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Join Date: May 2006
Location: CANADA
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My lifestyle and quality of living was much higher when I was 19 years old (vs in HK on housing package) flying small GA aircraft in northern Canada. 3 bedroom stylish condo which I owned, good car, fridge was full of normal food, room to breath, air was fresh...
ANYONE considering this opportunity should take a very serious look at quality of living and costs in Hong Kong. They might just drop aviation all together and apply to return to university. Think LONG term people! Life is short.
Given the option, it makes no financial sense to move to HK from a western standard of living for $26k, it'll be starvation in every way.
Good luck to this business, looks like the jigs are hitting bottom. At least in GA it takes actual flying skills to succeed, can't get away with automation dependence that is so evident today in commercial airlines.
We may see a reversal of the tide. Insurance companies in Canada have set minimum experience levels (which are in excess of 5000 hour pic in some cases) for clients of GA aircraft on certain contracts. But here at one of the world's leading airlines, we can employ pilots with ZERO experience. These pilots CAN sit at the controls of these 400+ passenger jets ALONE while the real pilot is in the toilet or galley chatting up the crew. Does the CAD really exist? I find it very difficult to comprehend why the authorities allow so much inexperience to enter at this level of aviation? The money the company is saving is almost a non-factor in this very capital-intensive, low yielding game.
Point is, those jobs that actually require skills and real experience are seeing an improvement in wages, along with index increases. On top of that, a lot of these jobs are quite enjoyable. These cadets miss the big picture if they give that up, most of us got into flying to really FLY, an S/O position at CX doesn't offer that.
ANYONE considering this opportunity should take a very serious look at quality of living and costs in Hong Kong. They might just drop aviation all together and apply to return to university. Think LONG term people! Life is short.
Given the option, it makes no financial sense to move to HK from a western standard of living for $26k, it'll be starvation in every way.
Good luck to this business, looks like the jigs are hitting bottom. At least in GA it takes actual flying skills to succeed, can't get away with automation dependence that is so evident today in commercial airlines.
We may see a reversal of the tide. Insurance companies in Canada have set minimum experience levels (which are in excess of 5000 hour pic in some cases) for clients of GA aircraft on certain contracts. But here at one of the world's leading airlines, we can employ pilots with ZERO experience. These pilots CAN sit at the controls of these 400+ passenger jets ALONE while the real pilot is in the toilet or galley chatting up the crew. Does the CAD really exist? I find it very difficult to comprehend why the authorities allow so much inexperience to enter at this level of aviation? The money the company is saving is almost a non-factor in this very capital-intensive, low yielding game.
Point is, those jobs that actually require skills and real experience are seeing an improvement in wages, along with index increases. On top of that, a lot of these jobs are quite enjoyable. These cadets miss the big picture if they give that up, most of us got into flying to really FLY, an S/O position at CX doesn't offer that.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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That's only for true locals
Come as a Cadet & not only will you be shafted by CX and not get housing, you'll get done by the Gov aswell.
Since you will be paying taxes which will go towards the real locals (some of them earning more than you doing a lessor job than you) for them to get subsidies on housing which you will not be able to receive as you are a foreigner.
(Not too mention double taxation which will becoming soon, IE paying taxes here & in your home country, leaving you with even less)
You can never Win!
My advice remain a expat, get another flying job. Then come as a D S/O or D F/O is you have too.
The pilots here are about to be a "work to rule" at CX.
Guess what CX will not budge! Many will get more upset and leave or get fired. This at a time when capacity is about to improve greatly here and all over the world.
CX will start hiring again in a big way! Sit on you hands & see.
But don't become a CADET!
CX will continue to lie to you & me, and not give much improved conditions, that you may or may not be able to live with. But certainly coming here with no housing will be major disaster!
Don't think you can up and away. Your time here counts as nothing elsewhere. No body does things like CX i.e. P2X is worthless.
(and is rapidly getting worse and the training value in your modules is getting cut all the time to save money)
You may as well set up Flight Sim 2010 and stay with Mom & Dad for 5 yrs then apply for a Job elsewhere. (Ya right! well same same)
Don't forget Airlines are Seniority based. You waste 5+ yrs here, you'll be lucky to start at the bottom elsewhere.
My real advice is stay well clear of being a pilot altogether!
Let me ask you one question:
Why do guys like I bother to right this post?
1) As I'm wanting to warn you about what really goes on here etc ?
or
2) To scare you away thus hopefully limiting the supply of pilots and hopefully giving us some bargaining power to increase our benefits etc.
(Do u see lawyer or banker whom pocket $mil lobbying like this- NO!)
Say what you want.
The reason is BOTH! Because I and others & their families are desperately concerned about the future, but we are stuck in this seniority system and find it hard to move on and start elsewhere.
Starting at the bottom is not an option. It would be better off if we started totally new careers, which also takes time effort & family support.
All of which are very difficult to do when our skills have no bearing in the real world.
We are quickly turning into a miserable & depressed bunch of people becoming more & more under the thumb of powerful bankers & accountants. We have no power over our future, yet are in charge of 300+ peoples lives.
This is very hard to swallow!
Do you really want to be apart of this?
My advice is bugger off go to uni & became a banker or a accountant or a lawyer. And be my boss sooner than you become an F/O.
Come as a Cadet & not only will you be shafted by CX and not get housing, you'll get done by the Gov aswell.
Since you will be paying taxes which will go towards the real locals (some of them earning more than you doing a lessor job than you) for them to get subsidies on housing which you will not be able to receive as you are a foreigner.
(Not too mention double taxation which will becoming soon, IE paying taxes here & in your home country, leaving you with even less)
You can never Win!
My advice remain a expat, get another flying job. Then come as a D S/O or D F/O is you have too.
The pilots here are about to be a "work to rule" at CX.
Guess what CX will not budge! Many will get more upset and leave or get fired. This at a time when capacity is about to improve greatly here and all over the world.
CX will start hiring again in a big way! Sit on you hands & see.
But don't become a CADET!
CX will continue to lie to you & me, and not give much improved conditions, that you may or may not be able to live with. But certainly coming here with no housing will be major disaster!
Don't think you can up and away. Your time here counts as nothing elsewhere. No body does things like CX i.e. P2X is worthless.
(and is rapidly getting worse and the training value in your modules is getting cut all the time to save money)
You may as well set up Flight Sim 2010 and stay with Mom & Dad for 5 yrs then apply for a Job elsewhere. (Ya right! well same same)
Don't forget Airlines are Seniority based. You waste 5+ yrs here, you'll be lucky to start at the bottom elsewhere.
My real advice is stay well clear of being a pilot altogether!
Let me ask you one question:
Why do guys like I bother to right this post?
1) As I'm wanting to warn you about what really goes on here etc ?
or
2) To scare you away thus hopefully limiting the supply of pilots and hopefully giving us some bargaining power to increase our benefits etc.
(Do u see lawyer or banker whom pocket $mil lobbying like this- NO!)
Say what you want.
The reason is BOTH! Because I and others & their families are desperately concerned about the future, but we are stuck in this seniority system and find it hard to move on and start elsewhere.
Starting at the bottom is not an option. It would be better off if we started totally new careers, which also takes time effort & family support.
All of which are very difficult to do when our skills have no bearing in the real world.
We are quickly turning into a miserable & depressed bunch of people becoming more & more under the thumb of powerful bankers & accountants. We have no power over our future, yet are in charge of 300+ peoples lives.
This is very hard to swallow!
Do you really want to be apart of this?
My advice is bugger off go to uni & became a banker or a accountant or a lawyer. And be my boss sooner than you become an F/O.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Either way ur dream is screwed!
GA or Airlines it does not matter, being a pilot is a dull underpaid job for a bright person full of potential in many other areas.
If you have some brains stay well clear of this profession all together!
I meant that!
Bottom line is if you are really passionate about flying, work hard at uni don't mess about. Get a good qualification and a feel for your strengths. Go and build a solid career one that you can amend where you see fit.
In your spare time do a Paragliding course that is real flying, later on when u have enough money buy a microlight or a home built or a light Cessna.
Then you set, and have full control on your life and get to fly when the weather is nice with whom ever you want on your J/S.
Think out the box guys! The accountants are destroying this career and milking it dry. It is very hard to change course once you committed to this career.
So plan your life correctly 1st time! Think loooonnng term..
But in the near future we piloys may be in for slight improvement, but it want last long since the next doom & gloom won't be far off. Ready for the bankers to coin it again & tighten the noose once again.
Can't beat them join them! But stay away if you can.
GA or Airlines it does not matter, being a pilot is a dull underpaid job for a bright person full of potential in many other areas.
If you have some brains stay well clear of this profession all together!
I meant that!
Bottom line is if you are really passionate about flying, work hard at uni don't mess about. Get a good qualification and a feel for your strengths. Go and build a solid career one that you can amend where you see fit.
In your spare time do a Paragliding course that is real flying, later on when u have enough money buy a microlight or a home built or a light Cessna.
Then you set, and have full control on your life and get to fly when the weather is nice with whom ever you want on your J/S.
Think out the box guys! The accountants are destroying this career and milking it dry. It is very hard to change course once you committed to this career.
So plan your life correctly 1st time! Think loooonnng term..
But in the near future we piloys may be in for slight improvement, but it want last long since the next doom & gloom won't be far off. Ready for the bankers to coin it again & tighten the noose once again.
Can't beat them join them! But stay away if you can.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Paragliding & flying light aircraft is far more fun on ave to fly than a big shinny jet. (Sure Jets are one hell of a thrill to land & take one off nicely but that is where it ends, and even then after some time that too becomes a bit like clock work. )
Flying with the wind in your face and ever changing elements is something that cannot be described unless you try it.
Anyway modern airline flying is so monitored now & SOP are followed to the T. That there is little passion in my vanes while at the controls.
Sadly this approach is very necessary, as many a pilot has not even got the confidence to do a visual approach.
Now who's fault is that? The accountants again, they sucked the blood out of extra training & Sim rides due to costs?
How many V1 Cuts do you do today compared to 10+ years ago in the Sim?
Anyway I'm not in a mood to argue these points anymore.
Only that it not such a passion anymore, sure I still love flying.
But it is certainly is not what it seems when you start out.
If I had to go repeat my life, I would have chosen a different path to aviate and have better control over my life.
Think of those furlough pilots in the US whose lives are still effected by 9/11 almost 10years latter. On the other hand how many bankers do you know how are out of a job since the recent financial crisis. Many are raking in millions as I type!
ITS SICK!
Enough said, make your own bed Guys but be warned.
Stay in control of your lives at all costs (Develop real skills that can be used in every day life) this world in going to become more & more bumpy once this current good phase has passed.
Flying with the wind in your face and ever changing elements is something that cannot be described unless you try it.
Anyway modern airline flying is so monitored now & SOP are followed to the T. That there is little passion in my vanes while at the controls.
Sadly this approach is very necessary, as many a pilot has not even got the confidence to do a visual approach.
Now who's fault is that? The accountants again, they sucked the blood out of extra training & Sim rides due to costs?
How many V1 Cuts do you do today compared to 10+ years ago in the Sim?
Anyway I'm not in a mood to argue these points anymore.
Only that it not such a passion anymore, sure I still love flying.
But it is certainly is not what it seems when you start out.
If I had to go repeat my life, I would have chosen a different path to aviate and have better control over my life.
Think of those furlough pilots in the US whose lives are still effected by 9/11 almost 10years latter. On the other hand how many bankers do you know how are out of a job since the recent financial crisis. Many are raking in millions as I type!
ITS SICK!
Enough said, make your own bed Guys but be warned. Stay in control of your lives at all costs (Develop real skills that can be used in every day life) this world in going to become more & more bumpy once this current good phase has passed.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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CX do get Cadets to sign a Bonding document, but it is NOT legally binding - they want to Cadet to think it is. One can not contract out of the Basic Law.
It could also be argued that one is signing the 'bonding' agreement under duress - sign or no job and without having received independent legal advice.
It could also be argued that one is signing the 'bonding' agreement under duress - sign or no job and without having received independent legal advice.
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Nicely put and factual. However, clearly the essay is written by an insider and not by a wannabe as implied. Someone with lots of time on hand. The wannabe should be thankful for the truth and effort.
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Join the Military
GA and Cadet schemes are not the only way to get into flying !!!!
Join the military - I guarantee the flying part will be a lot more fun than the previous two put together. You can always join the Airlines when you are 40. By then they will probably have raised the retirement age to 70, so you will still have a good 30 years to sit and observe the automated flight.
On top of that you will actually know how you will react under real pressure (And No, you will never be able to create that feeling in a SIM)
I have absolutely loved every day I went to work in the Air Force.
Join the military - I guarantee the flying part will be a lot more fun than the previous two put together. You can always join the Airlines when you are 40. By then they will probably have raised the retirement age to 70, so you will still have a good 30 years to sit and observe the automated flight.
On top of that you will actually know how you will react under real pressure (And No, you will never be able to create that feeling in a SIM)
I have absolutely loved every day I went to work in the Air Force.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Miffed at being an online internet comedy ....
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I have always maintained that the military produces the best pilots.
Years of exceptional training ingrain a pilot with valuable tools such as ... awareness, tenacity, big picture thinking, handling skills, management techniques and the ability to pick up any woman that walks into a room .... especially your first officers wife when he falls asleep after dinner.
If you want to be a success story in aviation the military is one of the most highly regarded avenues you could take.
Fast cars, Fender Guitars and copy watches from Bangkok Bars the world is your oyster!
Years of exceptional training ingrain a pilot with valuable tools such as ... awareness, tenacity, big picture thinking, handling skills, management techniques and the ability to pick up any woman that walks into a room .... especially your first officers wife when he falls asleep after dinner.
If you want to be a success story in aviation the military is one of the most highly regarded avenues you could take.
Fast cars, Fender Guitars and copy watches from Bangkok Bars the world is your oyster!
Join Date: Mar 2008
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there is a chance that one day some baddie might be doing their best to increase the number of parts your soft warm little body is made up of and this can turn quite a lot of folk off the job.
Join Date: May 2009
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I am willing to bet my Housing allowance and 5 years' salary that the post was NOT written by Wannabe.
The sad thing is that one of the naysayers here spent probably an hour writting that post and for what?
Pathetic
The sad thing is that one of the naysayers here spent probably an hour writting that post and for what?
Pathetic
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Great betpump5! Will IM you my bank account details.
BTW, looking at your previous posts, I am willing to bet you the price of a Baron endorsement that you work in Cathay management! Shall we go double or nothing?
When management of an airline cruise the posts of PPrune to shoot down the rumours then I know that definately made the right decision.
Best of luck.
BTW, looking at your previous posts, I am willing to bet you the price of a Baron endorsement that you work in Cathay management! Shall we go double or nothing?
When management of an airline cruise the posts of PPrune to shoot down the rumours then I know that definately made the right decision.
Best of luck.
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awareness, tenacity, big picture thinking, handling skills, management techniques and the ability to pick up any woman that walks into a room .... especially your first officers wife
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Mopar - While I don't know ITWs reasons I am sure they are probably similar to my reasons for wanting to join CX.
Diversity - I spent half my professional career in the Air Force and would now like to do something different. Doing 40+ years in the Air Force or in the Airlines simply does not appeal to me.
Diversity - I spent half my professional career in the Air Force and would now like to do something different. Doing 40+ years in the Air Force or in the Airlines simply does not appeal to me.
Join Date: Nov 2010
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I think I get the point mopar is trying to make. There are a number of us who are xmil but we don't feel the need to constantly crap on about it through anonymous Internet forums....