Other staffs' perception of Pilot Group
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The only realisation we all need to focus on is this: for some reason, 'wannabe' pilot/greasemonkeys seem to have a pathological need to comment on a pilot thread. This is easily put down to their obvious inferiority complex and inability to get to grips with the fact that we can wear pyjamas while we work, while they bruise their knuckles and get dirty fingernails while they work. Doesn't take too much genius to figure out which method of earning a living is preferrable. 
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ATY
Considering that anyone working in aviation is inferior to the dumb end user (who twiddles a few knobs, and letting the FMGEC/FMGC drive) , I'd sure as hell hate to be the one that spends his 'career' sitting at the pointy end of a fragile tube designed by the cheapest engineering labour, and made from several hundred thousand parts all made and them maintained by the lowest bidder.
Add to that, an aircraft is the sum total of all of the engineering balls-ups made since it entered service, so you gotta hope that we are not as dumb was you think we are.
And don't make the mistake of thinking that all engineers get grease under their nails... Even I tend to call them technicians, to differentiate the difference between those that design and those that fix.
At the end of my career I'll be able to reflect on the various aircraft types I've had a hand in designing (from aerobatic trainers through to the A380 - even worked on some Concorde mods).
You will be able to explain to your grandchildren that you sat in a pipe and operated the taps to burn a few million tonnes of jet fuel in the atmosphere. But then again they probably won't want to talk to you, because you're an obnoxious pilot.
Considering that anyone working in aviation is inferior to the dumb end user (who twiddles a few knobs, and letting the FMGEC/FMGC drive) , I'd sure as hell hate to be the one that spends his 'career' sitting at the pointy end of a fragile tube designed by the cheapest engineering labour, and made from several hundred thousand parts all made and them maintained by the lowest bidder.
Add to that, an aircraft is the sum total of all of the engineering balls-ups made since it entered service, so you gotta hope that we are not as dumb was you think we are.
And don't make the mistake of thinking that all engineers get grease under their nails... Even I tend to call them technicians, to differentiate the difference between those that design and those that fix.
At the end of my career I'll be able to reflect on the various aircraft types I've had a hand in designing (from aerobatic trainers through to the A380 - even worked on some Concorde mods).
You will be able to explain to your grandchildren that you sat in a pipe and operated the taps to burn a few million tonnes of jet fuel in the atmosphere. But then again they probably won't want to talk to you, because you're an obnoxious pilot.
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ATY, Dragon 60,
again it comes down to your superiority complex. Should your title be taken away from you, you would feel as if you have lost something.
As there is no system of rank in the engineering fraternity - we have nothing to lose.
As for the bruising and grazed knuckles - when something does go wrong with 'your' aeroplane and you are in your pyjamas - you can call an engineer who will come and fix it for you - and they won't complain as much as you.
But hang on a minute - you do believe it is your aeroplane don't you? Harping back to the sea captain tradition - that you are in 'command', so you believe when the engineer comes to service/repair the a/c he/she is doing it specifically to serve you.
Oh dear, you didn't realise that the engineer was doing it because he actually cares about the comfort and safety of the 17 cabin crew and the 350 pax that sit behind you in that metal tube......it's not the pilots that engineers have a problem with. It's arrogant people with superiority complexes that really get up their hooters.
I guess that any SLF or cabin crew that ever dare to stray into your pilots only club, will get a great idea of the sort of person behind the "Good Morning ladies and gentleman......" that they hear at the beginning of their flight.
Sadly you give your community a bad name. For me as self righteous as you like to call it, the safety and the pax come 1st.
Regards,
N1 Vibes
again it comes down to your superiority complex. Should your title be taken away from you, you would feel as if you have lost something.
As there is no system of rank in the engineering fraternity - we have nothing to lose.
As for the bruising and grazed knuckles - when something does go wrong with 'your' aeroplane and you are in your pyjamas - you can call an engineer who will come and fix it for you - and they won't complain as much as you.
But hang on a minute - you do believe it is your aeroplane don't you? Harping back to the sea captain tradition - that you are in 'command', so you believe when the engineer comes to service/repair the a/c he/she is doing it specifically to serve you.
Oh dear, you didn't realise that the engineer was doing it because he actually cares about the comfort and safety of the 17 cabin crew and the 350 pax that sit behind you in that metal tube......it's not the pilots that engineers have a problem with. It's arrogant people with superiority complexes that really get up their hooters.
I guess that any SLF or cabin crew that ever dare to stray into your pilots only club, will get a great idea of the sort of person behind the "Good Morning ladies and gentleman......" that they hear at the beginning of their flight.
Sadly you give your community a bad name. For me as self righteous as you like to call it, the safety and the pax come 1st.
Regards,
N1 Vibes
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N1, you seem to have a desperate need to explain yourself, and your perceived place in the world. Please just fix the airplanes so I can fly off to Rome for a couple of days of sightseeing...there's a good chap.
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ATY, AP,
I am only keen to display the concerns and attitude of an airline engineer. Yourselves seems only interested in - well - yourselves - oh and money/status/champagne/Rome - you show no concerns for others....
As I said the SLF and your colleagues in the rest of the company obviously think you are wonderful too.
Regards,
N1 Vibes
I am only keen to display the concerns and attitude of an airline engineer. Yourselves seems only interested in - well - yourselves - oh and money/status/champagne/Rome - you show no concerns for others....
As I said the SLF and your colleagues in the rest of the company obviously think you are wonderful too.
Regards,
N1 Vibes
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N1 & Busbert,
Been reading some of your comments, and was wondering if your views on us pilots is a comman theme amoung the engineers. If this is so we all have a serious problem of staff morale.
Being a lowly S/O i too have seen how some Captains and F/O believe they role the roost so to speak, but they are far and few between. Only problem is they ruin it for everyone. There is always one in the bunch.
I know that some F.A detest us because we get a housing allowance, but then again some FA think that CX trained me and don't realise that I have flown for 12 years in other airlines before coming here.
Senority is extremely important to the pilot body, and as you have seen it is something that we hold dear. I've worked for companies that don't use a senority base system, and its really ugly. All the brown nosing, and ass kissing looking for a promotion.
Even FA work in a senority system, ask some of the senor gals about the fast track male f.a to ISM postions, or any of the junior based girls in senior postions, they all have something to say about that too.
But thats drifting from the topic.
I do believe as a pilot group, but also as CX staff we need better relations with one another. From TT down to me.
Been reading some of your comments, and was wondering if your views on us pilots is a comman theme amoung the engineers. If this is so we all have a serious problem of staff morale.
Being a lowly S/O i too have seen how some Captains and F/O believe they role the roost so to speak, but they are far and few between. Only problem is they ruin it for everyone. There is always one in the bunch.
I know that some F.A detest us because we get a housing allowance, but then again some FA think that CX trained me and don't realise that I have flown for 12 years in other airlines before coming here.
Senority is extremely important to the pilot body, and as you have seen it is something that we hold dear. I've worked for companies that don't use a senority base system, and its really ugly. All the brown nosing, and ass kissing looking for a promotion.
Even FA work in a senority system, ask some of the senor gals about the fast track male f.a to ISM postions, or any of the junior based girls in senior postions, they all have something to say about that too.
But thats drifting from the topic.
I do believe as a pilot group, but also as CX staff we need better relations with one another. From TT down to me.
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Hey Assbert,
You couldn't design a door handle let alone anything else, don't fool yourself or anyone else on this forum. Without a manual that told you exactly how to loosen a screw you would be a lost soul.
The majority of pilots have engineering degrees, or various degrees, several even have aeronautical degrees. If you want to make a generalized comment about us "dumb end user" and compare intelligence level between grease monkeys and pilots, I am afraid the grease monkey would lose out.
But that's just it isn't? Your posts wreak of envy and jealousy. I mean why else would you come on this forum and start taking pot shots.
Yeah another intelligent comment 
. Same can be said about the car you drive, the lift you take at ****ty City, the bus you catch...and so on! But you still, drive your car, run for that lift, catch that bus.......So what was your point again???
At the end of my career I'll be able to reflect on the various aircraft types I've had a hand in designing
The majority of pilots have engineering degrees, or various degrees, several even have aeronautical degrees. If you want to make a generalized comment about us "dumb end user" and compare intelligence level between grease monkeys and pilots, I am afraid the grease monkey would lose out.
But that's just it isn't? Your posts wreak of envy and jealousy. I mean why else would you come on this forum and start taking pot shots.
I'd sure as hell hate to be the one that spends his 'career' sitting at the pointy end of a fragile tube designed by the cheapest engineering labour, and made from several hundred thousand parts all made and them maintained by the lowest bidder.
. Same can be said about the car you drive, the lift you take at ****ty City, the bus you catch...and so on! But you still, drive your car, run for that lift, catch that bus.......So what was your point again???
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Busbert, let's see....'sitting at the pointy end'..hmm? Well, let's mention a few of the 'pointy ends' that i've sat at the front of shall we?
1) F104 Starfighter....hurtling through the desert near Las Vegas at 1000kts.
2) F4 Phantom....in and out of the welsh valleys at 250'.
3) F18...off the deck of a US aircraft carrier
4) B727...into Berlin....to meet my date at a local bar!
5) DC10...into Honolulu for a bit of R&R
6) B744...into Paris for a bit of shopping
...many, many different experiences...to many different and exotic places. But you're right...i'd MUCH rather be clambered up inside a wheel well changing a hydraulic pump. Yes....I get the 'point'.
1) F104 Starfighter....hurtling through the desert near Las Vegas at 1000kts.
2) F4 Phantom....in and out of the welsh valleys at 250'.
3) F18...off the deck of a US aircraft carrier
4) B727...into Berlin....to meet my date at a local bar!
5) DC10...into Honolulu for a bit of R&R
6) B744...into Paris for a bit of shopping
...many, many different experiences...to many different and exotic places. But you're right...i'd MUCH rather be clambered up inside a wheel well changing a hydraulic pump. Yes....I get the 'point'.
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You will be able to explain to your grandchildren that you sat in a pipe and operated the taps to burn a few million tonnes of jet fuel in the atmosphere. But then again they probably won't want to talk to you, because you're an obnoxious pilot
The Reverend
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I think it's high time to stop feeding the monkeys
Moderator, please put a lock on this inane dialogue!
Moderator, please put a lock on this inane dialogue!
Last edited by HotDog; 29th Apr 2009 at 05:33.
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HotDog...coming from NSW Aus means you would know about inane dialogue! The wonderful thing about the internet is.....if you don't like it, click to a different page. I always admire someone who determines that no further discussion can take place because THEY don't want it. B**ger off
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Gravox,
you have nothing to fear about the relationship between this engineer and the wider pilot community. Just the few examples of pilots with whom we are playing forum ping-pong, these are the ones to watch.
If you took away their seniority/housing, they would feel it as a crushing blow to their 'lifestyle'. And would spend every minute, of every day, from now until the grim reaper put's them out of their misery, whinging about 'the good times'.
Other realists in CX and around the world I suspect are very, very, appreciative of the privileged situation they are in. If CX took away everybody's housing tomorrow for example - then I would be at the same level as the guy sitting next to me - seems fair - I would cut my cloth to suit.
Dragon 59,
if only it was as easy as reading the 'manual'. I somehow don't think you know, and I'm sure you're about to tell me you don't care.
As far as whether Busbert has ever designed something on your a/c, actually it is extremely likely that he has. And I think you will find that is was much more safety critical than a door handle.
1st rule of debating - know your audience.
Air Profit,
fascinating list - but remember the fact that you got into the air at all was because somebody had previously been in that wheel-well.
(PS I think I hear the strains of Top Gun in the background - no hang on, that's Busbert straining to heave up his lunch after reading your 'Glory Moments')
We all have lists of achievements. Only those who feel inferior/threatened or need to impress, feel the need to wave them about.
Regards,
N1 Vibes
you have nothing to fear about the relationship between this engineer and the wider pilot community. Just the few examples of pilots with whom we are playing forum ping-pong, these are the ones to watch.
If you took away their seniority/housing, they would feel it as a crushing blow to their 'lifestyle'. And would spend every minute, of every day, from now until the grim reaper put's them out of their misery, whinging about 'the good times'.
Other realists in CX and around the world I suspect are very, very, appreciative of the privileged situation they are in. If CX took away everybody's housing tomorrow for example - then I would be at the same level as the guy sitting next to me - seems fair - I would cut my cloth to suit.
Dragon 59,
if only it was as easy as reading the 'manual'. I somehow don't think you know, and I'm sure you're about to tell me you don't care.
As far as whether Busbert has ever designed something on your a/c, actually it is extremely likely that he has. And I think you will find that is was much more safety critical than a door handle.
1st rule of debating - know your audience.
Air Profit,
fascinating list - but remember the fact that you got into the air at all was because somebody had previously been in that wheel-well.
(PS I think I hear the strains of Top Gun in the background - no hang on, that's Busbert straining to heave up his lunch after reading your 'Glory Moments')
We all have lists of achievements. Only those who feel inferior/threatened or need to impress, feel the need to wave them about.
Regards,
N1 Vibes
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AP,
sorry old chap - this is a debate about how people view the actions of the Pilot Community with regards to SLS, and has now expanded into your view of those who are not members of the Pilot Community, which I as a non-pilot have joined in.
Why don't you trot out your "LESS IMPORTANT" statement about non-pilots again?
I have to say, based on the support you are receiving, that so far you're doing quite well....please continue.
Regards,
N1 Vibes
sorry old chap - this is a debate about how people view the actions of the Pilot Community with regards to SLS, and has now expanded into your view of those who are not members of the Pilot Community, which I as a non-pilot have joined in.
Why don't you trot out your "LESS IMPORTANT" statement about non-pilots again?
I have to say, based on the support you are receiving, that so far you're doing quite well....please continue.
Regards,
N1 Vibes