Impeach JF!!
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Impeach JF!!
Come on AoA committee and members!
How long are we going to sit around and let JF collect his handsome salary and p-fund.
His integrity is now completely gone and he is an embarrassment to Unionism.
We need someone with some fortitude and direction to assist in rebuilding the AoA.
Not a turncoat sitting around waiting for his p-fund to multiply.
Time for a new Gen Sec.
Comments???
How long are we going to sit around and let JF collect his handsome salary and p-fund.
His integrity is now completely gone and he is an embarrassment to Unionism.
We need someone with some fortitude and direction to assist in rebuilding the AoA.
Not a turncoat sitting around waiting for his p-fund to multiply.
Time for a new Gen Sec.
Comments???
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I don't know.......... Seems we're hearing a lot more from him these days which I ve thought maybe good. His newsletters are sounding more and more anti -Company each time. I just wish we'd start sorting out the DEFO and PAY issues instead of just talking about it.
As an aside.............. Many more people joining the AoA now, but I've also heard there are just as many leaving...... ANy numbers from those in the know?????
As an aside.............. Many more people joining the AoA now, but I've also heard there are just as many leaving...... ANy numbers from those in the know?????
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Let's get rid of the lame HKAOA altogether. Let's make the CPU our official representation. We need hard-core individuals with militant mindset when dealing with the thugs at Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd.
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Another thinly disguised attempt at recruitment from an already failed pres! He mishandled the AOA job and wants to have another go - I say let him and JW continue their sad rant together as a true union - 2 of them!
Oh and before I forget, JF's package (sic) is better than even the most senior B-scale Capt. Market forces?
Oh and before I forget, JF's package (sic) is better than even the most senior B-scale Capt. Market forces?
I hate to buy into this issue but perhaps, as I am not long for this place, and because my membership spans decades not years, I feel I should profer some advice.
JF is a man with his heart in the right place but it is indeed time for a change.
The AOA needs a big picture person. There is ABSOLUTELY no point in taking the company to task on every small issue. We need to address the issue of careers not overnight allowances.
Nothing can be achieved with short range thinking.
With 80-90% of pilots as members the AOA gets a seat at the table and a negotiating position.
I listen to a lot of ideas everytime I go to work. I profer simple advice as that is the best I can manage.
Many of the young blades I fly with are the smartest idiots I have come across. Most excel on transmit but have limited reception. We are our own worst enemies.
While we continue to fight only small ticket items, the company wins and we lose.
As an example, some of the most PRO-active people in the AOA are not on the hit-list.
Why?
Very simple.
They chose NOT to take out their frustration in an instinctive and impetuous way. That in no way condones what happened in 2001.
It is still Adrian's train set. You want a seat at his table, get together and earn a seat. That may even take the take the form of becoming a major shareholder via a pooling of shareholdings!!
All the best.
JF is a man with his heart in the right place but it is indeed time for a change.
The AOA needs a big picture person. There is ABSOLUTELY no point in taking the company to task on every small issue. We need to address the issue of careers not overnight allowances.
Nothing can be achieved with short range thinking.
With 80-90% of pilots as members the AOA gets a seat at the table and a negotiating position.
I listen to a lot of ideas everytime I go to work. I profer simple advice as that is the best I can manage.
Many of the young blades I fly with are the smartest idiots I have come across. Most excel on transmit but have limited reception. We are our own worst enemies.
While we continue to fight only small ticket items, the company wins and we lose.
As an example, some of the most PRO-active people in the AOA are not on the hit-list.
Why?
Very simple.
They chose NOT to take out their frustration in an instinctive and impetuous way. That in no way condones what happened in 2001.
It is still Adrian's train set. You want a seat at his table, get together and earn a seat. That may even take the take the form of becoming a major shareholder via a pooling of shareholdings!!
All the best.
Last edited by VR-HFX; 16th Oct 2008 at 10:38.
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Nigel744
His salary is based on SFO level so like many of us he has had one 3% payrise in 7 years. He also receives some housing, as a cash assistance(for tax purposes) - his remuneration was set up this way by the GC around 2000-2001 methinks, when your namesake was in charge.
Nigel 744, for your statement to be true implies JF is on a salary(package) of well over $200K per month. Most senior B scale CN earns around $106K plus housing allowance of $103K (nett of $8.2K contributions) HDP of around $7K per month, travel allowance of between $5-15K per month and Education allowance for say two kids at over $10K per month if in HKG and not in boarding school. (I have ignored training allowances and PF contributions - obviously JF does not get STC/BTC allowances like his B scale peers)
So the most senior B scale CN would be getting around $230-$240K in his 'package' - JF gets less than half that figure.
The most senior FO gets around $75K, $3-4K HDP, Education allowance of around $10K per month and housing at RFZ of around $65(?)K. So the SFO total package is around $150K per month.
So again, you will find JF falls way behind that.
Tell me, would you work for an organisation for over 16 years with your pay capped at SFO level? I guess we can asked the new joiners of the last couple of years, but at least they might get to command before two decades are done!
Still, never let the truth get in the way of a good mud slinging!
Nigel 744, for your statement to be true implies JF is on a salary(package) of well over $200K per month. Most senior B scale CN earns around $106K plus housing allowance of $103K (nett of $8.2K contributions) HDP of around $7K per month, travel allowance of between $5-15K per month and Education allowance for say two kids at over $10K per month if in HKG and not in boarding school. (I have ignored training allowances and PF contributions - obviously JF does not get STC/BTC allowances like his B scale peers)
So the most senior B scale CN would be getting around $230-$240K in his 'package' - JF gets less than half that figure.
The most senior FO gets around $75K, $3-4K HDP, Education allowance of around $10K per month and housing at RFZ of around $65(?)K. So the SFO total package is around $150K per month.
So again, you will find JF falls way behind that.
Tell me, would you work for an organisation for over 16 years with your pay capped at SFO level? I guess we can asked the new joiners of the last couple of years, but at least they might get to command before two decades are done!
Still, never let the truth get in the way of a good mud slinging!
Numero
Thank you for the clarity.
I agree that JF is NOT OVERLY remunerated but in all organisations there comes a time when change is necessary.
With all due respect, it is time for change at the AOA...just as it is time for Swire to trash the 1970's gang .
Cheers
Thank you for the clarity.
I agree that JF is NOT OVERLY remunerated but in all organisations there comes a time when change is necessary.
With all due respect, it is time for change at the AOA...just as it is time for Swire to trash the 1970's gang .
Cheers
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VR. The big picture is all well and good but there's also an old saying about looking after the pennies. One thing that ND was very good at was not letting the company get away with ANYTHING. They knew that if they tried any contract abuse on his watch he'd be on to them so we saw very little of it. I'm not suggesting we vote him back in as pres but we could do with having him on the committee for his pure tenaciousness.
Whenever they try to pull one over any of our pilot group we should be on to them. The more we let slide, the more they take the p!ss. Whether it's the LEP bypass issue, a lack of regard for rostering agreements or their abolition of the FACA, we need to be on them sharpish.
Whenever they try to pull one over any of our pilot group we should be on to them. The more we let slide, the more they take the p!ss. Whether it's the LEP bypass issue, a lack of regard for rostering agreements or their abolition of the FACA, we need to be on them sharpish.
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20%
Seems we're hearing a lot more from him these days which I ve thought maybe good. His newsletters are sounding more and more anti -Company each time.
Whenever they try to pull one over any of our pilot group we should be on to them.
JF is a sad remnant of AOA history but ironically an appropriate mascot for what he and others let the AOA turn into. Video club.
I suggest closing the door on JF's office and sending the 20% saved to CPU to help the 49er's court case.
Either that or give him a raise like you all are asking for. NC do you know - when was his last pay raise?
Last edited by canuckster; 16th Oct 2008 at 16:05.
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canuckster, you really are a bladderhead. As for the rest of you,how can you reconcile a post that supports sacking someone because you're a bit bored with him, or because those who are supposed to direct his efforts are either incapable or don't understand their duties properly, and all the bleating about how crappily CX treats its staff, and how much better it would be if pilots and not Swire scum were in charge? John is an employee who acts as directed by the HKAOA GC. If he is not carrying out his duties as requested, then there is a D&G procedure. If he IS carrying out his duties but is wrongly instructed that's YOUR fault, not his! 
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JF and Clive have to go.
So it comes down to who proposes the motion, then who seconds the motion, then we have a vote.
Or we come up with 10% of the aircrew to force a vote.
Methinks nothing will happen as no one will propose it.
Again lots of talk but no action.
So it comes down to who proposes the motion, then who seconds the motion, then we have a vote.
Or we come up with 10% of the aircrew to force a vote.
Methinks nothing will happen as no one will propose it.
Again lots of talk but no action.
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JF works for the members as our employee. He does what the AOA President and GC tell him to do.
The fact that he has been out of the spotlight for the past 4 years, probably reflected the working style of the last Pres', who was not keen to delegate. If he is not being given any work to do, then how can we question his effectiveness?
With the new GC, the work load seems to be shared around, and I have been told that JF is being given lots to do.
The fact that he has been out of the spotlight for the past 4 years, probably reflected the working style of the last Pres', who was not keen to delegate. If he is not being given any work to do, then how can we question his effectiveness?
With the new GC, the work load seems to be shared around, and I have been told that JF is being given lots to do.
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johnathon68 thank god some rational comments.
JF is the head piece of the AoA but as we know, works to the GC'S schedule, if the past GC gave him nothing to do then that was their fault not his!!!
By all accounts he is being snowed under by the current GC so the system does work. He has direct lines of comms to Employment Departments and CAD, he has the background knowledge on just about everything that has happened to us in the last decade, so if we were to go forward and start giving it back to the company, i would sure as hell want him on board and on our side!!!!
All the doubters are once again way off the mark with their accuracy but as NC said, why let the truth get in the way of a good ol fashioned mud slinging!!!
JF is the head piece of the AoA but as we know, works to the GC'S schedule, if the past GC gave him nothing to do then that was their fault not his!!!
By all accounts he is being snowed under by the current GC so the system does work. He has direct lines of comms to Employment Departments and CAD, he has the background knowledge on just about everything that has happened to us in the last decade, so if we were to go forward and start giving it back to the company, i would sure as hell want him on board and on our side!!!!
All the doubters are once again way off the mark with their accuracy but as NC said, why let the truth get in the way of a good ol fashioned mud slinging!!!
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JF is the head piece of the AoA but as we know, works to the GC'S schedule, if the past GC gave him nothing to do then that was their fault not his!!!
Quite the organisation. Where do I sign?
