scheme, have double standards for guys on the line, and keep themselves cosy through unethical practices.
Keep supporting them, keep saying all is ok, keep thinking its all good.....low motivation amongst crews, morale abysmal, constantly having to have their a#### raped from level 2...yeah all sounds good to me.
Anyway, this is taking away from the real problem here...mgt on level 2.
We know they are crying in the corner wondering why so much heat is coming down on their pathetic little dictatorship...still, the DPA and others let this continue, while the muppets threaten, harass, rule by intimidation, etc...they rip off the housing scheme, have double standards for guys on the line, and keep themselves cosy through unethical practices.
Keep supporting them, keep saying all is ok, keep thinking its all good.....low motivation amongst crews, morale abysmal, constantly having to have their a#### raped from level 2...yeah all sounds good to me.
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Why don't you lay out a coherent and logical way/plan that you think the DPA can depose the blokes on level 2. The DPA has already done a "job" on them re the "just safety culture" and the reporting of go-arounds.
It's very easy to "hide out in tree tops and shout out rude names" (apologies Peter Gabriel) but I don't see any suggestions from you. I'm not taking sides, just wondering if you have any suggestions, e.g. how would they obtain documentation to investigate HPS payments to level 2 people, court order? private detective?
With regard to the pay-rise, the majority of the membership votes yes. That's a fact, reality.
I don't disagree that morale is at an all-time low and there are some real issues that need to be addressed, but a logical approach would gain better results.
It's very easy to "hide out in tree tops and shout out rude names" (apologies Peter Gabriel) but I don't see any suggestions from you. I'm not taking sides, just wondering if you have any suggestions, e.g. how would they obtain documentation to investigate HPS payments to level 2 people, court order? private detective?
With regard to the pay-rise, the majority of the membership votes yes. That's a fact, reality.
I don't disagree that morale is at an all-time low and there are some real issues that need to be addressed, but a logical approach would gain better results.
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So the wheel is turning and people are waking up to this dictatorship.
While you're in your offices Brutus aka Cpt Bi-Polar, Cpt Twitter, Cpt Swing-er and others not worth a mention...instead of checking prune every minute of the day and stressing your minds out, shouldn't you be running the show?
Just to save you the hassle, here's my IP: 174.133.108.172
Now get back to work....stop wasting the companies time!!!
While you're in your offices Brutus aka Cpt Bi-Polar, Cpt Twitter, Cpt Swing-er and others not worth a mention...instead of checking prune every minute of the day and stressing your minds out, shouldn't you be running the show?
Just to save you the hassle, here's my IP: 174.133.108.172
Now get back to work....stop wasting the companies time!!!
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Enough
Capt toss, whistleblower, air leak... Whoever you are, enough.
Before you start slinging your mud, I'm not a level 2 sycophant and not a big supporter of many in management, but enough is enough.
What do you hope to achieve?
You say morale is at an all time low, perhaps with you and your multiple personas it is, but I'm a line pilot and all seems well with those that I fly with.
We could all do a lot worse than KA
Capt Toss, take your pills, focus on your humorous side, enough of the nasty c&¥t!!!
Fx
Before you start slinging your mud, I'm not a level 2 sycophant and not a big supporter of many in management, but enough is enough.
What do you hope to achieve?
You say morale is at an all time low, perhaps with you and your multiple personas it is, but I'm a line pilot and all seems well with those that I fly with.
We could all do a lot worse than KA
Capt Toss, take your pills, focus on your humorous side, enough of the nasty c&¥t!!!
Fx
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Thanks for the complement, but I can assure you Captain Toss likes to work alone. I do suffer from multiple personality disorders usually starting from sign on till shut down.
The additional "Haters" that have come on the scene are new to me. I've had people ring me up and say hey are you this guy & that guy .... no I'm not ... but I'm glad to have been an inspiration for other people to speak up.
Right need to go work on my funny side ..... I'll cover myself in honey, dive into a box full of $100 notes and get a cab to Fenwicks!!!!
The additional "Haters" that have come on the scene are new to me. I've had people ring me up and say hey are you this guy & that guy .... no I'm not ... but I'm glad to have been an inspiration for other people to speak up.
Right need to go work on my funny side ..... I'll cover myself in honey, dive into a box full of $100 notes and get a cab to Fenwicks!!!!
Last edited by Capt Toss Parker; 7th Apr 2011 at 15:23.
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Feath...would love to help you out, but unfortunately we ain't one and the same as many might think.
After reading Toss and others, I decided it was time to be heard as well, I mean Bragonair mgt certainly won't listen in a 'just culture' way. So I guess now that I am voicing as well and what seems like a few others, we have decided enough is enough from corrupt management...while historically in aviation because of the size of the industry and seniority systems, it has made it very hard for pilots to be treated fairly when they do speak up. If they do, it is insanely hard to maintain a good standing in their chosen profession, as others burn, climb over, etc to move on up big shiny jets.
So yeah you are correct...enough is enough, we have encouraged pilots to speak up and now they have a chance to air their grievances without been squashed, muted, sacked, or anything else for that matter.
You may think we are just one...but look around where is all this coming from and the storm is only gathering. What is coming as stated in the Airline Leaks blog...oh man, once things are cleared with the legal eagles, watch how a corrupt empire will be brought to its knees...it will shock you and make you cringe.
Just have some patience, if you think I'm talking it up, go ahead...but just remember what has been written and that the level 2 'boys club' is in for very stormy action. Don't worry, I'm not making any threat, it's a promise!
My - my aren't the owners going to be so impressed with the little muppets they have acquired...should have run their background checks a lot better.
After reading Toss and others, I decided it was time to be heard as well, I mean Bragonair mgt certainly won't listen in a 'just culture' way. So I guess now that I am voicing as well and what seems like a few others, we have decided enough is enough from corrupt management...while historically in aviation because of the size of the industry and seniority systems, it has made it very hard for pilots to be treated fairly when they do speak up. If they do, it is insanely hard to maintain a good standing in their chosen profession, as others burn, climb over, etc to move on up big shiny jets.
So yeah you are correct...enough is enough, we have encouraged pilots to speak up and now they have a chance to air their grievances without been squashed, muted, sacked, or anything else for that matter.
You may think we are just one...but look around where is all this coming from and the storm is only gathering. What is coming as stated in the Airline Leaks blog...oh man, once things are cleared with the legal eagles, watch how a corrupt empire will be brought to its knees...it will shock you and make you cringe.
Just have some patience, if you think I'm talking it up, go ahead...but just remember what has been written and that the level 2 'boys club' is in for very stormy action. Don't worry, I'm not making any threat, it's a promise!
My - my aren't the owners going to be so impressed with the little muppets they have acquired...should have run their background checks a lot better.
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All was quiet on the Western Front.
Now, I am going to take issue with Personal. I was told when renovating 18 months ago I needed to stay in my residence. So, I removed my kids from school, sent them on a long holiday and camped in my shell of an apartment, showering from a hose and inhaling cement dust. Why did I not get special treatment if the rumors true? Not happy.
Now, I am going to take issue with Personal. I was told when renovating 18 months ago I needed to stay in my residence. So, I removed my kids from school, sent them on a long holiday and camped in my shell of an apartment, showering from a hose and inhaling cement dust. Why did I not get special treatment if the rumors true? Not happy.
Last edited by And Then; 8th Apr 2011 at 02:40.
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Preselection April Award: Hongkongfooey
Great qoute!
he should be awarded as the greatest posters(sh*t S***er) on fragrant Forum too.
"Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely"
Happy landings!
Last edited by MD330; 8th Apr 2011 at 09:10.
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And Then,
You should send your concerns to the DPA, I've e-mailed them but they wont answer my request to push for an investigation. It's not fair that you had to endure such hardship but the management pilots can do as they please with their renovations.
(Rumor Has It) During the week, the GMO has continued to call chief pilots to try and screw guys over, yet he wants legal action for being criticized on pprune?
You are dreaming Mr Non Commissioned Officer Boiler Maker.
Megalomaniac? I think so
You should send your concerns to the DPA, I've e-mailed them but they wont answer my request to push for an investigation. It's not fair that you had to endure such hardship but the management pilots can do as they please with their renovations.
(Rumor Has It) During the week, the GMO has continued to call chief pilots to try and screw guys over, yet he wants legal action for being criticized on pprune?
You are dreaming Mr Non Commissioned Officer Boiler Maker.
Megalomaniac? I think so
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I'm writing a book "my life as the worlds greatest aviator by TP"
Besides people rarely turned up to fly with me .... they were to overwhelmed with the amount of knowledge that I could fire hose them, some even claimed to have seen the maitrix after receiving my divine information.
But like Jesus ... one day I will return
Besides people rarely turned up to fly with me .... they were to overwhelmed with the amount of knowledge that I could fire hose them, some even claimed to have seen the maitrix after receiving my divine information.
But like Jesus ... one day I will return
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This thread has come to the attention of said airline's ultimate owner.
A good source has it that there will be a management investigation, discrete or otherwise.
Stay tuned.
A good source has it that there will be a management investigation, discrete or otherwise.
Stay tuned.
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If you believe that anything will improve after an "investigation" you are very optimistic...... My few short years here have shown that it is all a " dog and pony show" 
"smoke and mirrors" ...... Etcetera
"smoke and mirrors" ...... Etcetera