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Direct Entry Captains

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Direct Entry Captains

Old 26th Jul 2008, 15:41
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Very small apatment
Posts: 9
Direct Entry Captains

Hey Guys and girls crossed paths the other day with a very sheepish looking DE Captain ex Oasis. Don't give em the time of day I say !, its the least we can do. These guys don't give a flying left about your position so won't get any small talk from me. Meet downstairs for a beer ?, dream on lowlife.
Call me Skipper is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 15:47
  #2 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 754
I second that motion.
broadband circuit is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 16:25
  #3 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: York International
Posts: 626
Ex Gmo Ka Dec Lhr
Fly747 is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 18:12
  #4 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Underside
Posts: 65

What about all the "Good guys" ex KA UK that had their jobs taken when CX took us over.
Dont tar them with the same brush as the ex GMO!

Feather Boa is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 18:27
  #5 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: HKG
Posts: 1,385
"That had their jobs taken"!!!?
I also find dec lhr difficult to believe but am happy to receive any info.
BusyB is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 20:01
  #6 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Nippi
Posts: 235
Do direct entry Captains have to do a PCA. If not isn't that discrimination.
DropKnee is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 21:46
  #7 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: hong kong
Posts: 139
Of course no PCA for them....still an old boys club. And technically, I believe, they are hired as FO's (for one day, or less); then they get the command slot that "no one else wants".
Of course this only happens if you are in the "club"
4 driver is online now  
Old 26th Jul 2008, 23:59
  #8 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 254
Whoa...don't go putting the KA guys in with the Oasis guys here.

Dragonair had it's own 747-400s but CX decided to take at least 4 of those 7 aircraft, repaint them in CX colours and force the KA Captains to have to undergo 'rapid-command' courses to once again be able to fly these very same aircraft! Nobody at KA Freight was vaguely interested in transferring to CX before this corporate decision.

Of course the reason CX took this decision with regards to Dragonair was that KA's then GMO and probably the Personnel Dept made a monumental stuff-up of the freighter (and passenger) operation by tring relentlessly to screw pilots out of their T&Cs or stonewalling much-needed improvements. The modus operandii was 'if you don't like it leave': and that's exactly what happenned! To the point where the whole KA operation was evidently becoming unviable.

So now the deposed KA GMO simply flies of home to a DEC in the UK and the rest of the KA pilots are being forced to do command courses simply to fly the very same airframes they have been poling-around for years.

As feather-Boa says, don't ever say any ex-KA Captain is taking anything from anybody at CX. This was all very unwelcome.
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Old 27th Jul 2008, 00:31
  #9 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: asia
Age: 48
Posts: 156
Thumbs down

The whole thing stinks, and makes a mockery of even having a seniority list! As always they are the first to wave it around when it suits their ends, while at the same time using back door 'work arounds' to shaft the guys waiting for upgrades!!!

" We gave them command positions none of the current crew wanted " Yeah good one, I'm going to give up my house AND take a pay cut to go into the left seat! Gee I wonder why they had empty slots!!

Myself and a lot of the other F/o's are fuming about it!! I predict they are going to have serious motivation issues with the guys from here on in!! Why bother putting any work in, when there's bound to be ANOTHER shafting waiting just around the corner!

Just makes you want to

Buggs out
buggaluggs is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2008, 02:28
  #10 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Very small apatment
Posts: 9
Great to see some input and direction from our super cautious - gently does it Union. Gee there's not much we can do about it guys doesn't cut it. F/O's are asking themselves what has this Union done for me, there are alot of guys with the resignation letter pending. Even the girls laugh at us for our lack of b*lls when it comes to dealing with the company. In many eyes the Union has turned into a meek rubber stamp for CX, even apologizing when putting up some opposition. There better be some major changes with ST gone.
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Old 27th Jul 2008, 05:50
  #11 (permalink)  
Posts: n/a
Smile Like I said

Some time ago. We and the AOA gave up the ship long before this and now we are stuck. We and the AOA are not willing to put up a fight like the girls (and boys) of the F/A union. So we just need to shut up and take it in the tail pipe. I want to thank the AOA and particularly S.T. and J.F. for srewing us. I now know they work for the compnay and NOT the membership.
Old 27th Jul 2008, 08:07
  #12 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Brexitland
Posts: 1,135
Only way you lot will change anything is to leave. Nobody leaves so CX just keep turning the screws. AOA? It's a non-effectual joke and due to the constant whining by the SO/FO lobby, doesn't actually represent anyone. There are 'A' scale Captains in the AOA - do they have to take a pay cut to be represented? Or a demotion? Hundreds of Direct entry Captains and extendees taking all those Commands in the fullness of time. Why? Because Cx feels like it and nobody does a thing - except moan on PPRuNe. Wow! Scary stuff!!
Arfur Dent is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2008, 10:53
  #13 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The Underside
Posts: 65

Thanks. Exactly what I meant, but it was late and after a few beers couldn't be bothered to explain in detail!

Couldn't even spell Whoa!!!!

Feather Boa is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2008, 11:50
  #14 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: HKG
Posts: 1,385
Dragonair had 2 B744's, CX leased them a further 2 but they only had crews to fly 3 in all so instead of a further 2 (numbers 5 and 6) the whole arrangement was reviewed ending up as it is now.
BusyB is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2008, 13:58
  #15 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Very small apatment
Posts: 9
Siberfuchs I have to disagree with you on the fact that Oasis/K.A or re-joiners (G.O. can you believe he's here again, almost beyond a joke) are blameless. It's a question of morals and those guys know very well they are shafting you and I. Keep it simple.

It's a sad day when our last vestige is PPRuNe, not the AOA, and I know I'm preaching to the converted but guys spread the word to your more relaxed collegues, don't be Mr nice guy at dispatch, let these guys know we are not fools and they are un-welcome to say the least. Who did I fly for before CX - none of your bussiness mate.
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Old 27th Jul 2008, 14:38
  #16 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: mars
Posts: 206
The AOA should put a vote to the membership for action and take action. This affects all, not just those awaiting command upgrades.

I'll make my thoughts known to the AOA, how many of you are willing to do the same....

I hear guys all the time, complaining on PPRuNe or at the pub, but they cant be asked to take a simple of step of letting the AOA know what they want.

Seniority list, what a joke.... I hope youre all working to rule.
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Old 27th Jul 2008, 16:49
  #17 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Very small apatment
Posts: 9
Humber10 I am with you on that and I too will let the AOA know in writing (a quick 2 min yap on the phone does nothing) that I want some reaction. It's make or break time for me, this is the reason we are part of the Union, not for monthly updates on my income protection.

Last edited by Call me Skipper; 28th Jul 2008 at 01:10.
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Old 27th Jul 2008, 17:39
  #18 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: HKG
Posts: 1,385
Its already being looked at by the GC
BusyB is offline  
Old 28th Jul 2008, 00:27
  #19 (permalink)  
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Derbyshire, England.
Posts: 4,067
Call me Skipper - Dare I offer you a little bit of advice? (37 years in professional aviation). If I met you at dispatch and you showed signs of the hostility you suggest I would off-load you, shortage or no, one simply doesn't take that kind of shit into the air or down route, it is a flight safety hazard.
It doesn't matter how right you may be and how wrong they may be you must still remain professional and sort your grievance out with those that caused it or allowed it to happen. Your resignation won't bother CX one bit, they will still be there when you retire and your current approach is setting you up for the sack anyway. One day you may be looking for a DEC job yourself, don't answer now but when you have to make the decision, will you turn it down on moral or ethical grounds?
Blast away here on PPRuNe, of course, that is what it is for but be very careful about taking a bad attitude to work, you immediately put yourself in the wrong.
Just advice, that is all.
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Old 28th Jul 2008, 01:25
  #20 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Very small apatment
Posts: 9
Parabellum thanks for the good advice, I hope all reading this thread will keep it professional but curt at work. By the way I have met with some pretty hostile, unprofessional attitudes from the left over the years, but that's ok isn't it (no I didn't bring it upon myself, I did make the effort).

Last edited by Call me Skipper; 28th Jul 2008 at 03:00.
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