Expat Pilots to be Taxed?
Forget about the 23AG & 91/180 day rules,
cheers
caneworm
Labor doesn’t control the Senate. There are already a few items in the budget that the Coalition with support of the conservative independents will block. They will also block anything else that is varied from the budget without their consent.
Am I worried about worldwide tax for Australian citizens? No. The government has already made it very clear the intent of this budgetary item. I never have nor will I ever believe in conspiracy theories unless irrefutable evidence is available to me. It is abundantly clear here there isn’t any.
Labor doesn’t control the Senate. There are already a few items in the budget that the Coalition with support of the conservative independents will block. They will also block anything else that is varied from the budget without their consent.
Am I worried about worldwide tax for Australian citizens? No. The government has already made it very clear the intent of this budgetary item. I never have nor will I ever believe in conspiracy theories unless irrefutable evidence is available to me. It is abundantly clear here there isn’t any.
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Always entertaining listening to people who believe that Tax Law will remain stable and uniform over long time frames. As the world slips into the greatest economic collapse of the modern era, governments will become ever more deperate to obtain any and all income that they can. Simple question: if it is ok for the US to tax it's citizens world wide, why would it not be an obvious step for other governments? It will not be long before there is an announced change in Aus pertaining to the taxation of worldwide assets. Time will tell who is right. 
Air Profit
I never said it did. I do have a fair idea how the tax laws in Australia have changed over the years having been an accountant. Quite frankly it amuses me those that get on here and dribble on about conspiracy theories like this. Almost all prove to be unfounded.
For the record the US doesn’t tax all non residents. For those that do fall into the narrow band that do, they are in the minority.
The fact is 95% of governments don’t and won’t because they can’t. The main reason the US can get away with it is because of their economic clout in enforcing it in foreign jurisdictions and knowing that most Americans are very reluctant to ever give up their citizenship.
This is pure speculation on your part that can’t be backed up with any factual evidence.
Always entertaining listening to people who believe that Tax Law will remain stable and uniform over long time frames.
Simple question: if it is ok for the US to tax it's citizens world wide, why would it not be an obvious step for other governments?
The fact is 95% of governments don’t and won’t because they can’t. The main reason the US can get away with it is because of their economic clout in enforcing it in foreign jurisdictions and knowing that most Americans are very reluctant to ever give up their citizenship.
It will not be long before there is an announced change in Aus pertaining to the taxation of worldwide assets.
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404,
There's no conspiracy theory here, it's going to happen. The extent & magnitude remains to be seen and it beggars belief how anyone can say, at this stage, that it will not affect them.
A simple change in the wording in the tax legislation, from Australian resident to Australian citizen may be enough to make life interesting for us.
Instead of proclaiming (several times now) that your an accountant and "she'll be right", perhaps you should be offering advice on how best to prepare for the worst whilst hoping for the best.
There's no conspiracy theory here, it's going to happen. The extent & magnitude remains to be seen and it beggars belief how anyone can say, at this stage, that it will not affect them.
A simple change in the wording in the tax legislation, from Australian resident to Australian citizen may be enough to make life interesting for us.
Instead of proclaiming (several times now) that your an accountant and "she'll be right", perhaps you should be offering advice on how best to prepare for the worst whilst hoping for the best.
Last edited by caneworm; 13th Jun 2009 at 00:56.
caneworm
Says who? You? Care to back this up with facts rather than just your opinion?
First of all it will take more than just a simple change in the wording from “Resident” to “Citizen” to allow it to happen. Secondly I can count at least three times in the past when governments have discussed doing just this and it was advised to them by Treasury that the revenue raised would be far outweighed by the cost of trying to enforce it to make it worthwhile. Unlike the US that has several million of its citizens living abroad we only have several hundred thousand. If you then remove those that earn less than about AUD$85000.00 (yes that’s right, American expats that earn less than about USD$85000.00 abroad don’t pay world wide tax) and spouses who probably don’t work at all, you are left with a very small core of Australians you can actually tax. Lastly most Australian expats work in the UK where the tax rates are comparable to Australia. With a reciprocal tax treaty between Australia and the UK, how much tax do you thing would be raised?
Now I am fairly fortunate. My wife has dual citizenship. If push came to shove I would drop my Australian citizenship in a heart beat if the Australian government tried it on. It should also be pointed out that, with the exception of HK most other countries will allow foreigners to become citizens when they have lived and worked there long enough. I doubt any Australian government would potentially risk loosing the huge tax windfall that is currently generated when Australian expats finally retire and move back home.
There's no conspiracy theory here, it's going to happen.
A simple change in the wording in the tax legislation, from Australian resident to Australian citizen may be enough to make life interesting for us.
Instead of proclaiming (several times now) that your an accountant and "she'll be right", perhaps you should be offering advice on how best to prepare for the worst whilst hoping for the best.
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Titan.....of course, we all know how rational governments can be when they get desperate...don't we? What you seem to believe is so unthinkable is everyday reality for 400 million Americans. I'd be a bit more concerned about what's coming if I were you...
Air Profit
Unlike the US government, I wouldn’t classify the Australian government as desperate. Yes they will be running a deficit for a number of years, but they are also starting from a base of no government debt.
First of all the population of the US is 260 million not 400 million. Of the approximately 3 million US expats less than 500000 pay world wide tax as most live and work in countries that have higher marginal rates of tax than the US and also have tax treaties. Of the 300000 thousand Australians that are expats, most live in the UK where the tax rates are similar to Australia and with the tax treaty with the UK most wouldn’t be liable for Australian tax. Remember world wide tax isn’t double taxation. Just like the US does with its expats, they would get a tax credit for tax paid in their country of residence. So with this information at hand, how much tax do you think the Australian government would get if they were to legislate world wide tax and how much do you thing it will cost them to collect it? A hint. The cost of collecting it will be more than the revenue raised. This is straight from the Treasury Department who advise the Federal Government and this is what they have told them. Until the population of Australian expats significantly increases, it isn’t worth the government’s limited resources to try and tax them. That is the hard and cold facts.
Unlike the US government, I wouldn’t classify the Australian government as desperate. Yes they will be running a deficit for a number of years, but they are also starting from a base of no government debt.
First of all the population of the US is 260 million not 400 million. Of the approximately 3 million US expats less than 500000 pay world wide tax as most live and work in countries that have higher marginal rates of tax than the US and also have tax treaties. Of the 300000 thousand Australians that are expats, most live in the UK where the tax rates are similar to Australia and with the tax treaty with the UK most wouldn’t be liable for Australian tax. Remember world wide tax isn’t double taxation. Just like the US does with its expats, they would get a tax credit for tax paid in their country of residence. So with this information at hand, how much tax do you think the Australian government would get if they were to legislate world wide tax and how much do you thing it will cost them to collect it? A hint. The cost of collecting it will be more than the revenue raised. This is straight from the Treasury Department who advise the Federal Government and this is what they have told them. Until the population of Australian expats significantly increases, it isn’t worth the government’s limited resources to try and tax them. That is the hard and cold facts.
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Titan some advice, save your breath!!
The US Gov was responsible for 911 & Elvis still lives and pays tax on his world wide income.
You guys are reading too much into this!
The US Gov was responsible for 911 & Elvis still lives and pays tax on his world wide income.
You guys are reading too much into this!
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On Sat Australian, the treasury has admitted that the cancellation of 23 AG is going to cost them more money to enforce than the money they will collect. They have admitted in the article that the reason they do not peruse tax of Australians overseas is that it is too costly to enforce.
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Frogman, funny how you guys can't see the contradiction in what you are saying (and what the Aus govt is saying). The Gov says that cancelling 23AG is going to 'cost them more than they raise'... Sure, but they STILL went ahead and changed the tax system in a major way (..and frankly, I don't believe their claims about it costing them more than they raise). If they made this change, then what is going to stop them from making other major changes? Also, nothing difficult in making the change. The Govt only has to enact a law making it illegal to not declare overseas income, and pay tax on same....as per the USA. I am at a loss why you seem to think that this is somehow an impossiblilty...?? It is all quite simple and easily enforced in the US. I can't see why it couldn't also be in AUS. The other reason you are ignoring is in respect of percieved 'fairness'. If they raise taxes on Aus residents, they would need to show that Australians who have left are not exempt, otherwise it creates an implied persuasion to leave Aus to escape paying one's 'fair share'. Eventually governments will see that they must include all their citizens in the tax net so as to not be favouring those who pay nothing, but still return to Oz later in life with their 'booty'...
The other reason you are ignoring is in respect of percieved 'fairness'. If they raise taxes on Aus residents, they would need to show that Australians who have left are not exempt, otherwise it creates an implied persuasion to leave Aus to escape paying one's 'fair share'. Eventually governments will see that they must include all their citizens in the tax net so as to not be favouring those who pay nothing, but still return to Oz later in life with their 'booty'...
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We've only seen phase one of the world economic collapse. Wait until we reach phase three... Without hashing out the detail, when this debacle is over the Governments of the world will be buried with unsustainable debt. The only answer (well...to politicians that is) will be to institute a range of crippling tax increases. If you think Australia will somehow sit this out, I have some swamp land in Louisiana you may be interested in! Watch for phase two of the crisis to hit sometime between July and Sept. Enjoy. 
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Yes, like many of the new tax measures announced by the Labour party in the last budget there is still no detail on the rules and compliance issues in regard to this policy and many more new measures designed to tax hard working individuals to pay for mindless spending. With only two weeks prior to the implementation of these policies we can only hope that they get their s..t together ASAP.
The labour party love to spend money and they have turned a $26B surplus into a $40B deficit in record time, purely to be able to say they have narrowly avoided a "technical" recession. They now need to recoup the money they have spent, or at least pay the interest on their borrowings which must now be close to $5b/ year.
Those that say that it doesn't really matter which party is in power, wake up! The labour party will bank roll any minority group it can to get re-elected. Lets hope they haven't sunk the nation to unsalvageable lows prior to the wider community waking up to them.
So I guees now all we can do is wait, we can't tax plan because no details have been released. Its wonderful working with professionals isn't it!
The labour party love to spend money and they have turned a $26B surplus into a $40B deficit in record time, purely to be able to say they have narrowly avoided a "technical" recession. They now need to recoup the money they have spent, or at least pay the interest on their borrowings which must now be close to $5b/ year.
Those that say that it doesn't really matter which party is in power, wake up! The labour party will bank roll any minority group it can to get re-elected. Lets hope they haven't sunk the nation to unsalvageable lows prior to the wider community waking up to them.
So I guees now all we can do is wait, we can't tax plan because no details have been released. Its wonderful working with professionals isn't it!
I say again - these changes only affect those on short-term assignments overseas who remain residents of Australia for tax purposes. Some law firms and legal job agencies are jumping up and down because of the many lawyers who work overseas on lucrative, tax-free, short term assignments who will be impacted by these changes. I personally know several lawyers who from time-to-time love jetting off to places like the Cook Islands, Fiji, Vanuatu, Indonesia or Dubai for a stint of tax-free legal work (usually drafting local legislation or lecturing at a university). On the other hand, Aussies based overseas for extended or indefinite periods usually elect to become non-residents for tax purposes. In that situation they only have to pay tax (including non-resident withholding tax) on their Australian investment income.
