13th month.....are we getting it?
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 209
Likes: 6
From: Australia
Originally Posted by luvmuhud
I'm a Cathay Second Officer, and by definition am therefore exceedingly poor.
Saw some on special in Park-n-Rob! I'm going for a part time job down there stacking shelves at night 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
From: hong kong
it'll be capped at 10, 20 or 30K....pick your number.
This keeps the ground staff and Cabin Crew happy. They don't care much about us.
This is what CX has done in the past with profit share, and basically that is what 13th month is.
Discretion means whatever they want.
This keeps the ground staff and Cabin Crew happy. They don't care much about us.
This is what CX has done in the past with profit share, and basically that is what 13th month is.
Discretion means whatever they want.
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
From: 35,000 feet
capped and not paid
Capped in 1999, asian financial crisis
Not Paid in 2001 after 911 and the pilots had been misbehaving most of the year
paid half in 2003 after sars.
2008 at the companies discretion which may be amended from time to time.
Not Paid in 2001 after 911 and the pilots had been misbehaving most of the year
paid half in 2003 after sars.
2008 at the companies discretion which may be amended from time to time.
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 2,997
Likes: 35
From: Oztrailia
Let me see:
Fuel now 11.0% cheaper than last year
Still 6 months of the financial year to run at that price.
Xmas and Chinese new year coming
Loads still up around 75%, 50,000+ carried just the other day.
Fuel surcharge going a lot further than planned
Starting new freighter services now the price of fuel has dropped.
We will get a full 13th month.
Fuel now 11.0% cheaper than last year
Still 6 months of the financial year to run at that price.
Xmas and Chinese new year coming
Loads still up around 75%, 50,000+ carried just the other day.
Fuel surcharge going a lot further than planned
Starting new freighter services now the price of fuel has dropped.
We will get a full 13th month.
Last edited by ACMS; 28th October 2008 at 14:09.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 231
Likes: 0
From: Hong K ong
13M or Bye Bye
I have heard a few guys say esp S/O, that if they do not get a FULL 13M they'll be on their way to Emirates. Esp those whom have not paid provisional tax yet!
Why should they invest in HK Gov & take loans to pay TAX if their company does not invest in their needs to pay bills etc ... Most are trying to save to build their nonexistent balance sheet & buy property once this crisis is over..
So CX stop your propaganda pay your staff to maintain some loyalty. (What is left) Or face a number of departures to the middle east.
Your balance sheet is very strong & you'll be one of the few airlines benefiting from this crisis in the long run. So play ball or we'll put this in I'll remember category!
Why should they invest in HK Gov & take loans to pay TAX if their company does not invest in their needs to pay bills etc ... Most are trying to save to build their nonexistent balance sheet & buy property once this crisis is over..
So CX stop your propaganda pay your staff to maintain some loyalty. (What is left) Or face a number of departures to the middle east.
Your balance sheet is very strong & you'll be one of the few airlines benefiting from this crisis in the long run. So play ball or we'll put this in I'll remember category!
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 2,997
Likes: 35
From: Oztrailia
The latest IATA Platts Jet Fuel price is out:
for the week ending 24th Oct 2008---
at $85/b, down 6.5% on 1 week, down 35.5% on 1 month and DOWN 18.4% on 1 year ago.
Where will they hide the money?
for the week ending 24th Oct 2008---
at $85/b, down 6.5% on 1 week, down 35.5% on 1 month and DOWN 18.4% on 1 year ago.
Where will they hide the money?
Thread Starter
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
From: Above the Gay Bar
Quote: "I have heard a few guys say esp S/O, that if they do not get a FULL 13M they'll be on their way to Emirates. Esp those whom have not paid provisional tax yet!
Why should they invest in HK Gov & take loans to pay TAX if their company does not invest in their needs to pay bills etc ... Most are trying to save to build their nonexistent balance sheet & buy property once this crisis is over..
So CX stop your propaganda pay your staff to maintain some loyalty. (What is left) Or face a number of departures to the middle east.
Your balance sheet is very strong & you'll be one of the few airlines benefiting from this crisis in the long run. So play ball or we'll put this in I'll remember category!"
I'd like to say I share your optimism, but I don't believe a significant number of guys will leave due to no 13th month. It'd be great if they did, but they won't.
The longer I spend in this airline job, the more people I meet who are bitter and cynical with the whole airline experience, but for some reason, are still sitting up in the middle of the night flying an airliner.....I just don't get it!!
I flew with a guy recently who, after finding out one of the crew was thinking of leaving, said "Just be careful about leaving a secure job....I was furloughed 3 times before joining Cathay". My question is....what is this guy still doing flying airliners after he has seen how insecure the job can be?????????
Every month I meet more and more pilots who don't like the job, don't like the pay, don't like the lack of professional stimulation, don't like the company etc etc etc, yet are STILL HERE!!!! What a waste of a life!!
Guys.......if you don't like the job, it's definitely not going to get any better......leave and do something you enjoy!
lmh
Why should they invest in HK Gov & take loans to pay TAX if their company does not invest in their needs to pay bills etc ... Most are trying to save to build their nonexistent balance sheet & buy property once this crisis is over..
So CX stop your propaganda pay your staff to maintain some loyalty. (What is left) Or face a number of departures to the middle east.
Your balance sheet is very strong & you'll be one of the few airlines benefiting from this crisis in the long run. So play ball or we'll put this in I'll remember category!"
I'd like to say I share your optimism, but I don't believe a significant number of guys will leave due to no 13th month. It'd be great if they did, but they won't.
The longer I spend in this airline job, the more people I meet who are bitter and cynical with the whole airline experience, but for some reason, are still sitting up in the middle of the night flying an airliner.....I just don't get it!!
I flew with a guy recently who, after finding out one of the crew was thinking of leaving, said "Just be careful about leaving a secure job....I was furloughed 3 times before joining Cathay". My question is....what is this guy still doing flying airliners after he has seen how insecure the job can be?????????
Every month I meet more and more pilots who don't like the job, don't like the pay, don't like the lack of professional stimulation, don't like the company etc etc etc, yet are STILL HERE!!!! What a waste of a life!!
Guys.......if you don't like the job, it's definitely not going to get any better......leave and do something you enjoy!
lmh
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
From: australia
Yeah sit in a freaking office 9-5 doing some mindless nonsense
for even less money, where do I sign.
Hop on public transport in the peak hour in any large city
and get a good dose of how great life is in the real world.
Give me a black windsceen for 14 hours a few times a month,
and let some other sucker sit in an office all their life.
for even less money, where do I sign.
Hop on public transport in the peak hour in any large city
and get a good dose of how great life is in the real world.
Give me a black windsceen for 14 hours a few times a month,
and let some other sucker sit in an office all their life.
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Asia
Unfortunately the current fuel price has very little to do with what CX are paying for fuel at present. This is particularly so given the fact that it appears they may have hedged too much at the high end of the spectrum and are liable for the losses incured when the fuel price drops.
As usual no one in mamagement will take the blame but my guess is the staff will cover the hedging losses through non payment or reduction of 13th month.
As usual no one in mamagement will take the blame but my guess is the staff will cover the hedging losses through non payment or reduction of 13th month.
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 2,997
Likes: 35
From: Oztrailia
well I've maintained all along that we will get the full 13th month...........................but now I'm not so sure?
Seems they did completely f
up the hedging and yep we will be the ones taking it up the a and not them.
I certainly hope they hedge the fuel at the current $85/b for the maximum number of years, I don't think it'll ever be less than this now.
Kucking Funts................
Seems they did completely f
up the hedging and yep we will be the ones taking it up the a and not them.I certainly hope they hedge the fuel at the current $85/b for the maximum number of years, I don't think it'll ever be less than this now.
Kucking Funts................
Joined: Mar 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 1,374
Likes: 285
From: Moved beyond
Given the doom and gloom coming from the 9th floor over the last few months and the CEOs statement that "conserving cash will be key", I'd say the chances of them paying a 13th month are ZERO. They're so worried they cancelled the 777 Fleet Party next week!
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Asia
I think we can safely assume that 13th month will be non-existant or reduced to pocket change. What will be interesting will be the dividend paid to shareholders. The usual rhetoric of "we all have to share the pain" will be spruced by management to the staff but the same should apply to the shareholders. That's part of the joy and risk of holding shares in any company.
I do, however, doubt this will be the case as in the first half the Company still paid a dividend, albeit a small one, even though they posted a loss of $663 million. What goes against the grain is that this dividend has to be borrowed or paid from the existing balance sheet, in this case $118 million. It may seem like a small amount but it ends up being around a quarter of the monthly staff wage bill. If it's good enough to pay the investors in these times, it's good enough for the staff to receive the same.
I do, however, doubt this will be the case as in the first half the Company still paid a dividend, albeit a small one, even though they posted a loss of $663 million. What goes against the grain is that this dividend has to be borrowed or paid from the existing balance sheet, in this case $118 million. It may seem like a small amount but it ends up being around a quarter of the monthly staff wage bill. If it's good enough to pay the investors in these times, it's good enough for the staff to receive the same.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
From: HKG
wait! I was under the impression that the losses made in the interim results whilst other airlines turned large profits was partly due to the fact that cathay DIDN'T hedge as aggressively on fuel!? And because we were filling our tanks at market price during the record fuel prices. Can someone explain to me why we are now being told that we are suffering due to our fuel hedging?! Whilst the AOA has written extensively on how the company will be more profitable in the 2nd half with the current fuel prices! Am I missing something here?
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: not here for much longer
let me guess ... they hedged so much more aggressively when oil was about 140$
now would have been the time to earn their bonus payments, but they f*cked it up - again.
Any moron can run an airline when the economy is under full steam and 1st class tickets sell like warm bread ...
now would have been the time to earn their bonus payments, but they f*cked it up - again.
Any moron can run an airline when the economy is under full steam and 1st class tickets sell like warm bread ...