HKATC Safety
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HKATC Safety
Anyone have any knowledge of a serious airprox on the 15th October at about 9pm local on final approach for 07R.
Not a jurno,just an Atco ex HKATC who always thought safety there was not up to scratch.
Not a jurno,just an Atco ex HKATC who always thought safety there was not up to scratch.
Serious? Are you kidding? Gotta be much worse than that before we call it serious here! 
Besides, we're short of staff so we can't afford to have people off for a week, can we? 
Besides, we're short of staff so we can't afford to have people off for a week, can we?
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I've been hearing some new voices of the American type. Gotta say, it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. Welcome to Hongkers boys, glad to have you here to spread some much needed common sense. 
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sqwak.....
Your American controllers, that you are glad to hear are not without fault. In fact, the controllers in the USA are some of the most non-standard we hear world-wide.
They think everyone has local knowledge - clearances to places, not three letter identifiers (East Texas, Moro Bay). Look through the FM for that when your tired!
In addition, many are quite arrogant. If the controllers in JFK are non-standard, how can they give Air China a hard time when they don't understand. This is what happens however. I've heard it first hand. I could understand both of them, but they couldn't understand each other. And it wasn't soly the Chinese's fault.
I welcome these new controllers as well, but have no problems with our local controllers who are standard, and enable all nationalities to operate safely.
Your American controllers, that you are glad to hear are not without fault. In fact, the controllers in the USA are some of the most non-standard we hear world-wide.
They think everyone has local knowledge - clearances to places, not three letter identifiers (East Texas, Moro Bay). Look through the FM for that when your tired!
In addition, many are quite arrogant. If the controllers in JFK are non-standard, how can they give Air China a hard time when they don't understand. This is what happens however. I've heard it first hand. I could understand both of them, but they couldn't understand each other. And it wasn't soly the Chinese's fault.
I welcome these new controllers as well, but have no problems with our local controllers who are standard, and enable all nationalities to operate safely.
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7700,
They won't be new controllers.HKCAD isn't hiring expats,so they probably have run out of offices to hide in.
Unless they smuggled them in on the QT.
Talking of Americans,that highlighted one of the problems there.There was no standard way of doing things.All the nationalities working/co-ordinating their way,and the locals stuck in the middle.Also locals co-ordinating in Cantonese.That was/is a big because English speakers cannot monitor what is being said.The worse CRM/TRM possible.
They won't be new controllers.HKCAD isn't hiring expats,so they probably have run out of offices to hide in.
Unless they smuggled them in on the QT.Talking of Americans,that highlighted one of the problems there.There was no standard way of doing things.All the nationalities working/co-ordinating their way,and the locals stuck in the middle.Also locals co-ordinating in Cantonese.That was/is a big
because English speakers cannot monitor what is being said.The worse CRM/TRM possible.
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...Your American controllers, that you are glad to hear are not without fault. In fact, the controllers in the USA are some of the most non-standard we hear world-wide...
In addition, many are quite arrogant. If the controllers in JFK are non-standard, how can they give Air China a hard time when they don't understand.
...I welcome these new controllers as well, but have no problems with our local controllers who are standard, and enable all nationalities to operate safely...
give you a complex taxi instruction on landing rollout.
ATC and my captain at the time were a little miffed when I asked them to leave it till later
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Sqwak 7700
"I've been hearing some new voices of the American type"
Listening to RTHK frequency by mistake ???
Lots of American drawls there .....
"I've been hearing some new voices of the American type"
Listening to RTHK frequency by mistake ???
Lots of American drawls there .....
Last edited by mr Q; 21st Oct 2009 at 09:52. Reason: mistake in spelling
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What exatly is this "STANDARD" everyone is talking about so much? ICAO? CAP 413? Vol2Part2?.. You fly to a country - you have to know the local lingo, which every country has the right to invent and use.
US controllers are very standard as far as US rules are concerned. Again, that goes for every country/region. Whatever is standard at CX goes a long way to help solve issues, but don't expect the ATCs worldwide to apply our rules.
US controllers are very standard as far as US rules are concerned. Again, that goes for every country/region. Whatever is standard at CX goes a long way to help solve issues, but don't expect the ATCs worldwide to apply our rules.
You fly to a country - you have to know the local lingo, which every country has the right to invent and use.
Thought that was the whole point of standard phraseology! So you don't have to do that!
Stick around for Act 2 yesterday Throw.
The boys have some new procedures for us tomorrow. Should add to the excitement.
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T101.....CX flies to around 50 different countries. We're supposed to know the "local lingo" in all these different cities in all the different countries?
That is why there are standards as someone alluded to.
In North America the words : maintaining and requesting are never used by North American pilots; then they wonder why they have difficulty in Taipei airspace.....
That is why there are standards as someone alluded to.
In North America the words : maintaining and requesting are never used by North American pilots; then they wonder why they have difficulty in Taipei airspace.....
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Again, what standard is that? Is it ICAO radio phraseology, CAP 413 or CX Vol2Part2 to name a few? My point is - there is no "STANDARD" that's going to cover the entire world. Americans have difficulties in Taipei, sure, but the Taiwanese have difficulties in the US - who's non-standard here?
And yes, 4driver, technically, we do! CX flies to 50 countries - tough on us, we have to know how things are done in all of them. Just like the Rules of the Air - ICAO lays down the framework, but all member states are free to modify it to suit their local needs. I believe only the Oceanic airspace is strictly ICAO as far as radio work goes (still, Atlantic and Pacific, for example, are not exactly the same), but cross any border - you are in someone else's airspace, and THEIR standard applies.
Just one more thing for us to bitch about, I guess.
And yes, 4driver, technically, we do! CX flies to 50 countries - tough on us, we have to know how things are done in all of them. Just like the Rules of the Air - ICAO lays down the framework, but all member states are free to modify it to suit their local needs. I believe only the Oceanic airspace is strictly ICAO as far as radio work goes (still, Atlantic and Pacific, for example, are not exactly the same), but cross any border - you are in someone else's airspace, and THEIR standard applies.
Just one more thing for us to bitch about, I guess.
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If the controllers in JFK are non-standard, how can they give Air China a hard time when they don't understand.
"Have you been clear to the ramp?" is not that hard to understand
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capt787
Actually it is quite hard to understand
Is it a question being asked (by ATC?) whether you have been clear and precise in your instructions/RT conversation with ramp control?
Then again, we are talking Yanks here, where ANYTHING is possible, even a BLACK president running the WHITE house..
"Have you been clear to the ramp?" is not that hard to understand
Is it a question being asked (by ATC?) whether you have been clear and precise in your instructions/RT conversation with ramp control?
Then again, we are talking Yanks here, where ANYTHING is possible, even a BLACK president running the WHITE house..
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lee.ho.ma,
Are you a mole from the 4th floor.What I know is not the issue.All I'll say is that the incident would have seemed to have been covered up by the HKCAD.Probably because they like to fire people they don't like,and those who have grave concerns about the safety standards.
I'm not there now.I saw some howlers in my time there,and this was up to standard.If I were flying in and out of there I would be a bit nervous,if this incident is the norm.
Jonathon68.
Two aircraft got very close to colliding.But not in a way that you would think in a Final Approach Area.
Are you a mole from the 4th floor
.What I know is not the issue.All I'll say is that the incident would have seemed to have been covered up by the HKCAD.Probably because they like to fire people they don't like,and those who have grave concerns about the safety standards.I'm not there now.I saw some howlers in my time there,and this was up to standard.If I were flying in and out of there I would be a bit nervous,if this incident is the norm.
Jonathon68.
Two aircraft got very close to colliding.But not in a way that you would think in a Final Approach Area.