AOA funding of UK retirement age appeal
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thanks mephisto for sharing.
my initial thought would be : are you aware that the 140k will be reduced by inflation ? In 30 years from now ( don't know your age ) this will be only 30-35(!)K in real terms ( 2.5% annual inflation rate). Plus your 6% might be possible, but if you look at the average return of stocks of the last 10 years( 2008-1998) you probably would be below that value. What if your house needs a new roof in 25 years from now ? Or you might have to pay college fees in 20 years from now, while you might be struggling with paying for your divorce at the same time ( not that I wish you that of course). What if inflation goes up to near double digits, not unknown of in the past ? Also you said you expect your money demand to decrease with age, well 55 is not that old plus you have nothing to do anymore. Don't know 'bout you, but I spend the most when I am off work or on leave..
rgds
my initial thought would be : are you aware that the 140k will be reduced by inflation ? In 30 years from now ( don't know your age ) this will be only 30-35(!)K in real terms ( 2.5% annual inflation rate). Plus your 6% might be possible, but if you look at the average return of stocks of the last 10 years( 2008-1998) you probably would be below that value. What if your house needs a new roof in 25 years from now ? Or you might have to pay college fees in 20 years from now, while you might be struggling with paying for your divorce at the same time ( not that I wish you that of course). What if inflation goes up to near double digits, not unknown of in the past ? Also you said you expect your money demand to decrease with age, well 55 is not that old plus you have nothing to do anymore. Don't know 'bout you, but I spend the most when I am off work or on leave..
rgds
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If you work the whole thing out on 2% real return it's a lot easier.... We all assume that our outgoings need to stay level until we cark it, but that's just not the case. If you think you need 14G Oz to live yearly until 70, (if you work until 65 in aviation, check out how many years you will have left after you retire with an actuary, it's truly frightening), you are in the wrong job!
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Some very fine posts gentlemen. Nice to wake up to. Well done!
Personally, I would love to have the $3.5 oz asset base by age 60, from which I feel most families could live quite comfortably.
Sadly few of us will achieve that given the current financial climate. Asset portfolios and real estate investments are generally well down, and very uncertain these days. Time will tell.
For younger pilots, the above figure should be your goal, as time is on your side.
Once achieved, retirement becomes entirely feasible!
As we all know most pilots are terrible investors. However, we do have some very successful and savy investors in our group. Maybe the AOA could host reqular seminars to offer objective advise and broader insight. Pilots could share knowlege and compare what's out there. We could gain the kind of insight you wont find on your own, for fear of committing to an investment product you know little about.
Ring, Ring....Number Cruncher...
Personally, I would love to have the $3.5 oz asset base by age 60, from which I feel most families could live quite comfortably.
Sadly few of us will achieve that given the current financial climate. Asset portfolios and real estate investments are generally well down, and very uncertain these days. Time will tell.
For younger pilots, the above figure should be your goal, as time is on your side.
Once achieved, retirement becomes entirely feasible!
As we all know most pilots are terrible investors. However, we do have some very successful and savy investors in our group. Maybe the AOA could host reqular seminars to offer objective advise and broader insight. Pilots could share knowlege and compare what's out there. We could gain the kind of insight you wont find on your own, for fear of committing to an investment product you know little about.
Ring, Ring....Number Cruncher...
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Long ago, and far away, even before Raven joined, in an airline based in Hong Kong, several airline pilots and flight engineers were discussing investments. One of them had noticed a poster on the crew room board proclaiming astounding returns for quite a large investment. As they all knew lots about flying they also must know lots about investment, so they contacted the firm on the poster, and ended up being proud owners of a glittering brand new apartment block in the leafy suburb of Queens in New York city. The payment cheques rolled in for 4 or 5 months to much chortling and boasting in the crew room about their investment...... until the cheques stopped that is. The most senior F/E was hastily authorised to use syndicate funds to visit said garden suburb, and on a dark and stormy night (?) found the derelict vacant lot with its itinerant junkies and pikeys festering in the gloom. Assuming he must have the address wrong, he trudged to the nearest police station, and explained his predicament to a large Irish sergeant behind the desk who replied the immortal words: "You're about the 5th guy to turn up here about that vacant lot, YOU MUST BE AIRCREW TOO!). To add insult to injury one of said itinerant junkies had snuck away with his briefcase during this exchange, leaving him with no passport/ticket etc........... The only personnel worse than airline crew at investment are dentists for some reason. Avoid all syndicates populated by fellow crew members like the plague, any investment advisor that has an office in Hong Kong, and anyone associated with CX. Then you may have achance of retiring (at 65) with your pot of brass......
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$3.5 OZ
err... how hard can it be...
Buy a modest flat in HK. Live in it and use the housing allowance to pay it down about half, say 3 years. Buy another slightly less modest flat, live in flat, rent out the first one so the rent covers the mortgage interest at least... Repeat process as many times as you can in 15 years. Then rent yourself the biggest badas flat you can and enjoy your last 5 years in HK and stash the rents from your properties.
Save 10% of your salary each year with the aim of buying a good renter in OZ. What's a good renter?; spend a day with a Estate Agent (preferably a pretty one) pretending to a tenant... you'll quickly figure it out... Buy as many as you can in 20 years...
Put your Prov fund into OZ/Euro/Emerging shares (stay away from US/China as your job exposes you to enough risk in that). After say 10 years, start converting your Prov into OZ shares and dollars so after 20 years you are in $OZ only.
I reckon after 20 years you should have $3.5mOZ.
PS. A few assumptions;
1. You don't marry your housemaid.
2. If it flys or floats or .... you lease it..
3. Anyone comes at you with a deal that is too good to be true.. guess what?
4. Apart from your Prov Fund.. which has Tax advantages... you never invest in a Fund.... Funds make money for Fund managers!
5. If you need to buy something that requires you to pay interest on a Credit card.. you don't need the item...
6. Grow a pair and take responsibility for your own investment decisions.
7. Never take advice from anonymous people on the t'nernet
Buy a modest flat in HK. Live in it and use the housing allowance to pay it down about half, say 3 years. Buy another slightly less modest flat, live in flat, rent out the first one so the rent covers the mortgage interest at least... Repeat process as many times as you can in 15 years. Then rent yourself the biggest badas flat you can and enjoy your last 5 years in HK and stash the rents from your properties.
Save 10% of your salary each year with the aim of buying a good renter in OZ. What's a good renter?; spend a day with a Estate Agent (preferably a pretty one) pretending to a tenant... you'll quickly figure it out... Buy as many as you can in 20 years...
Put your Prov fund into OZ/Euro/Emerging shares (stay away from US/China as your job exposes you to enough risk in that). After say 10 years, start converting your Prov into OZ shares and dollars so after 20 years you are in $OZ only.
I reckon after 20 years you should have $3.5mOZ.
PS. A few assumptions;
1. You don't marry your housemaid.
2. If it flys or floats or .... you lease it..
3. Anyone comes at you with a deal that is too good to be true.. guess what?
4. Apart from your Prov Fund.. which has Tax advantages... you never invest in a Fund.... Funds make money for Fund managers!
5. If you need to buy something that requires you to pay interest on a Credit card.. you don't need the item...
6. Grow a pair and take responsibility for your own investment decisions.
7. Never take advice from anonymous people on the t'nernet
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Very good point stillalbatross!
Cyriljgroove you started another thread to have a meaningful debate as to why you should carry on past 55, but you're more than happy to return here and belittle someone that doesn't agree with you. If stillalbatross is the village idiot you're then the village retard. hopefully I'll see you flipping burgers at burger king in a few years when you're 56!
Cyriljgroove you started another thread to have a meaningful debate as to why you should carry on past 55, but you're more than happy to return here and belittle someone that doesn't agree with you. If stillalbatross is the village idiot you're then the village retard. hopefully I'll see you flipping burgers at burger king in a few years when you're 56!
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You've obviously made a decision not to have children since putting two kids and a wife in 800sq/ft won't be fun.
There is already enough of a financial struggle in HK if you are junior crew & raising a young family. An 800sq/ft flat with 2 adults & 2 children / teenagers would start leading in the direction of divorce.
And the village idiot returns to post dribble
If you were truly honest here you would admit that all your interested in is securing your own pot of gold.
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Sorry Dragon 69
Sorry if I stepped in on your territory of slagging off at folks, It seems you are the only one with that holy right. A small collection of your snipes
you seem a bit of a sad angry case, A sniper who contributes nothing of any value whatsoever....nothing not one bit of sense just angry abuse sad sad man
Your intellect closely matches that of the bird you represent.
So Rambo what daring and dangerous missions have you been on today
get real, would rather believe a used car salesman
Yes and instead of bowing out gracefully and respectfully, you choose to stay around like bad headache that just doesn't go away.
Yes because you and your buddies posts are full of logic, intellect and intelligence
With logic like that you call my posts immature??? I wonder how on earth you passed your aptitude test
but you're more than happy to return here and belittle someone that doesn't agree with you. If stillalbatross is the village idiot you're then the village retard. hopefully I'll see you flipping burgers at burger king in a few years when you're 56!
You already did! idiot!
Stop shoveling sh/t Raven, you really are disillusioned
So Rambo what daring and dangerous missions have you been on today
get real, would rather believe a used car salesman
Yes and instead of bowing out gracefully and respectfully, you choose to stay around like bad headache that just doesn't go away.
Yes because you and your buddies posts are full of logic, intellect and intelligence
With logic like that you call my posts immature??? I wonder how on earth you passed your aptitude test
but you're more than happy to return here and belittle someone that doesn't agree with you. If stillalbatross is the village idiot you're then the village retard. hopefully I'll see you flipping burgers at burger king in a few years when you're 56!
You already did! idiot!
Stop shoveling sh/t Raven, you really are disillusioned
Last edited by CYRILJGROOVE; 28th Feb 2009 at 06:29.
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Albatross
I gave you a blueprint to acquire wealth; never said it was easy; if it doesn't work for you..... fine
Most of HK seems to raise a family in less than 800 sqs and I regularly fly with guys doing exactly what I outlined with success.
Most of HK seems to raise a family in less than 800 sqs and I regularly fly with guys doing exactly what I outlined with success.
What's the point of being miserable in 800 sf with only the possiblity of making something later IF the market goes up or remains steady? Quality of life NOW must mean something?
Each to their own I guess.
Each to their own I guess.
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That's the exact problem. No one is willing to make any sacrifice for long-term gain. And don't spout off that I could work for another 10 years to make up the difference, tired of hearing it. We all have a real sense of self-entitlement. With the amount of money we make at CX, especially on a HKG base, retiring comfortably shouldn't be such a stretch. If you take advantage of what is available to you, and LIVE A LIFESTYLE WITHIN YOUR MEANS, then it isn't that hard. Plenty have done it, and you don't see them here bleating about human rights violations. Just think about it....
box
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Cyril
Did it tell you anything you didn't already know?
Do you endorse the view that the Junior Crew's opinions are not being heard by Management; or is that just the AOA pandering to the masses: alternatively, lubing them up for the pineapple insertion
Do you endorse the view that the Junior Crew's opinions are not being heard by Management; or is that just the AOA pandering to the masses: alternatively, lubing them up for the pineapple insertion
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you are going to be fired, no option of staying on your present contract. Not much choice really eh. and CX have done it before and will do it again, I still have the DFO's letter that I "happily signed".
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At least the High Court here has ruled that you CAN be forced to retire at 65, and this has been backed by the EU, so given that bypass pay for based F/)'s is out soon, we won't have to go through the whole tedious arguement in 5 years time........
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Badly Thought Thru
The boys and girls behing this poorly thought out plan can only blame themselves for having the BPP to based officers become a high profile issue, causing it to be withdrawn and redistributed to those willing to actually do their command. A complete c*ck up and if anything a lesson to be learnt .......lets your reps plan the strategy and if you are going to attack your own membership ...think of the consequences.
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For any member of our association to refuse another member legal assistance for a case that has legal relevance and merit would be immoral in so many ways and should be thought thru before you put your name to such a shameful proposition.
