SO Bypass Pay Case
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
LEPs jumping on board now because they have finally seen the light. Fed up with false promises from DFO they finally can see how being amongst the majority will help their cause. Coincidentally the same week they join, DFO offers CEA!!! Happy for the LEPs to come on board but guys remember there is more to this than just housing and CEA, we need your long term commitment for any chance to improve things across the board!!!
A good week for the AOA, bad week for Flaps10 , squawk7700, iLuvPX etc!!!
A good week for the AOA, bad week for Flaps10 , squawk7700, iLuvPX etc!!!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 743
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
Point of Order - What's in a name?
Sorry chaps, AOA members will recall a recent email from the president, dated 30 June 2009, stating that :
and :
As a result, since 30 June, I have been referring to these new members as CEPs
it is wrong to distinguish between local and other pilots.
As such the HKAOA will refer to them as Cadet Entry Pilots (CEP).
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 249
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
A good week for the AOA, bad week for Flaps10 , squawk7700, iLuvPX etc!!!
Good win for the AoA, I'll give credit where credit is due! However, a bit comical when 99% of AoA members took SLS. Who do you think just funded the court case?? Who do you think is going to be out of pocket?? The company, or the lot of you that gave 16% of your salary back to the company.
You can puff your chest out now, but you can hide behind AoA lawyers only for so long, when the company starts playing hardball, are you going to stand your ground, or cave in like you did with the 49ers, SLS, etc.....
Talk is cheap, I'll see where you stand when the sh!t hits the fan.
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
Secondly - not to stir the pot here - but can the sudden joining of LEP's have something to do with the SO and coming FO bypass cases - are they jumping on the train now before it leaves the station only because they see a possible gain for themselves..... ???
The chance is you probably don't need to be a member to get backpay if the court case is won anyway.I think you owe the CEPs a public apology.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
From: A Happy Place
Guys, this is only the first round. They will appeal and the Swire lawyers will now fight over every last detail and interpretation. I am happy too, but be ready for a fight. These bast@#ds don't give anything up without a fight.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
At least the CEPs joined, they could have sat back let us do all the work and then organize themselves a lawyer etc.
Flaps10, welcome back, your absence was noted, thanks for your negativity in this otherwise positive forum for the pilots as a whole. You give credit then lambast the very organisation who worked hard at this court case. SLS whether you like it or not was a reasonable step in the current climate, sure the company muddied the waters but look around and read the papers, alot of crap going on in the world.
Anyway, you can grizzle all you want as you normally do.
Well done again SW and AOA, if anything else we have proved to the company they can't get away with everything!!!!
Flaps10, welcome back, your absence was noted, thanks for your negativity in this otherwise positive forum for the pilots as a whole. You give credit then lambast the very organisation who worked hard at this court case. SLS whether you like it or not was a reasonable step in the current climate, sure the company muddied the waters but look around and read the papers, alot of crap going on in the world.
Anyway, you can grizzle all you want as you normally do.
Well done again SW and AOA, if anything else we have proved to the company they can't get away with everything!!!!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 322
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
SLS whether you like it or not was a reasonable step in the current climate, sure the company muddied the waters but look around and read the papers, alot of crap going on in the world.
So you actually volunteered for SLS believing all the propaganda about the company being in a cash crisis, but yet you revel at the fact that the company will now have to spend more and don't seem to have a problem with the company wasting valuable funds on a case that the SOs and FOs were rightly entitled to?????? You make so much sense???
I think you're prepping yourself for another round of shafting, or maybe trying to justify the reasons why you volunteered for SLS, at least be a man and fess up to the real reasons why everyone volunteered for SLS!
you give a lot of credence to Flaps10!
Last edited by Dragon69; 4th July 2009 at 08:34.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
From: Canada
So what does all this mean?
It's easy to say that the SO's won the case, but at the end of the day the company will now have to pay all eligible SO's as JFO's. Fine.
But what will they do next? Have 60% of the SO's making JFO wages? Will Cathay decide that it's too expensive and upgrade all the SO's to JFO? I mean at least they can be utilized as more than a seat warmer. After all if they are already paying them as JFO's, well then they may as well be JFO's...
No?
It's easy to say that the SO's won the case, but at the end of the day the company will now have to pay all eligible SO's as JFO's. Fine.
But what will they do next? Have 60% of the SO's making JFO wages? Will Cathay decide that it's too expensive and upgrade all the SO's to JFO? I mean at least they can be utilized as more than a seat warmer. After all if they are already paying them as JFO's, well then they may as well be JFO's...
No?
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,410
Likes: 0
From: HKG
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
From: Lion rock bottom
After all if they are already paying them as JFO's, well then they may as well be JFO's...
What would I do now if I was management...? hmmm... Let's see:
Appeal the hell out of every verdict that comes on the matter for the foreseable future, even if that cost me more than the actual BPP, and offer all the SO's on the case immediate upgrades in return for dropping the case, and threaten to delay their upgrades indefinitely/fail their assessments if they refuse.
...Yeah, sounds about right.
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,424
Likes: 0
From: Smogsville
Secondly - not to stir the pot here - but can the sudden joining of LEP's have something to do with the SO and coming FO bypass cases - are they jumping on the train now before it leaves the station only because they see a possible gain for themselves..... ???
Last edited by SMOC; 4th July 2009 at 15:33.
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
From: Canada
Hey Fenwicks,
Before you start slagging someone, make sure you get their name right. I'm Flaps10 and if you read my post history you'll see that I am NOT the one you are referring to.
Flap10 is the one you are after!
He's the one in the wrong, it's "FLAPS10", not "FLAP10" as my trainers have pointed out! Or wait, is it the other way around?
as I've been on PRUNE a couple of years longer...perhaps FLAP10 should change his username!
Cheers all...
P.S. Here's one for the rumour mill. On my flight the other day it was mentioned, (by someone with ties to management) that CX is gearing up for layoffs in late August early September. 10% by order of seniority.
Before you start slagging someone, make sure you get their name right. I'm Flaps10 and if you read my post history you'll see that I am NOT the one you are referring to.
Flap10 is the one you are after!
He's the one in the wrong, it's "FLAPS10", not "FLAP10" as my trainers have pointed out! Or wait, is it the other way around?
as I've been on PRUNE a couple of years longer...perhaps FLAP10 should change his username!
Cheers all...
P.S. Here's one for the rumour mill. On my flight the other day it was mentioned, (by someone with ties to management) that CX is gearing up for layoffs in late August early September. 10% by order of seniority.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
From: Hong Kong
Flaps10, absolutely right, my apologies sir, i should have checked!!
Dragon69, not trying to justify, convince or anything else. I saw the rationale in what the AOA was saying. Considering the current economic climate, this was not a fight worth taking on at the moment. I did not like it any more than you but i can see the benefit in moving on and fighting other battles. Point in case the SO BPP!!
Anyway, this thread is about success and a win for the AOA!! I was hoping for even the most negative of our bretheren to at least acknowledge that, otherwise they are surely just hoping we fail so as to prove their negative points!
Dragon69, not trying to justify, convince or anything else. I saw the rationale in what the AOA was saying. Considering the current economic climate, this was not a fight worth taking on at the moment. I did not like it any more than you but i can see the benefit in moving on and fighting other battles. Point in case the SO BPP!!
Anyway, this thread is about success and a win for the AOA!! I was hoping for even the most negative of our bretheren to at least acknowledge that, otherwise they are surely just hoping we fail so as to prove their negative points!
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 898
Likes: 0
From: No where
Let's put a stop to a vicous rumour right away: categorically, definately, positively the company is NOT planning to lay off any pilots. The loads are high, the yield is starting to increase and the cost of laying off and rehiring is astronomical. They just went through the charade of SLS to PREVENT layoffs. What hope would they every have in the future if they layed off staff just after saying that SLS was to prevent it. If anything, they will start hiring again early in the new year. Ps, some nice shiny new a/c are close to being ordered.