Local pilots fly off the handle at expat perks
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15 years ago I wanted to apply for the CX Cadet Training Programme, but was told that I had to have a permanent HKID in order to be considered.
I feel that it's pure discrimination, and I'm now considering suing the company for loss of potential income over the past 15 years.
Instead of wasting my time though, I found other jobs which paid for my flying ratings etc in return, and after 10 years of blood, sweat and tears, I'm now where I wanted to be.
I'm also going to ask for a reimbursement for ALL these monies spent on myself, amounting to a couple of million HK$.
What's good for the goose..is good for the gander..
I feel that it's pure discrimination, and I'm now considering suing the company for loss of potential income over the past 15 years.
Instead of wasting my time though, I found other jobs which paid for my flying ratings etc in return, and after 10 years of blood, sweat and tears, I'm now where I wanted to be.
I'm also going to ask for a reimbursement for ALL these monies spent on myself, amounting to a couple of million HK$.
What's good for the goose..is good for the gander..
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AD Posse
I can see what you are doing here...... however, to play devil's advocate...
What if you were to run you argument to the company and found, perhaps to your surprise, that after a period of stoic denial, they responded without warning, by giving you an allowance that the company had previously not paid you (in the case of CEP's; education allowance). With a bit more pushing from you, what if they offered you a monthly payment, less than what you are asking for, but nonetheless a useful bit of dosh. Faced with this, would you,
1. Say... no thanks... all or nothing
2. Thanks company, thanks AOA, it's a done deal, no more proddng
3. Thanks company, thanks AOA, trouser the dosh, but keep prodding... or...
4. Come on pprune and deal the "race-card" off the top, middle and bottom?
What if you were to run you argument to the company and found, perhaps to your surprise, that after a period of stoic denial, they responded without warning, by giving you an allowance that the company had previously not paid you (in the case of CEP's; education allowance). With a bit more pushing from you, what if they offered you a monthly payment, less than what you are asking for, but nonetheless a useful bit of dosh. Faced with this, would you,
1. Say... no thanks... all or nothing
2. Thanks company, thanks AOA, it's a done deal, no more proddng
3. Thanks company, thanks AOA, trouser the dosh, but keep prodding... or...
4. Come on pprune and deal the "race-card" off the top, middle and bottom?
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Yes AD POSSE, please sue. Have the company hire you as a cadet 15 years ago.
You will find that you have to pay back money since anyone can calculate that your career earnings now is and will be substantially more than any cadet that has been with the company for 15 years.
You will find that you have to pay back money since anyone can calculate that your career earnings now is and will be substantially more than any cadet that has been with the company for 15 years.
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Liam Gallagher
5. Throw a floor tantrum and boycott the "I cannot fly" program and all other company programs and future parades etc..chinese style!!
5. Throw a floor tantrum and boycott the "I cannot fly" program and all other company programs and future parades etc..chinese style!!
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No one has mentioned anything about the expat cabin crews, so with the same logic as that being used by the CEPs, should all locally employed cabin crew be receiving a housing allowance???
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Exactly my point, flap 10, unfortunately some didn't see the sarcasm..
Where does it stop?
Next thing the floor cleaners will be demanding a car allowance, as it's unfair and discriminatory that the boss man can be driven around, but they have to make use of public transport..
This whole thing is absolutely ridiculous, and I'm afraid no matter how hard the "mighty" AOA might be pressured into fighting this one, it's a losing battle from the start.
Start NEGOTIATING SALARY INCREASES for everyone..and you have my attention!
Where does it stop?
Next thing the floor cleaners will be demanding a car allowance, as it's unfair and discriminatory that the boss man can be driven around, but they have to make use of public transport..
This whole thing is absolutely ridiculous, and I'm afraid no matter how hard the "mighty" AOA might be pressured into fighting this one, it's a losing battle from the start.
Start NEGOTIATING SALARY INCREASES for everyone..and you have my attention!
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So local colleagues - doing the same job and checked to the same standard as you - asking for similar conditions as expats are analogous to your 'floor cleaners' and the 'boss man' example. Your bigotry is quite remarkable. 
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Yes indeed,
EXPERIENCE and QUALIFICATIONS are what's under discussion here.
I would like to believe that I'm capable of doing the same job as the CEO/COO, but reality in life is that unless you can show the papers and proof that you have the experience and "what it takes", you're not going to get the job.
"Asking for similar conditions" comes with the expertise and experience that I brought here..something that you obviously don't have as yet.
EXPERIENCE and QUALIFICATIONS are what's under discussion here.
I would like to believe that I'm capable of doing the same job as the CEO/COO, but reality in life is that unless you can show the papers and proof that you have the experience and "what it takes", you're not going to get the job.
"Asking for similar conditions" comes with the expertise and experience that I brought here..something that you obviously don't have as yet.
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TGIG
"Bigotry".... care to explain that?
I wont hold my breath waiting for your explanation because I suspect you will be like Cxorist and CXchildlabour in that you are quick to play the racecard, but suffer gonad shrinkage when asked to back it up.....
I wont hold my breath waiting for your explanation because I suspect you will be like Cxorist and CXchildlabour in that you are quick to play the racecard, but suffer gonad shrinkage when asked to back it up.....
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Letter from Management to AD POSSE AD ESSE
AD POSSE AD ESSE,
Thank you for your cadet pilot programme application 15 years ago. We have realized that we have made a huge mistake in rejecting you because we're accepting non perment HK ID card holder into the program now, thus we did discriminate you back then and would like to make that up to you.
We would like to offer you HKD $2 million as compensation for your training cost (which is substantially more than the HKD $1.2 million we quoted to the general public). However, please return all that housing allowance you have got over the years and sign onto a local terms contract which excludes your priority 4 FOC rights and education allowance outside Hong Kong. As soon as we got that money back from you and see your signature on the dotted line for the local terms contract, we shall refund you that training cost immediately. Thanks for your services over the years as an expatriate and we welcome you with warm hearts as part of the local team.
Best Regards,
NR
Thank you for your cadet pilot programme application 15 years ago. We have realized that we have made a huge mistake in rejecting you because we're accepting non perment HK ID card holder into the program now, thus we did discriminate you back then and would like to make that up to you.
We would like to offer you HKD $2 million as compensation for your training cost (which is substantially more than the HKD $1.2 million we quoted to the general public). However, please return all that housing allowance you have got over the years and sign onto a local terms contract which excludes your priority 4 FOC rights and education allowance outside Hong Kong. As soon as we got that money back from you and see your signature on the dotted line for the local terms contract, we shall refund you that training cost immediately. Thanks for your services over the years as an expatriate and we welcome you with warm hearts as part of the local team.
Best Regards,
NR
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Liam, if you don't know what the word 'bigotry' means I suggest you pick up a dictionary and find out.
If comments from IluvPX and AD POSSE's comparison of local pilots to 'floor cleaners' are not in that category then perhaps you should post your real name here and defend their comments. Show us how big your gonads are and their inverse relationship to your brain.
If comments from IluvPX and AD POSSE's comparison of local pilots to 'floor cleaners' are not in that category then perhaps you should post your real name here and defend their comments. Show us how big your gonads are and their inverse relationship to your brain.
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I would like to believe that I'm capable of doing the same job as the CEO/COO, but reality in life is that unless you can show the papers and proof that you have the experience and "what it takes", you're not going to get the job.
I wont hold my breath waiting for your explanation because I suspect you will be like Cxorist and CXchildlabour in that you are quick to play the racecard, but suffer gonad shrinkage when asked to back it up.....
thole like that guy is doing right now.
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TGIG, CXChildLabour et al. on this side of the fence
Good luck debating this topic here with civility. I have given up hope of reasoning with those that are hampered with blinkers, have a blind superiority complex and believe that you always be the ginger retard of the flight deck because of the way you came to get your job. May I suggest concentrating your efforts towards talking to the GC to find a solution that benefits the CEP position but we cannot forget the legitimate concerns and fears of the expat group, especially in light of the latest DFO update which I consider very insidious.
A.P.A.E
"5. Throw a floor tantrum and boycott the "I cannot fly" program and all other company programs and future parades etc..chinese style!!
"
Trying to prove TGIG's point about bigotry are we? I'd say you're doing a remarkable job. So when's the next cross burning seance?
Good luck debating this topic here with civility. I have given up hope of reasoning with those that are hampered with blinkers, have a blind superiority complex and believe that you always be the ginger retard of the flight deck because of the way you came to get your job. May I suggest concentrating your efforts towards talking to the GC to find a solution that benefits the CEP position but we cannot forget the legitimate concerns and fears of the expat group, especially in light of the latest DFO update which I consider very insidious.
A.P.A.E
"5. Throw a floor tantrum and boycott the "I cannot fly" program and all other company programs and future parades etc..chinese style!!
"Trying to prove TGIG's point about bigotry are we? I'd say you're doing a remarkable job. So when's the next cross burning seance?
Last edited by Mullah Lite; 15th Feb 2010 at 09:29. Reason: waste of time trying to aruge a point
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CXChildLabour:
Now that you acknowledge the discrimination against me, I would be much obliged, as soon as YOU'VE compensated ME for:
1) 15 Years of lost salaries from the time I could have joined at age 18;
2) All the money spent on self sponsorship and training;
3) Taxes paid on housing allowances received;
4) HK SAR government stamp duty, management fees, rates&taxes;
5) Lawyer fees, renovations and maintenance;
6) The difference in lifestyle between here and back home;
7) Medical expenses (present and future) for Bad Air Quality
...and I can go on and on..
As for the priority 4 FOC's, that's ONLY if I print out 2 FOC tickets per annum to my home port in Europe (which I never do, as all the flights are forever full).
Otherwise it's priority 11 FOC's to everywhere else, and EXACTLY the same that YOU are getting!
You obviously don't have kids, or you'll know that education allownaces are now paid to all ( thanks to the "fantastic" work done by the AOA )!
However, please return all that housing allowance you have got over the years and sign onto a local terms contract which excludes your priority 4 FOC rights and education allowance outside Hong Kong.
1) 15 Years of lost salaries from the time I could have joined at age 18;
2) All the money spent on self sponsorship and training;
3) Taxes paid on housing allowances received;
4) HK SAR government stamp duty, management fees, rates&taxes;
5) Lawyer fees, renovations and maintenance;
6) The difference in lifestyle between here and back home;
7) Medical expenses (present and future) for Bad Air Quality
...and I can go on and on..
As for the priority 4 FOC's, that's ONLY if I print out 2 FOC tickets per annum to my home port in Europe (which I never do, as all the flights are forever full).
Otherwise it's priority 11 FOC's to everywhere else, and EXACTLY the same that YOU are getting!
You obviously don't have kids, or you'll know that education allownaces are now paid to all ( thanks to the "fantastic" work done by the AOA )!
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TGIG
I know the meaning of bigotry; I just don't see how it is applicable in this case and note that no one has rationally tried to explain it.
CXchildlabour.... keep reading the big red words at the bottom of the page. Call Iluvpx whatever you like, however you are never going to get the opportunity to challenge him face to face. You are just coming across as an "internet hardman", just like him.
Mullah lite.... "ginger retard"..... no bigotry and pre-judgement there....
CXchildlabour.... keep reading the big red words at the bottom of the page. Call Iluvpx whatever you like, however you are never going to get the opportunity to challenge him face to face. You are just coming across as an "internet hardman", just like him.
Mullah lite.... "ginger retard"..... no bigotry and pre-judgement there....
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neither is the phraseology used by your buddy Ad Posse. So why aren't you going after him? And pardon my using a metaphor of modern popular western culture....incidentally devised by creators of your native language, not mine. I shall refrain from using such offensive comparison from now on.
Last edited by Mullah Lite; 15th Feb 2010 at 09:40.
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Mullah lite
Because you deem that Ad Posse and I hold the same views (although I doubt that we do), you profile us as "buddies" and therefore pre-judge me. If you have an issue with Ad posse, take it up with him.
Frankly, I don't care about your ginger comment, but I raise it as an illustration as to how easy it is to feign injury at someone's flippant remarks in an attempt to gain leverage in a debate.... the racecard tactic.
However, what you cannot feign is the inability of you, or anyone else, to write a coherent argument as to how the CEP is discriminatory or racist.
Frankly, I don't care about your ginger comment, but I raise it as an illustration as to how easy it is to feign injury at someone's flippant remarks in an attempt to gain leverage in a debate.... the racecard tactic.
However, what you cannot feign is the inability of you, or anyone else, to write a coherent argument as to how the CEP is discriminatory or racist.
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1) 15 Years of lost salaries from the time I could have joined at age 18;
2) All the money spent on self sponsorship and training;
3) Taxes paid on housing allowances received;
4) HK SAR government stamp duty, management fees, rates&taxes;
5) Lawyer fees, renovations and maintenance;
6) The difference in lifestyle between here and back home;
7) Medical expenses (present and future) for Bad Air Quality
2) All the money spent on self sponsorship and training;
3) Taxes paid on housing allowances received;
4) HK SAR government stamp duty, management fees, rates&taxes;
5) Lawyer fees, renovations and maintenance;
6) The difference in lifestyle between here and back home;
7) Medical expenses (present and future) for Bad Air Quality
2) That's what that 2 million I offered is for, in case u couldn't read properly.
3) Sure, you can deduct that part out of ur repayment if you want, it'd still cost us less.
4), 5) Why may I ask? Is that not the cost for CEP's when they need a place to live?
6) If you chose the cadet route, that means you chose to live in HKG, just like what we told those cadets who applied from and lived overseas their whole life.
7) Are you dying from the bad air? I'm sorry to hear that, let me check if your CEP counterparts have the same problem and shall get back to you on that one.
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Mullah Lite, cxchild, TGIG.
Just an honest question,
Can you put your hand on your heart and call Hong Kong home??
If so, then regardless of what the outcome is, it is still not a bad deal. There is a lot to be said for being 'home', no need to get so uptight.
if not, then what exactly were you thinking coming to Hong Kong knowing that you would be on a 'local' package?? Personally, even if it meant a free licence, I still would not have come here unless there were certain financial perks.
Just an honest question,
Can you put your hand on your heart and call Hong Kong home??
If so, then regardless of what the outcome is, it is still not a bad deal. There is a lot to be said for being 'home', no need to get so uptight.
if not, then what exactly were you thinking coming to Hong Kong knowing that you would be on a 'local' package?? Personally, even if it meant a free licence, I still would not have come here unless there were certain financial perks.
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Liam
I'm still not seeing you go after him for his 'chinese style' remark. So please excuse me if I see a double standard in being quick to attack me and not him.
In all of my arguments here for improvement to the CEP income, I have never played the race card. It is an illegitimate argument. I will, however, lob nasty eggs back from where they came. Comments like those above would fall under that category.
I'm not feigning an inability....just because you and I don't share the same viewpoint does not mean either of us is wrong....you and I are seeing things from across a divide, and therefore we leave this to a third party to decide who is or is not making a valid argument.
I'm still not seeing you go after him for his 'chinese style' remark. So please excuse me if I see a double standard in being quick to attack me and not him.
In all of my arguments here for improvement to the CEP income, I have never played the race card. It is an illegitimate argument. I will, however, lob nasty eggs back from where they came. Comments like those above would fall under that category.
I'm not feigning an inability....just because you and I don't share the same viewpoint does not mean either of us is wrong....you and I are seeing things from across a divide, and therefore we leave this to a third party to decide who is or is not making a valid argument.