Typhoon.
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Typhoon.
Apparently over 25 diversions last night, quite a few missed approaches. The boys (and girls) sure enough earned their pay last night! A safe job done by all. Good work folks.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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agreed !!! kudos to all boys & gals who have done an EXCELLENT job flying safely. winds was reported gusting up to 44 kts and alot of W/S ... anyone mind to share the experiences ?
Join Date: Jun 1999
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As one of the diversions yesterday, due hard windshear warning and then several bouts of severe mechanical turbulence in the departure, I would just like to say a big THANKS to ATC on a job very well done.
I eventually made it back at 0100 this morning!!
(Off to work again now...can u guess who I work for!!)
Gliderboy
I eventually made it back at 0100 this morning!!
(Off to work again now...can u guess who I work for!!)
Gliderboy
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Wasn't handled as smoothly in the terminal as it might have been out on the GS.
LOTS of upset pax, groundstaff overwhelmed, no info forthcoming etc etc etc. I really struggle to understand why it is so hard for groundstaff to just come out with the truth when you ask them what is going on. Or does nobody tell them either?
Pax were only told as much as 8 hours (in other world at sunrise this morning) after their flight was due to depart that it is now cancelled for a further 12 hours ....
LOTS of upset pax, groundstaff overwhelmed, no info forthcoming etc etc etc. I really struggle to understand why it is so hard for groundstaff to just come out with the truth when you ask them what is going on. Or does nobody tell them either?
Pax were only told as much as 8 hours (in other world at sunrise this morning) after their flight was due to depart that it is now cancelled for a further 12 hours ....
I would also like to endorse what gliderboy said and thank HK ATC for doing such a highly professional job last night. You guys where absolutely brilliant !!!
As has been proven again and again, HK ATC are an absolute God send under such difficult conditions and believe me, it is a great reassurance knowing that.
Again, from the bottom of my boggies, THANK YOU.
As has been proven again and again, HK ATC are an absolute God send under such difficult conditions and believe me, it is a great reassurance knowing that.
Again, from the bottom of my boggies, THANK YOU.
Join Date: Jun 2005
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A Huge thank you and a job extremely well done to HKG ATC, both on the ground and in the air.
Arrival and departure was a wild ride.
Again, my sincere thanks to ATC.
Arrival and departure was a wild ride.
Again, my sincere thanks to ATC.
Cool as a moosp
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Yes well done ATC, had good radar vectors onto the ILS with 220/57 knots at 4500ft. Takes some radar skill does that.
We all kept asking for the straight ahead to 5000 ft option for the go around as in a missed approach under those winds the thought of making a turn to downwind at 185 kts, towards the highest hills in HKG and then to try and find LKC is a bit daunting. I know it gives you a bit of hassle with other traffic but we sure appreciated it last night.
And the quick left downwind back to River worked well, only took another 2500kgs so we had fuel for that second go, and landed.
Its a bit of a worry when all the airports within fuel range tell your that they are full, and will only accept you emergency only. That's not quite what we want from an alternate. I have no doubt our people will be talking to Manila and Taipei to see if something better can be arranged. It would be silly in this day and age of fuel prices to all gas up to carry NOP, BKK or Naha.
We all kept asking for the straight ahead to 5000 ft option for the go around as in a missed approach under those winds the thought of making a turn to downwind at 185 kts, towards the highest hills in HKG and then to try and find LKC is a bit daunting. I know it gives you a bit of hassle with other traffic but we sure appreciated it last night.
And the quick left downwind back to River worked well, only took another 2500kgs so we had fuel for that second go, and landed.
Its a bit of a worry when all the airports within fuel range tell your that they are full, and will only accept you emergency only. That's not quite what we want from an alternate. I have no doubt our people will be talking to Manila and Taipei to see if something better can be arranged. It would be silly in this day and age of fuel prices to all gas up to carry NOP, BKK or Naha.
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I agree HK ATC did a fantastic job. We tried to get in but ended up diverting, ATC also gave us clearance for straight ahead in the event of a GA which helped greatly when I pressed those TOGA switches 
A big thanks to HK ATC for a job well done
A big thanks to HK ATC for a job well done
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I'm not a pilot but such conditions got me wondering about some things.
Suppose there are very strong crosswinds and a go-around initiated and ATC gives you vectors for a circuit to return for another try. I would imagine that the wind would cause IAS to increase or decrease significantly depending on whether you're turning into or away from it for the upwind or for base leg. How do you pilots handle such situations? Reduce the bank angle or even add/reduce thrust before turning?
Suppose there are very strong crosswinds and a go-around initiated and ATC gives you vectors for a circuit to return for another try. I would imagine that the wind would cause IAS to increase or decrease significantly depending on whether you're turning into or away from it for the upwind or for base leg. How do you pilots handle such situations? Reduce the bank angle or even add/reduce thrust before turning?
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Was also one of the departures on Friday night & would also like to acknowledge the highly professional job HKG ATC did in managing the whole situation from keeping us advised of the delays to getting us away quickly once we had pushed back. I was expecting to use a lot more fuel on the ground than we did. Well done guys & girls.
Diversions in Typhoon conditions
I remember a Speedbird callsign doing a missed approach from Kai Tak just after a Typhoon had ripped through Hong Kong some time in the early 90's. After all the traumas of carrying out a couple of missed approaches (questionable as to whether you put everyone through more than one - if that) they announced their intention to divert to Guangzhou (ZGGG). 'Guangzhou is closed to further traffic' said ATC. ZGGG was the nominated alternate and the boys had programmed the route into their kit and used the alternate fuel relative to ZGGG as the basis for their entire operation that night. Nobody had ever mentioned the fact that it was now 'closed to further traffic'.
When asked for his intentions regarding his baulked diversion, the Speedbird Captain simply said 'Mayday,Mayday - diverting to ZGGG'. When asked for the reason for declaration of Mayday, he said -'Short of fuel'.
Good on him. Dog wags tail - not other way around - especially in highly stressful situations. Park on the taxiway etc etc. Discuss the 'reasons for a Mayday' later.
Not sure how it would go down now but worth discussing.
When asked for his intentions regarding his baulked diversion, the Speedbird Captain simply said 'Mayday,Mayday - diverting to ZGGG'. When asked for the reason for declaration of Mayday, he said -'Short of fuel'.
Good on him. Dog wags tail - not other way around - especially in highly stressful situations. Park on the taxiway etc etc. Discuss the 'reasons for a Mayday' later.
Not sure how it would go down now but worth discussing.
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Must admit to being a little confused by the last part of moosps post, what could these other airports do, divert other aircraft away so that CX can carry less fuel and divert to them? KHH/TPE/ZGGG/ZGSZ have ALWAYS filled up quickly when this sort of weather causes diversions and you should plan accordingly.........
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These days ATC are proactive and actually tell you that if you declare an emergency then you can divert to the field of your choice after telling you that place is full. Thanks to ATC for being proactive!!
Also a word of warning to those who wish for anonymity. There have been plenty of clues here for those detectives to work out or at least narrow down who was who. Moosp.....DPS trip?
Also a word of warning to those who wish for anonymity. There have been plenty of clues here for those detectives to work out or at least narrow down who was who. Moosp.....DPS trip?
Join Date: Jun 2006
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I recall as a controller an A340 from an airline just North of the US missing out twice on the RWY 13 IGS at Kai Tak, then making 2 missed approaches at Macau (which was just recently completed), heading off towards ZGGG, getting to around TAMOT, declaring a fuel emergency, and then we gave him a PAR monitored ILS onto RWY 31 with about 20 knots tail wind and vis about 300 meters. First we in the tower saw of him, was him vacating 31 at about A3. They were pretty quiet!
Cool as a moosp
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Kitsune, that the point. An alternate should be bullet proof, and available to anyone who files it. If too many people file MCM inbound to HKG than the airport can accept, then the ATC computers should reject the request. It will only be when most transpac carriers have to carry Naha that something will be done about this.
It is unacceptable to be told that your filed alternate is full. That airport should have stopped accepting themselves as an alternate at the planning stage. There are SITA networks available to ensure this. Don't hold your breath on this though as it could be years before it is implemented.
Oh and ken yes I know my forum name is transparent to most people that know me, that's why I use it. But do you know my phantom postings name?
It is unacceptable to be told that your filed alternate is full. That airport should have stopped accepting themselves as an alternate at the planning stage. There are SITA networks available to ensure this. Don't hold your breath on this though as it could be years before it is implemented.
Oh and ken yes I know my forum name is transparent to most people that know me, that's why I use it. But do you know my phantom postings name?
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A long day!
Rumour has it ................
A CX flight from BKK to HKG ended up doing a MAP and diverting to TPE. THEN ... refuelled, had another go at HKG with another MAP and off to KHH, then another refuel and finally got into HKG on the third attempt. WOW!!! That is a long and stressful day!
A CX flight from BKK to HKG ended up doing a MAP and diverting to TPE. THEN ... refuelled, had another go at HKG with another MAP and off to KHH, then another refuel and finally got into HKG on the third attempt. WOW!!! That is a long and stressful day!