DFO's Letter to Crew
Join Date: Oct 2006
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rhoshamboe
No not correct. BPP is paid in accordance with YOUR CoS, not the extendee. If you stay on CoS99 you will be eligible for BPP which will be triggered by all CNs over 55(subject to legal outcome over Frtr CN triggering BPP)
clear as mud?
clear as mud?
Join Date: Aug 2007
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COS
Cathay can and will change your conditions at will.
Who really thinks if you lock into 55 now, that you won't be able to change that down the track given any upturn will obviously see an unprecedented demand for our services!
It sounds pretty easy to me: Age 55
Tony and friends have been stationed at the top and under their watch have enjoyed seeing their freight cartel attract attention of the US... and now AUS, NZ and the EU.
They have also seen their punt on fuel in the Macao casino fail. They would like all in the company to share the pain.
Now...if I, god forbid, prang a jet, will I get to keep my job and ask all in the company to share the pain by taking SLS to pay for the repair? Hmm!
It sounds pretty easy to me: No SLS
Fact:
- This company won't fall over tomorrow.
- Tony's noble idea of more unpaid leave than most, WILL be paid back in spades by his own bonuses down the track. More money, less work! (I just wish we could work out how to do the same! It's a shame most ground staff are blinded by big business ideology)
Join Date: Feb 2009
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The big bad wolf has been dropped in the sheep's pen. They're trying to scare everybody onto COS08.
The thing is, I thought the company was 'desperately' trying to save cash now, but moving everybody over to COS08 will not save them as much $$ as SLS, so if it's one or the other, then they don't really need that cash, do they?
And how fair is it exactly to take a paycut for the rest of my life to help the company through a crisis that will only last a few years?
The thing is, I thought the company was 'desperately' trying to save cash now, but moving everybody over to COS08 will not save them as much $$ as SLS, so if it's one or the other, then they don't really need that cash, do they?
And how fair is it exactly to take a paycut for the rest of my life to help the company through a crisis that will only last a few years?
Join Date: Jul 2006
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Somebody please explain to me why I should agree to a paycut and slower career progression just so I can work longer to try and recoup it all???
What kind of retarded choice is that?
What kind of retarded choice is that?
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Really boys, we need to separate the SLS from the new contract situation. SLS is peanuts compared with what will happen with RA65, CoS08, junior freighter Captains on a base getting the same pay as a passenger Captain on a base, etc.
Never sign a new contract. Despite shiny and tasty frosting, the cake beneath will be rotten. You just won't discover it until you get to the middle...
If you value your longevity at CX, take SLS. If you don't, they will remember your "lack of support" at the most inopportune time for you.
Never sign a new contract. Despite shiny and tasty frosting, the cake beneath will be rotten. You just won't discover it until you get to the middle...
If you value your longevity at CX, take SLS. If you don't, they will remember your "lack of support" at the most inopportune time for you.
Join Date: Apr 2008
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AOA Vote???
There will not be an AOA vote on RA65 etc. The AOA only represents about 55% of CX pilots therefore they do not have the moral authority or industrial might to decide on contracts. The company has made the 'offer'. It is now up to each pilot to evaluate the pros and cons. Either way it is time to grab the KY and take it like a man. CX pilots will NEVER unite enough to stop the shafting.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Gents,
I think the FTR PAX pay is being taken out of context ... I hope
The way I see it the union has an agreement where ALL future commands will be filled in Seniority , no more cheap FTR early commands??
I would imagine then any Captain that is currently on the FTR will be ring fenced until such time as they hold the seniority to hold a Command on the now one line list?
If this is not the case then it is basically a case of DIRECT entry commands on the Passenger fleet which is against your COS?? I have not read in Mr Rhodes update that is the case?
Finally in regards to the Age 65 quite simple if your young enough play the game say yes please love to Help out on the SLS but I only want to work until 55. Wait for a base go get it as an f/o then let the legal system of that country work out the age discrimination issue, meanwhile your getting bypass pay?
I look forward to
the HKAOA's update
I think the FTR PAX pay is being taken out of context ... I hope
The way I see it the union has an agreement where ALL future commands will be filled in Seniority , no more cheap FTR early commands??
I would imagine then any Captain that is currently on the FTR will be ring fenced until such time as they hold the seniority to hold a Command on the now one line list?
If this is not the case then it is basically a case of DIRECT entry commands on the Passenger fleet which is against your COS?? I have not read in Mr Rhodes update that is the case?
Finally in regards to the Age 65 quite simple if your young enough play the game say yes please love to Help out on the SLS but I only want to work until 55. Wait for a base go get it as an f/o then let the legal system of that country work out the age discrimination issue, meanwhile your getting bypass pay?
I look forward to
the HKAOA's update
Join Date: Oct 2006
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hkgdriver, you pretty much have nailed it.
About the current offering - what's that saying - if a man comes at you brandishing a knife, whilst watching the knife hand, beware his other hand delving into your pocket for you wallet. (for the metaphorically challenged knife = redundancy, stealing wallet=CoS08)
About the current offering - what's that saying - if a man comes at you brandishing a knife, whilst watching the knife hand, beware his other hand delving into your pocket for you wallet. (for the metaphorically challenged knife = redundancy, stealing wallet=CoS08)
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Guys Guys Guys
Relax...You are making all sorts of wild theories and you will die of a heart attack. Wait to read the contract. Apparently the AOA has managed to get some good concessions i.e. If command extends to say 15yrs then when you get a command it will be at level 3 Captain seniorority. There are other stoppers in there to prevent freighter captains going onto passenger B scale until their seniorority is high enough to take a pax command.
Relax until you read the whole thing and stop spreading b..llsh..t
Relax until you read the whole thing and stop spreading b..llsh..t
Join Date: Jan 2001
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Gent's I would be very careful assuming that you will get and BBP.
Our contract states
BYPASS PAY
10.1. In any case of retention of Captains beyond the Retirement Age, subject to 10.3 & 10.4,
the next most senior First Officer on the Aircrew Seniority List will receive Command
Bypass Pay in the form of Captain’s Salary, allowances and benefits on a one for one
basis commencing upon the date that the retained Captain reaches the Retirement Age.
The payment of Command Bypass Pay will cease when the retained Captain retires.
So when the extended Captains that are triggering BBP sign COS08 they will effectively raise their retirement age and no longer be on extension. This will not trigger BBP.
Junior officers stand by for the pineapple.
Our contract states
BYPASS PAY
10.1. In any case of retention of Captains beyond the Retirement Age, subject to 10.3 & 10.4,
the next most senior First Officer on the Aircrew Seniority List will receive Command
Bypass Pay in the form of Captain’s Salary, allowances and benefits on a one for one
basis commencing upon the date that the retained Captain reaches the Retirement Age.
The payment of Command Bypass Pay will cease when the retained Captain retires.
So when the extended Captains that are triggering BBP sign COS08 they will effectively raise their retirement age and no longer be on extension. This will not trigger BBP.
Junior officers stand by for the pineapple.
Join Date: Apr 2009
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This is the way I see it. The company tried to get everyone on COS08 and it didn't work so now this is another scheme for them to F^^^K us again. I can't believe the AOA actually sign off of this chit. COS09 Freighter FO get F$$%%ked everytime. I for one I'm not going to sign chit that will make me loose a dime even if it means retiring at 55. Go and shove it......
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Don't worry about it: those sort of semantics won't stand up in any court in the world. (Except for North Korea. Or Iran. Perhaps Syria. And definitely Zimbabwe!)
The establishment of a new COS does not invalidate a previous contract, that is, COS 99 specifically states the RA as 55.
For what you say to occur, it would effectively mean that every labour contract ever written has an implied clause of "subsequent contracts (unsigned by you) will supersede and directly alter your employment terms!".
For example: why didn't COS 99 people start being paid UFO salaries when they were introduced on COS08 employees. I mean, the COS 08 salary scales stated "WEF 01 Jan 2008"?
Even the HK Labour Tribunal agrees on this.
The establishment of a new COS does not invalidate a previous contract, that is, COS 99 specifically states the RA as 55.
For what you say to occur, it would effectively mean that every labour contract ever written has an implied clause of "subsequent contracts (unsigned by you) will supersede and directly alter your employment terms!".
For example: why didn't COS 99 people start being paid UFO salaries when they were introduced on COS08 employees. I mean, the COS 08 salary scales stated "WEF 01 Jan 2008"?
Even the HK Labour Tribunal agrees on this.
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superfrozo I hear what you are saying but if the company is offering RA65 for COS08 that effectively means my original COS99 no longer applies. All I know is the Base freighter guys get F%&^K every time. I'm going to restrain myself till Monday to see the full GMA package. I still don't understand why they are going to give us only 10 days to make this important decision. It's a lot to think about......Giving away command, pay, and whatever else.
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AvGuard,
not ever been "freightside" myself so I'm not up to speed on the contractual changeover to COS 08 for you guys. But...
If you're on COS 99 and there is no requirement for you to sign COS 08, simply stay on COS 99. Irrespective of the wording in Para 10 on COS 99, when Captains on the seniority list (any COS - who's to say CX won't extend COS 99ers if req'd at a later date anyway!!) are older than 55, they should trigger BPP for the COS 99 SFOs.
My use of the term should is not meant to imply it could be legally optional. It certainly wouldn't be, but of course, this is the same "Year Zero" company that begrudges SOs their legally entitled BPP as a result of DEFOs.
However, standby for this little gem to be redressed. At great cost to the airline.
When are these plonkers gonna learn the meaning of the adage "penny wise pound foolish"??
not ever been "freightside" myself so I'm not up to speed on the contractual changeover to COS 08 for you guys. But...
If you're on COS 99 and there is no requirement for you to sign COS 08, simply stay on COS 99. Irrespective of the wording in Para 10 on COS 99, when Captains on the seniority list (any COS - who's to say CX won't extend COS 99ers if req'd at a later date anyway!!) are older than 55, they should trigger BPP for the COS 99 SFOs.
My use of the term should is not meant to imply it could be legally optional. It certainly wouldn't be, but of course, this is the same "Year Zero" company that begrudges SOs their legally entitled BPP as a result of DEFOs.
However, standby for this little gem to be redressed. At great cost to the airline.
When are these plonkers gonna learn the meaning of the adage "penny wise pound foolish"??