Why ISM's think it is unsafe to start service?
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One wouldn't dare be Condescending to you suzie my dear.
Now run along and get us a cappuccino would you darlin'?
What was that about tongue in cheek comments going over the top and out the door?
Now run along and get us a cappuccino would you darlin'?
What was that about tongue in cheek comments going over the top and out the door?
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SloppyJoe,
OF course the ISM is in charge of cabin service! Whoever, disobeys her/him then that cabin crew will surely have a hell of a flight to remember. That's the CX way!
And, why didn't you ask the ISM the first place?
n.dave
OF course the ISM is in charge of cabin service! Whoever, disobeys her/him then that cabin crew will surely have a hell of a flight to remember. That's the CX way!
And, why didn't you ask the ISM the first place?
n.dave
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Easy does it
Weatherman (Ron B.) :
Out of curiosity, what would be the deck angle limits that you use ? Have you ever not cycled the signs because the deck angle was too high ?
I think that crew here are far to quick to cycle the signs. On a quick TPE there may be a need but not on anything else !!
.25
FG
And there I was thinking that picture box up the front with blue and brown and a cross in the middle told us what the angle was. All along I should have been asking the chief and ignoring the fancy pictures
I think that crew here are far to quick to cycle the signs. On a quick TPE there may be a need but not on anything else !!
.25
FG
ISMs have spend many thousands of hours serving in the cabin. They are by their experience, very knowledgeable and capable with regards to their jobs and also as to what can be accomplished and under what conditions. They rely on us cockpit crew to protect them from injury when we judge the conditions such that they should secure the cabin and be seated.
However, the ISM is empowered to direct the service be suspended or modified if they perceived a risky situation to be developing, even if the cockpit crew have not perceived or recognized any risk.
Some times the cabin service will be dealing with near boiling fluids being poured at the pax seat and at other times merely handing out bottled water with caps. The risk varies during the service...
If any cockpit crew thinks that he/she could do a better job in the cabin, then perhaps you might consider quitting your flight deck job and rejoin as cabin crew at the lowest grade and work your way through to ISM.
Work with your ISM and look after her/him, seek her/his counsel and they will most certainly look after you. This will ensure that you will have a safe, happy and rewarding fright (flight).
However, the ISM is empowered to direct the service be suspended or modified if they perceived a risky situation to be developing, even if the cockpit crew have not perceived or recognized any risk.
Some times the cabin service will be dealing with near boiling fluids being poured at the pax seat and at other times merely handing out bottled water with caps. The risk varies during the service...
If any cockpit crew thinks that he/she could do a better job in the cabin, then perhaps you might consider quitting your flight deck job and rejoin as cabin crew at the lowest grade and work your way through to ISM.
Work with your ISM and look after her/him, seek her/his counsel and they will most certainly look after you. This will ensure that you will have a safe, happy and rewarding fright (flight).
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Flex
Hear, hear...
"A pilot dies and goes to hell (as we all do). In the waiting room he sees 3 doors and decides to take a peek. Behind door one there a crew perpetually fighting multiple emergencies and sweating bullets in a sim. Behind door two there's a crew in a never ending long haul night flight, with no relief crew, forced to stay awake. Behind door three there's a crew chatting up two hot hosties on their lap and being poured coffees and served food by two more.
Satan eventually arrives: -Alright, here's the deal, you pick one door, you get in and you stay there 'til the end of times.
-Oh well in that case I'd like door 3 please.
-No, no. Door three is flight attendants' hell."
Hear, hear...
"A pilot dies and goes to hell (as we all do). In the waiting room he sees 3 doors and decides to take a peek. Behind door one there a crew perpetually fighting multiple emergencies and sweating bullets in a sim. Behind door two there's a crew in a never ending long haul night flight, with no relief crew, forced to stay awake. Behind door three there's a crew chatting up two hot hosties on their lap and being poured coffees and served food by two more.
Satan eventually arrives: -Alright, here's the deal, you pick one door, you get in and you stay there 'til the end of times.
-Oh well in that case I'd like door 3 please.
-No, no. Door three is flight attendants' hell."
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Flexible Response,
I wouldn't argue that the girls have a handle on the level of turbulence required to spill a coffee.
I think the question is one of logic.......how can the ISM have any idea of the impending turbulence levels after the signs have been cycled? They have no information on turbulence other than what is being experienced at the time....but it seems like some ISMs will 'wait and see' before allowing the crew to work.
Really annoys me when I'm on first rest........if the ISM waits for too long, I've got to stare at that wan*er in the sandals rotating his ankles and walking on the spot in the park prior to starting my movie!!!
It's all about me!
lmh
PS......wongsuzie: You and your ilk do a fantastic job, and I appreciate it immensely. One quick point though......coffee should never, EVER, be served with cream!
I wouldn't argue that the girls have a handle on the level of turbulence required to spill a coffee.
I think the question is one of logic.......how can the ISM have any idea of the impending turbulence levels after the signs have been cycled? They have no information on turbulence other than what is being experienced at the time....but it seems like some ISMs will 'wait and see' before allowing the crew to work.
Really annoys me when I'm on first rest........if the ISM waits for too long, I've got to stare at that wan*er in the sandals rotating his ankles and walking on the spot in the park prior to starting my movie!!!
It's all about me!
lmh
PS......wongsuzie: You and your ilk do a fantastic job, and I appreciate it immensely. One quick point though......coffee should never, EVER, be served with cream!
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OK, lets look at actual reality, for cabin staff.
The senior cabin gal/guys runs the show in back.
Captains (and other FD personnel) in reality have no say in the matter, nor should they.
And, if these FD types butt in, they should think twice (if that's possible at CX
)...cabin service is not especially easy, when things go wrong...bouncing around like a cork in the ocean, for example.
Leave the cabin staff alone to DO their designated job.
Full stop.
For FD folks to interfere is the height of poor/self-serving 'responsibility.'
IE: total cr*p.
We hire professional CC folks at our company, and I let them...DO THEIR JOB.
No complaints from our end.
The senior cabin gal/guys runs the show in back.
Captains (and other FD personnel) in reality have no say in the matter, nor should they.
And, if these FD types butt in, they should think twice (if that's possible at CX
)...cabin service is not especially easy, when things go wrong...bouncing around like a cork in the ocean, for example.Leave the cabin staff alone to DO their designated job.
Full stop.
For FD folks to interfere is the height of poor/self-serving 'responsibility.'
IE: total cr*p.
We hire professional CC folks at our company, and I let them...DO THEIR JOB.
No complaints from our end.
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I was not saying that we should get involved with what goes on in the cabin as it is the ISM's job to run the show nor was I saying they do a bad job. Just dont understand what they are waiting for. Last flight I was on belts got cycled then there was an instant bing bong and all the crew started working, that is how it should be unless there is a reason that the cockpit crew are not aware of, I just have never seen the reason for the wait on the flights I am a pax on. Maybe I have not spent enough time in the back to know what 20+ years of experience tells someone that it may get bumpy and even though pax are wondering around it would be too dangerous to let the crew work. Only reason I think it is a bad thing is because it looks unprofessional and a break down in communication.
If the ISM has had a look at the weather and sees a huge wind increase at 10K then ok, that would be a very fair reason to wait till above 10K to let the crew out, other than looking at the weather before the flight I cannot understand how someone knows what may happen and why it is best to wait 10 minutes after the belts are cycled in smooth air at 5K.
If the ISM has had a look at the weather and sees a huge wind increase at 10K then ok, that would be a very fair reason to wait till above 10K to let the crew out, other than looking at the weather before the flight I cannot understand how someone knows what may happen and why it is best to wait 10 minutes after the belts are cycled in smooth air at 5K.
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Well said 411A!
The reason is mostly the deck angle. Until acceleration past 250 thru 10,000 or whatever it happens to be for the airspace, the deck angle is simply too high for walking around in heels, opening galley compartment and cart doors, or rolling those heavy carts around the cabin especially for our CC girls who are pretty much all... not big girls! So unless you have tried to do what they do in heels, it's easy to understand why the confusion. It's really up to them to decide when it's safe and comfortable to get up as far as deck angle or turbulence level since it affects them, not us. All we're doing is letting them know WE think it's safe to move around from where we're sitting, pretty and strapped in. Try taking a piss before 10,000 feet next time seeing how akward it is and then imagine yourself trying to serve drinks and push carts at half the size you are. If you think you should be able to tell others how to do their job when you are not qualified to do it yourself nor have you any experience doing it, you've got some micro-management sickness issues. Just relax.
cheers
The reason is mostly the deck angle. Until acceleration past 250 thru 10,000 or whatever it happens to be for the airspace, the deck angle is simply too high for walking around in heels, opening galley compartment and cart doors, or rolling those heavy carts around the cabin especially for our CC girls who are pretty much all... not big girls! So unless you have tried to do what they do in heels, it's easy to understand why the confusion. It's really up to them to decide when it's safe and comfortable to get up as far as deck angle or turbulence level since it affects them, not us. All we're doing is letting them know WE think it's safe to move around from where we're sitting, pretty and strapped in. Try taking a piss before 10,000 feet next time seeing how akward it is and then imagine yourself trying to serve drinks and push carts at half the size you are. If you think you should be able to tell others how to do their job when you are not qualified to do it yourself nor have you any experience doing it, you've got some micro-management sickness issues. Just relax.
cheers
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So that must mean some ISM's with 20+ years experience think it is ok and are putting the cabin crew at risk. The acceleration rarely happens at 10,000 it is usually before the belts are cycled. Have not been in the company that long but don't think it has ever been at 10,000 that the aircraft has accelerated. I know it really does not matter in the scheme of things but just looks so stupid when pax who are paying 10,000's $ get told that they cant have a drink as it is not ok for the cabin crew to get one for them even though they are free to wander around and do as they wish. If this is the case why don't we move the seatbelt sign back to the ISM's panel? If it is about deck angle why not tell us what this deck angle is and when it is below that and unlikely to go above it again, something no ISM would know, we can cycle the belts. If it is about safety why are we not given better guidelines about when to cycle the belts so that we can make sure that some of these very experienced ISM's who behave so carelessly by allowing the cabin crew to start work as soon as we are above the MSA and cycle the belts do not endanger the crew on every sector they operate with this reckless attitude to working with a high deck angle?
I am not saying I know better and would not want to do their job I just don't understand what the point of this is and what some ISM's (a lot it seems) are waiting for as it looks really stupid from a passengers point of view, that is all. I do not want to tell them how to do their job and respect that they have a lot of experience and have been doing this since I was a toddler.
I am not saying I know better and would not want to do their job I just don't understand what the point of this is and what some ISM's (a lot it seems) are waiting for as it looks really stupid from a passengers point of view, that is all. I do not want to tell them how to do their job and respect that they have a lot of experience and have been doing this since I was a toddler.
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Unfortunately so many things look stupid from a passenger's point of view and thats even when I as aircrew am a passenger. Sitting next to the galley and hearing cabin crew talk about certain passengers or shopping or doing their nails does not come across as sounding very professional....but then look at the Cathay now compared to the Cathay 20years ago. It is two different airlines in practically every respect.
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Thats all we need is Air Profit to cry to the moderators again and have this thread deleted as well!
What in gods name is happening when even "rumours" are being deleted on a rumour forum! Yes the rumour of a god!
What in gods name is happening when even "rumours" are being deleted on a rumour forum! Yes the rumour of a god!
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Sloppyjoe,
I was talking about the restriction of 250 kts. or less until 10,000' being the most common altitude for accelerating past 250. There's a very noticable pitch attitude change at that point. And you don't need a attitude indicator to notice it.
I was talking about the restriction of 250 kts. or less until 10,000' being the most common altitude for accelerating past 250. There's a very noticable pitch attitude change at that point. And you don't need a attitude indicator to notice it.
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so was I, very rare that we stay under 250kts under 10K. Not been in the company that long so not that many sectors and all are when we are pretty heavy but dont think I have ever been on a flight where we were waiting for 10,000 to go past 250kts as we are usually doing 285+ by that point. Normally under 5K or there about we accelerate.