Rumour - Unpaid Leave for CX Groundstaff

[trevfly]

I think some of the KA DECs are sweating, esp those who are still stuck flying in KA. Seems though that their magnanimous nature has not yet extended to taking any unpaid leave. They will no doubt leave that to their more senior CX buddies. The guys who got to the RHS on merit, not through the back door.

And lets not hear all that twollop about time in the group. By resigning from KA and grabbin all they could at Cx, they accepted a common joining date at the BOTTOM of the CX list at the time.Fair do's.

Whats the point of a redundancy list if no one is prepared to apply it?
Dont take unpaid leave, fight it, and what will be will be.

You may wake up and find the DEC problem has been resolved

[trevfly]

Maybe there's no redundancy list @ CX as such , just DOJ?

[WeakForce]

How many days of unpaid leave will the DFO of Cathay Pacific Airways be taking? Let me guess - not too many - his bonus is predicated on convincing suckers to take lots.

[raven11]

Kitsune...What???

I didn't say anything regarding seniority! LOL all you want.

What I was attempting to say was that if people like you and ACMS think you are going to escape this unscathed you're dreaming! If people think that they are safe because they "need to sign any changes to change to their conditions", then their dreaming too.

Just ask those who've been through this before. It will be a "sign this" or you will never get a base, sign this or you will never be promoted, sign this or you will be transferred back to HKG......neither of these three items are guarateed in your "contract".

The Company feels it is in survival mode. You may disagree, but that is their perception. They will then act accordingly.

My whole point was that people should be careful wishing ill on others....

[ACMS]

Survival mode!!!
let me see.......capacity up by 13% on last year, load factors still up around 80% ( even after cancelling 80 flts last week ), pax numbers around 50,000 per day, fuel price low meaning SAVING around 15 to 20 BILLION over the year ( more than wiping out the hedging losses ) and you think we are in Survival mode!!!

More like "lets get the staff terrified, and at the same time make them take a big pay cut" mode

Get a grip and don't believe all they spin.

I've been here 16 years and this is not the first downturn I've seen.

Remember KB after the post SARS 5.5 Billion HKD profit "we weren't expeting such pent up demand for travel"

If I had a dollar for each time CX complained about forward bookings I'd be a rich B scaler!!

chill fellas and sit on ya hands.

I'm not saying ( and never have ) we wont escape this unscathed, all I'm trying to say is don't believe all you read from CX ( Swire ) They love to take advantage of situations like this to change their staff's COS packages.

Maybe they will "force" unpaid leave down our throats with threats, possibly as they've done that before.

If things are really that bad then anyone "not on our seniority list" should go first. ( ie the extendee, part time, temporary Captains call them what you will )

Until I see CX giving them a DCM I wont believe we are doomed.

[FlexibleResponse]

I'm no expert on running an airline, but would they really want to deliberately scare the s*#% out of their investors by continually making statements about our financial situation if it wasn't really bad? Would they do that just to try to cut our T&C

Oh yes...it has been done before. Some silly Director tried that once before on the staff, but his scare tactics reached the media and shareholders. Said Director was then forced to make a retraction and explain that the memo was meant only for staff consumption and had no basis in fact.

Deadly virus may force Cathay to ground entire fleet - Business Analysis & Features, Business - The Independent

CNN.com - Cathay: No plans to ground fleet - Apr. 15, 2003

[Svengali]

ACMS & FlexibleResponse

Good job, for reminding the boys of the spin that comes from T.T. and N.R., The new guys have not been through all the history that we have.

[ACMS]

No, I don't believe the company is "raking it in" either.

I believe we are in a pretty bad economic environment, no doubt about that. My arguement is that the company are "making hay while the sun shines"
( although they would say the sun is not shining, it's just a bright moon )
Taking a golden opportunity to screw down the COS of their staff for the future and making us ALL take an unnecessary 8.3333% pay cut now.

[ACMS]

Cathay keep mentioning the drop in First and Business class and they are probably correct. We are,they say,relying on Economy pax to keep us running through this "difficult" time. So, why don't we expand our Economy network a bit? go out and flight for the tourist seats and operate to Honolulu, Guam, Maldives and Mauritius. In the past they said they didn't go there because "there is no business market, no big profit margin".........Well? now the games changed around we should be out there grabbing every opportunity. Economy it seems is better than nothing.

Just a thought....

[fly123456]

We should all take unpaid leave! On the same day. No, no, don't get confused, it's not a strike, it's just to help the company out.

Then we'll see if they still find it a good idea to force people taking unpaid leave

[raven11]

ACMS

I don't know why, but you seem to have a hard time reading my posts. For goodness sake man, I feel as if I'm arguing with my wife.

I didn't say "I" thought the Company was in survival mode! I said:

"The Company feels it is in survival mode. You may disagree, but that is their perception. They will then act accordingly."

It doesn’t matter what you and I think, only what they think.

You've been here 16 years, and I've been here 18, so we've both been down this road a few times already. I've been at the receiving end of several past downturns, as have you. I guess that's why I agree with just about everything you said in your last few posts (except your misquoting me).

What gets up my nose is the perception that some of us are gleefully anticipating that some among our ranks will lose their jobs, while they on the other hand will sail happily along. There's just something creepy and dishonorable about the tone of some of the posts I've been reading. However you candy-coat it, whether it's from the bottom of the seniority list, extendees, whatever....something about the tone of some posters gets my back up.

I believe the AOA is in a no-win situation here. It can please the junior pilots, or it can please the senior pilots, but it can't please both. Who do you think wins in this environment? Unless we pull together...it won't be any of us.

Do I have the answer to this dilemma? No. But for the time being, my personal strategy is to support the AOA, as I always have, and hope they can find a solution.

Oh, damn...I think I can hear my wife calling me..."OK honey, I'm almost done. I'll be right there..."

[GlueBall]

......."capacity up by 13% on last year, load factors still up around 80%..."

That's hardly a relevant measure of the company's financial health, better known as: "Operating profit!"

Grossly discounted air fares can easily generate 80+ per cent load factors, and yet the company isn't making a dollar. Besides that, the fuel hedging snafu will eat $1billion of the company's revenue over the next 18 months, . . . unless the price of oil were to magically rocket above $139/bbl.

[N1 Vibes]

Gentlemen/ladies,

referring back to the original title of the thread and in response to a certain amount of optimism here amongst some of the front-end CEO's and CFO's:

- 2009 - Global Economic Downturn

- All Groundstaff - unpaid leave - 6 weeks - RUMOUR

- 1998 - Asia Crisis

- 800 Groundstaff made redundant - FACT

I too have been here a number of years and seen the things that went on during post-911 and SARS. Some of you may have been (at the front end) here for 16/18 years unscathed (relatively), but spin or no spin, if the man at the top wants to trim his bottom line by having some unpaid leave or rolling some heads among the GROUNDSTAFF - then that's just what he will do.

Equally if he determines that he wants to trim his bottom line by losing a few front-end wallahs via redundancy - then I guess he get's his wish doesn't he?

Oh, and forgive my ignorance (and my very sincere apologies to those affected) aren't some front end people going to be leaving the company as a result of the Classic retirements? What would you call this - a holiday.....

Regards,

N1 Vibes

[ACMS]

N1 Vibes...........sorry I wasn't meaning to take your comment out of context.
I kind of meant my reply as if CX had said they were in survival mode, which is kind of what they are alluding to.

The Classic Captains I speak to have been given course dates for conversion to the 400.

Glueball.........CX is flying 50,000 pax per day at around 80% with the fuel prices down as they are then surely we must be making an operating profit. If not then the "inmates are running the prison".

[N1 Vibes]

ACMS,

I didn't mean the captains - the classic has 3 seats up front...I hear today that these positions and people are lost forever.

Regards,

N1 Vibes

[Kitsune]

The cost of fuel could be zero per gallon, if you have hedged to pay 50 bucks for that gallon, it costs you 50 bucks.........

[ACMS]

yeah, so?

CX is paying current market rates ( about $50 barrel ) for 50% of the Jet Fuel and $70 barrel for the other 50%.

There IS a combined saving of about 15 to 20 BILLION on LAST years fuel bill if the price says about the same. ( no reason to think it will go up much any time soon )

The first five or six months of calander 2009 MORE than offset the WHOLE hedging screw up, the rest of the year is bonus, thus helping offset the lower revenue stream for the year and producing a fair result overall.

So it all comes down to how cheaply we are selling the seats, does the significant oil price drop match or exceed the price we drop the seats?

N1 Vibes........not much we can do for our Flt Eng I'm affraid. The F/O's on the seiority list below the age of 55 should be ok. The Captains over 55 on extension on the other hand should get on their knees and kiss NR's bum.

[Kitsune]

Smell the coffee

Qantas set to axe more jobs

By Peter Smith in Sydney
Published: March 22 2009 22:11 | Last updated: March 22 2009 22:11

Qantas, the Australian flag carrier, will this week make public a restructuring plan that includes a second wave of redundancies after an examination of the airline’s business under Alan Joyce, its new chief executive.

Staff and unions will be told the job losses are needed to match reduced capacity requirements as passenger revenues have deteriorated.

Qantas will also announce the restructuring to the Australian Securities Exchange in the coming days, two people with knowledge of the situation said. Qantas declined to comment.

Airlines worldwide are being hit by the mounting crisis in aviation. Air France-KLM and Lufthansa, the two leading European carriers, recently announced more capacity reductions. A rising number of carriers is also seeking to defer delivery of new aircraft, undermining the outlook for jetmakers Airbus and Boeing.

The Centre for Asia Pacific Aviation, an industry consultancy, last week warned that airlines in Asia could only be weeks away from grounding up to 10 per cent of their fleets as they contend with weak revenues, falling passenger loads and excess capacity.

Singapore Airlines last week reported a more than 20 per cent drop in passenger loads in February, one of the airline’s biggest monthly drops on record, while Hong Kong-based Cathay Pacific this month reported the biggest annual loss in its 63-year history.

Qantas axed 1,500 jobs in July 2008 and has since introduced an “accelerated leave” programme to cut staff numbers. Many of this week’s cuts are likely to be made in senior and middle management. The fresh job losses continue Qantas’s strategy of reducing its workforce.

The airline announced the departure of David Cox, the executive in charge of engineering, on March 19. Qantas employs 37,000 people according to its latest annual report.

It reported last month a 68 per cent drop in first-half profits and reaffirmed guidance that full-year profits to June 30 would reach A$500m ($344m), down from 2007-08’s A$1.4bn.

The A$500m figure is vulnerable to a downgrade, however, possibly lthis week, as Qantas grapples with depressed demandl.

Mr Joyce, the former head of Qantas’s budget carrier Jetstar, lhas made it clear lhe wants the group to avoid la loss during his first yearl.

However, Mr Joyce has also signalled he wants to take a more conciliatory approach to negotiations with Qantas’s 16 unions than Mr Dixonl.

A lengthy and bitter dispute with the Australian Licensed Engineers Association last year cost Qantas A$150m. However, the dispute which resulted in flights being cancelled for often small technical problems also damaged Qantas’s brand image and its reliability record.

Qantas is one of the ore profitable airlines and, though it was recently downgraded by Moody’s, is one of the few to retain an investment grade credit rating.

In February, Qantas said its A$500m full-year profit guidance was “subject to no further significant change in market conditions and fuel prices”.

[ACMS]

Yeah Kitsune?

Now read this thread too.

http://www.pprune.org/d-g-reporting-...ior-execs.html


I'm sure CX would have no trouble finding 100+ deadwood managers at Hello kitty city.

If life's so bad here then it would be a good start.

[Kitsune]

Are there any JSS extendees..........