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CX Diversion to ZGGG

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CX Diversion to ZGGG

Old 6th Apr 2008, 14:18
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CX Diversion to ZGGG

On the news tonight. A Cathay flight diverted to ZGGG from RCTP. No doubt a split duty if the crew ran out of hours. But why the several hours on the ground in ZGGG before returning to VHHH? Was it a crewing problem? Was it a 777 and no one with China visas? What about autoland? Holding issues causing a divert? So much bad publicity. Terrible, terrible.....
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Old 6th Apr 2008, 15:06
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Not a good choice of diversion. "So, you have diverted from an approach to Hong Kong to the People's Republic of China. Where did you take off from?"

"The Republic Of China!" Not the best answer. Perhaps this explains the delay on the ground at Guangzhou!
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Old 6th Apr 2008, 15:50
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260,270,748 to zggg today
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Old 6th Apr 2008, 23:27
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Anybody know what the viz was yesterday?

I thought that Cat3a would have been ok but obviously not.

Sounds like a long, hard days work!
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Old 6th Apr 2008, 23:49
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On the ATIS the RVR was down to 300m at around 0800 yesterday morning. I don't know if it was lower than that earlier in the morning. ZGGG was the only alternate in the area that wasn't clagged in. The early flights out of TPE for HKG all had ZGGG as the FILED alternate.
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Old 7th Apr 2008, 00:37
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It's that time of the year.


VHHH 052000Z 03003KT 4800 0200N R07R/P2000 R25L/P2000 R07L/0125N R25R/P2000
BCFG FEW010 21/20 Q1014 NOSIG=
VHHH 052023Z 35004KT 0300 0200W R07R/0175D R25L/P2000 R07L/0150N R25R/P2000 FG
FEW010 21/20 Q1014 NOSIG=
VHHH 052030Z 35004KT 0300 0200W R07R/0200N R25L/P2000 R07L/0200N R25R/P2000 FG
FEW010 21/20 Q1014 NOSIG=
VHHH 052100Z 34007KT 0450 0400E R07R/0400N R25L/0500N R07L/0300N R25R/0350N FG
FEW010 21/20 Q1014 NOSIG=
VHHH 052130Z 30004KT 0500 0400W R07R/0500N R25L/0400N R07L/0275N R25R/0400N FG
VV001 21/20 Q1014 NOSIG=
VHHH 052200Z VRB03KT 480 R07R/0300N R25L/0400N R07L/0325V0550N R25R/0275N FG
VV001 21/20 Q1015 NOSIG=
VHHH 052200Z VRB03KT 0480 R07R/0300N R25L/0400N R07L/0325V0550N R25R/0275N FG
VV001 21/20 Q1015 NOSIG=
VHHH 052230Z 32003KT 0300 0280W R07R/0225N R25L/0400N R07L/0225N
R25R/0200V0300N FG VV002 21/21 Q1015 NOSIG=
VHHH 052300Z VRB02KT 0300 0200W R07R/0150N R25L/0350V0650N R07L/0275N
R25R/0600N FG VV002 21/20 Q1015 NOSIG=
VHHH 052312Z VRB02KT 0350 0300W R07R/0750N R25L/0550N R07L/0225N R25R/0600N FG
VV002 21/20 Q1015 NOSIG=
VHHH 052330Z 02003KT 0250 R07R/0700N R25L/0400V0650N R07L/0175V0275N R25R/0200N
FG VV002 21/21 Q1015 NOSIG=
VHHH 052342Z 02003KT 0200 0200E R07R/1400N R25L/0800V1700U R07L/0175N
R25R/0150N FG VV002 21/21 Q1016 NOSIG=
VHHH 060000Z 05003KT 0150 0150N R07R/0800V1200U R25L/0700D R07L/0125N
R25R/0125N FG VV002 22/21 Q1016 NOSIG=
VHHH 060030Z 05004KT 0250 0150W R07R/1200V1800N R25L/0225N R07L/0125N
R25R/0250V0375N BCFG FEW018 22/21 Q1016 NOSIG=
VHHH 060047Z 01003KT 1600 0150W R07R/P2000 R25L/0900V1900U R07L/0175N
R25R/0650V1800N BCFG FEW018 23/21 Q1016 NOSIG=
VHHH 060100Z 34005KT 0400 0200N R07R/P2000 R25L/P2000 R07L/0175V0325N
R25R/0375V0700D BCFG FEW010 23/21 Q1016 NOSIG=
VHHH 060100Z 34005KT 0400 0200N R07R/P2000 R25L/P2000 R07L/0175V0325N
R25R/0375V0700D BCFG FEW010 SCT018 23/21 Q1016 NOSIG=
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Old 7th Apr 2008, 01:28
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Quote: The early flights out of TPE for HKG all had ZGGG as the FILED alternate.

The best alternate is obviously Macau. If this isn't suitable, the other passenger carrying airline in the CX group files Kaohsiung or Taipei. This is for political reasons. Direct flights between the PRC and Taiwan aren't allowed - yet!

According to the SCMP, the delay was at first passengers not getting off the aircraft because they were demanding compensation, and then the flight delayed because 'the pilots were too tired to fly home' according to one passenger. I think it was duty hours.

Last edited by Dan Winterland; 7th Apr 2008 at 05:02. Reason: spillong
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Old 7th Apr 2008, 01:36
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All flights returned to Hong Kong with with some using commanders discretion.

Most commanders realise that commanders discretion is expected, if not we will require to know why it was not used. That is why you are one of the best compensated. It is expected!

We like to thank those crew for using their goodwill and not stranding over 1000 passengers in China. As a commander there will be countless question to be answered if you decide not to use discretion and strand our passengers. You had better have a very good excuse, if not the commander will pay the price. Keep that in mind.

There are some that appreciate the extra profit share bonus and are willing to do what they can to help The Cathay Pacific Group. Again we thank you.

In situation like this, strive to take only the fuel that you require as it is a very high cost item.

To My Bonus

The Management

Last edited by The Management; 7th Apr 2008 at 04:09.
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Old 7th Apr 2008, 02:09
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What kind of back ass officials are we dealing with in ZGGG?
They won't let anyone off or allow relief crews to come in !
Our Line Ops team should have contingencies in force for this....
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Old 7th Apr 2008, 04:46
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I was glad i was outbound that morning, we were just airborne when someone else went around...

The question to ask is why is there only 1 rwy with Cat3A and no cat 3B approaches in HK.
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Old 7th Apr 2008, 05:06
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Quote: What kind of back ass officials are we dealing with in ZGGG?
They won't let anyone off or allow relief crews to come in !
Our Line Ops team should have contingencies in force for this....


It's politics. It's they way the world is! They were lucky to get out of ZGGG after 8 hours. And the relief crews can't get in without visas. Dispatch should learn from this and consider which airfield they file as an alternate in future.
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Old 7th Apr 2008, 10:26
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Or maybe there was no relief crews, and they had to wait for someone to actually answer the phone and work on a G before they could send anyone up to fly back??????
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Old 7th Apr 2008, 11:29
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Or maybe there was no relief crews, and they had to wait for someone to actually answer the phone and work on a G before they could send anyone up to fly back??????
Which is probable just as well as there was shortage of ATC too

Yoohoo, supervisor! Can you come here?
Oh there isnt one -there all plugged in!
Atleast no "fuel critical" notes yesterday.
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Old 7th Apr 2008, 12:00
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They are tight

DDDOF,

I think you may have hit the nail on the head. There are no pilots. The JNB flight tonight signs on in 2h20min and it is still missing a FO. Maybe this is a 3 man ULH trial run!!!

They are leaving it late these days!
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Old 7th Apr 2008, 13:02
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I believe it was a split duty flight from Taipei. Hence the out of hours situation. Can't remember when the only alternate out of Taipei for Hkg has been anyplace other than Macau , back to Taipei or down to Manila.
If I am missing something here please enlighten me. If the wx in Macau was not great return fuel should have been carried.
But then I'm just a plane spotter from Mongkok.
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Old 7th Apr 2008, 13:12
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By the way , it's official according to tonights news , cronic eye infection in Hkg is due to dirty bed linen, curtains and aircon. filters...... sorry to digress .
CX, air your dirty linen now !!!
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Old 8th Apr 2008, 07:15
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Fog chaos hits flights, shipping

Fog chaos hits flights, shipping Ng Kang-chung, Danny Mok and Agnes Lam
Updated on Apr 07, 2008 Dozens of angry Cathay Pacific passengers aboard a flight to Hong Kong from Taipei refused to get off the plane last night and demanded compensation from the airline after a day-long ordeal in which they were stranded for hours in Guangzhou.
The flight was diverted in heavy fog yesterday morning, when 12 other Hong Kong-bound flights were also diverted, local ferry services disrupted, and two cargo ships collided off the Po Toi Islands.
Cathay Pacific flight CX463, which left Taipei for Hong Kong at about 6.30am and was due to land at 8am, was forced to divert to Guangzhou's Baiyun airport due to heavy fog. The 188 passengers aboard the Airbus A330 did not return to Hong Kong until 7.15pm, with some transit passengers missing connecting flights.
Some passengers complained they had been left in the cabin for 10 hours and were only offered sandwiches, biscuits and bottled water. But others joked that they had been on a "direct flight" between Taipei and Guangzhou, before the "three-links" - direct trade, transport and communications between Taiwan and the mainland - had been officially introduced.
One Hong Kong passenger, businessman Ken Wong, said: "The crew's attitude was very bad. Messages were very confusing. First, they said it would be a two-hour wait. Later, they said the plane needed refuelling. And eventually they said the pilots were tired and needed to wait for Hong Kong to send another team to cover for them."

Mr Wong said many passengers had refused to get off the plane after it landed at Chek Lap Kok last night.
A Cathay Pacific spokeswoman said all 40 transit passengers who refused to get off the plane had done so at about 9pm and accepted accommodation arrangements.




The delay in Guangzhou was due to the need to send another crew to replace the one on board, which had worked longer than allowed. The airline said it was not responsible because the delay was due to bad weather. Every passenger affected was given three service vouchers worth a total of US$75 from the airline.




Meanwhile, the Hub Stella, a container carrier registered in the Marshall Islands, collided with a South Korean-registered cargo vessel, the World Dynasty, which was carrying chemicals, off the Po Toi Islands at 4.40am. Water poured into the Hub Stella's engine room through a hole after the accident, and containers on its deck were damaged. No injuries were reported among the ship's crew of about 20.

A government spokesman said the Hub Stella's destination was Hong Kong, but it was not known where the World Dynasty was going.
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Old 8th Apr 2008, 11:33
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I reckon when it happens again next week, Flight Despatch will nominate ZGGG as your alternate. Don’t be proactive, just go there and accept another rat's nest.

The more the pilots cover their incompetence of Flight Despatch the more nothing will change. If we all end up in ZGGG again, maybe FOP Despatch will be a bit more proactive in choosing our alternates and not give us one because “It is Legal”. How many times have we heard that?

But I suppose that is a bad attitude and not showing any goodwill. Off to the oubliette.

Like the ATC bloke said to me many years ago “ I have no sympathy for someone coming from TPE and declares a low fuel emergency”, the blokes coming from LAX cannot put more fuel on so will get priority over the flight coming from TPE. Think about it.

If in doubt, there is no doubt, just do it. Same with de-icing.
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Old 8th Apr 2008, 14:19
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alternates

You can carry any alternate you (the captain) feel you have to carry- just have to justify it! If wx vhhh is marginal/maybe dodgy then we are to carry rckh/rctp/rpll. This was out of the blue(I think) and so dispatch not to blame.
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