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Air China Cargo the new ASL

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Air China Cargo the new ASL

Old 22nd Mar 2010, 16:48
  #1 (permalink)  
Saturn
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Angry Air China Cargo the new ASL

After reading the latest CX magazine I was furious. They are blatantly rubbing it in our faces. Two full page articles on it. So it really needs to be addressed.

Firstly, it is NOT a new JV! It is an exsisting operation that CX is donating to in both cash and aircraft.

Secondly, These aircraft were flown by CX pilots and parked because of the downturn. If they came back there might be a need for more crew. Let's say we need 10 crew per aircraft. There would be 40 Capt's 40's Fo's and perhaps another 20 as relief. The Capt slots would have to go by strick seniority and SO's would get to upgrade and may be even a need for new hires. ALL ON FULL PAY. No more freighter BS.

THIS IS ANOTHER ASL PERIOD! The statement that more aircraft might be going as well made me wanna divert and park their fuc**** aircraft.

Guys and gals we have to stop this madness! These were/are our jobs!

I am calling on the AOA for immediate action on this!
 
Old 22nd Mar 2010, 17:42
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Out of the pollution.
Posts: 674
Threaten strike ala the cabin crew and follow through.

Anything else won't work.

The time is NOW> STRIKE.
AAIGUY is offline  
Old 23rd Mar 2010, 06:39
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 20
Nothing to see here: move along

Western jobs relocating to China where labour is cheaper. It's a global issue and certainly not unique to us and has been going on for years. Better unions than the AOA have flexed their muscles over this only to lose.
Liam Gallagher is offline  
Old 23rd Mar 2010, 07:16
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 72
Better unions than the AOA have flexed their muscles over this only to lose.
Liam

Well said, fully gree with you. Global economy is changing and have to be practical and accept the hay days are over.

Parking aircraft will not change and any effect on the buisness model that is slowly changing.

Happy flying in the mean time mate.!
Capt Vertigo is offline  
Old 23rd Mar 2010, 17:11
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Nomadic
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Well, if better unions than the AOA have tried and failed, what, then, is the point of the AOA?
The Wraith is offline  
Old 24th Mar 2010, 05:04
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Australia
Posts: 47
After the 2001 and abandoning 49 guys. NO POINT.

Your union is done! Get used to it.
nudger is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2010, 06:57
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: In your mind.
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What a stupid comment.
Rook is offline  
Old 25th Mar 2010, 13:08
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 49
Posts: 93
Well, we now know why they agreed to get rid of the freighter divide; they never intended to have to pay pax rates for flying the freighter as they well knew that the JV would kill any need to do that! So they got what they wanted at nearly no cost to them! We were out smarted, simple as that.
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Old 26th Mar 2010, 21:07
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
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We were out smarted, simple as that.
Outsmarted? Sorry, but that would imply that we are active participants. It is very easy to win a chess match against someone who is not even playing. And that is the reality of the situation.

Our union is a joke, not because of our representatives, but because our membership doesn't even give a shitt enough to even vote. What point is there in getting everybody on-board if the guys that are already members don't even care enough to vote on important issues like FDAP?

The reason the FAs got their way is that 500 of them showed up at Hello Kitty City ready to sweat it out. When is the last time you saw 500 CX pilots together for any cause besides rugby sevens or a fleet party? It has nothing to do with how much you have to loose, it has to do with backbone and enough foresight to know that every little thing taken is twice as hard to get back. You think the FAs have power? You have the same power, you just lack backbone. You have to care about the issues and be willing to be an active participant.

Until our 49er/Ansett/shitty-job (pick whichever you like) mentally-scarred group get over it and start caring we will always loose to the company - and they know it just as much as we do.
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Old 27th Mar 2010, 00:14
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: with the other ex-CX pond scum (a zoologist was once head of Flight Ops)
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I've taken the advice of some previous posters on this thread. I have been thinking about the 'point' of the AOA, 'got used to' the union being 'done' and have 'accepted' that the 'hay (sic) days are over'.

Now what do I do? I'll become a spelling Nazi. 'Loose' means not secure, as in brain between ears. When used in the context of not retaining something, such as spelling ability,


it's 'LOSE'.

A previous Cathay Pacific CEO once allegedly referred to his pilots as 'million dollar morons'. Now we have an internet forum, viewed by thousands, where pilots openly bag the only organisation attempting to protect their interests, with poor spelling and grammar into the bargain. Either some of these posters are management stooges, or maybe he was right.

Last edited by Captain Dart; 27th Mar 2010 at 03:39.
Captain Dart is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2010, 01:18
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
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guys, you are wasting your time posting on here with all the mgt weenies chiming in. go to the AOA board, much more intelligent posts there.
airplaneridesrfun is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2010, 01:55
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 510
I agree with Sqwak7700.

Why canít our Union get even a fraction of the respect the Company gives the cabin crew? Thatís what Iíd like to know.

Iíve been pondering how our terms and conditions have deteriorated over the past few years while the cabin crew have held on to theirs. Why has the Companyís respect for their pilots deteriorated, while they tiptoe around the cabin crew?

For instance, on overseas patterns, the cabin crew stays twice as long as we do (48 hours recovery time, while we get 18-24 hours to recover and then fly back). They argue that they need this as rest. The Company gives in. InferenceÖitís legal, and the pilots donít require as much rest.

Our FTLís have become performance targets which crew control roster us to. Some of the regional patterns defy belief, where pilots are positioned on a freighter for 12 hours, so they operate the third sector home (usually into discretion), while the first crew positions home on the last sector. The end result, an 18-hour duty on a regional sector, flying in and out of some of the most challenging airports on the planet! This pattern is rostered like this to save the hotel costs (while the cabin crew hotel costs on their 48 hour rest patterns are considered sacrosanct). The Company does not, and will not, roster cabin crew like this. InferenceÖitís legal, and the pilots donít require as much rest.

Two pilots rostered to fly through the night to Australia when our FTLís call for a minimum of three pilots. We take this to court and LOSE!!! InferenceÖitís legal, and the pilots donít require as much rest.

On a Middle Eastern pattern ISD are paying the cabin crew more allowances than the cockpit crew. Our GMA in a letter to the crew stated this, only in passing, as if it didnít matter why ISD felt the need to do this while flight ops didnít. InferenceÖyou tell me!!!!

And to avoid any form of confrontation with the cabin crew, the DFO admits in his weekly letter that the Company will pay two seperate cabin crew to fly the same hours (one of which will receive overtime)?????

Donít get me wrong, I support our cabin crew and applaud their success. But shouldnít the AOA give it's collective head a shake and learn a lesson or two from all this? Shouldnít we all? We keep getting weekly letters from the Union giving us updates on the Company's intransigence to our concerns, but what if anything is ever done?

The AOA needs to let the Company know that now that the financial house is in order, our concerns need the same love and attention the Company give to the cabin crew.
 
 

 
raven11 is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2010, 04:26
  #13 (permalink)  
 
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Airplanerides and Raven, you make good points, but posting on the HKAOA fora is 'preaching to the choir'. It is only read by AOA members, not by the informed public, not by prospective CX pilots and not by management (I would be worried if it was). It is also not read by those I call 'passengers' (CX pilots who don't pay their dues).

Well thought-out posts here, properly checked before the 'Submit Reply' button is clicked, can get through most intelligent readers' bullsh#t filters. And if we can get just one or two of our pilots to man up and join the Association it is further proof of the magic of the internet.
Captain Dart is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2010, 04:33
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: MARS
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The AOA needs to let the Company know that now that the financial house is in order, our concerns need the same love and attention the Company give to the cabin crew.
What the AOA needs to do is DEMAND a PAYRISE,threaten to STRIKE, and actually follow through if this demand is not met!

(Now I'll wait for the usual "will you be first in line" from some of the tossers in these forums..).

Any other suggestions girls? Don't know about you, but my patience is fast wearing thin with Tyler-the-Liar and his cronies.
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Old 27th Mar 2010, 06:42
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: hong kong
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The main problem with our AOA is the LEADERSHIP.
IT NEEDS A STRUCTURAL CHANGE .
Less committee style dawdling and shadow boxing.
Can you imagine CX being run by a committee ???
Look at ourselves , looks what is going on at the moment , in the last few months , the last few years....it's all gone down hill and it's going to keep doing so until we change the way we run it.

Last edited by goathead; 27th Mar 2010 at 12:38.
goathead is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2010, 07:22
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Australia
Posts: 47
So Rook... the union isn't all but busted?
nudger is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2010, 08:42
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Asia
Posts: 162
Unhappy

Saturn said:
"THIS IS ANOTHER ASL PERIOD! The statement that more aircraft might be going as well made me wanna divert and park their fuc**** aircraft."

The problem is that bad language, implied or inferred, does not win good friends. Nor does it make the writer appear to be a "Professional".
Guava Tree is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2010, 09:25
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: 3.5 from TD
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Captain Dart:

It is people like yoU that got uS Into the situation we aRe in. Nagging about spelling and grAmmaR whEn there are more importAnt things to worry about. Let me guess, if you were on a ship and it was sinking you would be busy re-arranging deCk-chairs... not sUrprised.

Or maybe you are one of the maNy morons thaT are participating in this new ad campaign? I would love to make my own ad, but I doubt Cathay would like it.

But I guess people like you need everything spelled out...
Sqwak7700 is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2010, 11:52
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Britain
Posts: 62
the union isn't all but busted?
The AOA ceased to be a union or relevant the day Gardner and Co. abandoned the 49ers by doing a sleazy deal to benefit management. Many of those 49ers were committee members and negotiators and we were double crossed.
A video club with 1,000 members or a video club with 10,000 members is still just that: a video club.
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Old 27th Mar 2010, 11:58
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: with the other ex-CX pond scum (a zoologist was once head of Flight Ops)
Posts: 0
Read my posts carefully, Sqwak. Do you really think I would be one of those idiots promoting themselves in the company 'do it yourself' ads?

I would also be interested to know what salary scale you accepted when you joined CX ('if it wasn't for people like you...'). I'll bet London to a brick that it was less than mine.

Sonny, an important part of professional aviation is precision and attention to detail. When you post, supposedly as a Cathay Pacific pilot, your words are read by hundreds, if not thousands, including probably management.

Don't present yourself as a 'million dollar moron'.

Last edited by Captain Dart; 27th Mar 2010 at 12:41.
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