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The Demise of Hong Kong Airlines

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The Demise of Hong Kong Airlines

Old 25th Sep 2012, 11:55
  #1481 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Sunny Europe
Posts: 55
@Spanglish

Thank you for your post
I was supposed to join HKA, but unfortunately recruiting got frozen right after my interview.

By the way, I went for KA DEFO recruiting program and jumped ship. Didn't like "vibes", lets say...

Still waiting here
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Old 25th Sep 2012, 12:56
  #1482 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 17
Best of luck Madpilot, I can't comment on the negative experiences of a few disgruntled ex employees but I can say that I have seen none of that and is is not like that now.

I for one have yet to meet the unhappy few but I'm sure I will one day no doubt.

Happy ever after? Does that apply to any airline on this planet?
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Old 25th Sep 2012, 16:54
  #1483 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: home
Posts: 2
Spanglish, whatever you're smoking best stop before your next medical.

So you're denying the several emails sent out from management asking for "volunteers" to work on "projects"? You deny the facts of known FO's calling into the offices to ask senior management if they can "assist" anywhere?

Great CRM courses you say? So why is that entire section under threat of or being shut down pending investigation due the MANY complaints of inappropriate behavior, conduct and content?

What is the actual [flying] experience of the 330 Fleet Mngr? Is he the BEST person for the job in lieu of the many other highly experienced Capts at HKA or is he the best person with the best nationality that suits to do the job? At a reputable airline he'd be still an SO or at best a JFO with is "experience" yet at HKA he's a Fleet Mngr. Nationality is everything..... (Or as the deputy Tng Mngr is, being related to the DFO doesn't hurt either, eh? Little things like experience not required either for that job.....) The term "Singaporean Mafia" comes to mind, but no secret.

Seniority? HKA openly state that there is no seniority system but one based on a camouflaged and secretive "performance based" system that only upper management mainly from a small island nation design and are privy to. How did the 4 (reduced to 2 later) gain their Cmd progression on the 330? They skipped at least 50-60 guys based on any form of "seniority" let alone date of joining. What of the 737 drivers and their "seniority/date of joining" WELL higher than theirs could possibly be!!?? And golly gee..... I wonder who it was telling tales on their fellow pilots, reporting to the former Fleet Mngr and his same national cohorts, doing favours for the fleet managers & working in the office for free? Some pilots get to do one delivery flight in their entire career yet I understand one of these Cat D guys has done no less than 3 with the former Fleet Mngr. Like I said, what gets some guys marked "never to be promoted" at one airline gets them fast tracked to career progression at HKA.

As a 320 pilot you've never done a LGW flight & relieved the crew to find not a single correctly performed fuel check done (as per the FCOM or OM-A) or alternate met received & recorded. Or a short haul flight where the "Training Capt" goes through & records on the CFP the FMGC all the ETA's & Fuel Predictions prior to top of climb then puts it away never to be seen for the rest of the flight.....? Or a senior TRI not familiar with the latest 330 amendments and chastising pilots on outdated procedures?

All this is RAMPANT and more the rule as opposed to the exception.

Standards? So why has the [new] GMT fought tooth and nail with massive opposition by those who deny the bleeding obvious that our standards are so low and therefore the need for 3 monthly PC's and RC's instead of them being conducted bi-annually?

The "all powerful CAD checks" on logbooks!!?? So just how did that HKA pilot get through the system with a fake passport I wonder??? He was only caught through his own stupidity!

"A few disgruntled employees"?? Go talk to the 737 FO's with 4+ years with the company and see if they are "happy" with their treatment, let alone the VAST majority of HKA 330 pilots. If the 320 fleet is better then I'm happy for you - but happier still that I'm away from the rot that went on and still goes on I'm told by colleagues still there.

Those who refuse to look for the truth will never see it. Those who don't know what it is don't know what to look for. And those who rely on this defend their ignorance by denying it all. I suppose the earth is round only because you haven't fallen off it yet.
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Old 25th Sep 2012, 18:38
  #1484 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 55
Posts: 28
Algol mark 2

hahahahahahhahahahahah

It seems we have a new Algol, trying to defend why he work at that shithole.


good luck friend

keep dreaming you have a good job


Exxman


The BIG PICTURE.............. I Have It, You Don't.


XOP's............ The Only Way To Operate...........
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 00:36
  #1485 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 17
Well lets agree to disagree on this one.

Ignorance is bliss as they say.
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 01:28
  #1486 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: dowund
Posts: 91
Just can't understand why those still stay with HKA/E
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 10:50
  #1487 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Noo Yoik
Posts: 126
So you're denying the several emails sent out from management asking for "volunteers" to work on "projects"? You deny the facts of known FO's calling into the offices to ask senior management if they can "assist" anywhere?
What exactly is your problem with this?
In my European Flag Carrier they ask for volunteers all the time!
They also make quiet personal approaches to pilots with specific skills in areas they need in-house advice or assistance. Guys are constantly doing projects - they get paid too! I guess the guys in HKA get paid, or see a path to career progression (money isn't everyone's sole motivator). One such volunteer went on to become our CEO!
Is it just that you class this as 'brown-nosing' - 'cos it sounds like some form of begrudgery to me.

Great CRM courses you say? So why is that entire section under threat of or being shut down pending investigation due the MANY complaints of inappropriate behavior, conduct and content?
Evidence please? Or just innuendo?

What is the actual [flying] experience of the 330 Fleet Mngr? Is he the BEST person for the job in lieu of the many other highly experienced Capts at HKA or is he the best person with the best nationality that suits to do the job? At a reputable airline he'd be still an SO or at best a JFO with is "experience" yet at HKA he's a Fleet Mngr. Nationality is everything..... (Or as the deputy Tng Mngr is, being related to the DFO doesn't hurt either, eh? Little things like experience not required either for that job.....) The term "Singaporean Mafia" comes to mind, but no secret.
This is a good one.
Since becoming a SWIRE (Brit) company in 1948, Cathay took on a distinctly Brit flavour. Throughout the 70's and 80's the worldwide pilot population considered it to be ' run by the Brits', and that included Flight Ops. The top men were always - Brits.
Then in 1989 the ANSSETT debacle occurred and hundreds of desperate Aussies were thrown on the world market (debasing it for the rest of us - its the point where our profession started to sink). Many of those Aussies ended up in CX, and brought their mates on board later. They formed a large clique in the company and by the mid 90's had edged the Brits out. It then became an ' Aussie Airline' (God help us) and remains so to this day. That may change soon though since CX are now looking further afield for new pilots I believe. The next clique will probably displace the Aussies in the next 10 years. Cliques exist in every 'expat airline', and even in the flag carriers they have the 'ex-Mil pilot cliques' and the 'Cadet cliques' - (subdivided by year). C'est la vie. Live with it.

Seniority? HKA openly state that there is no seniority system but one based on a camouflaged and secretive "performance based" system that only upper management mainly from a small island nation design and are privy to. How did the 4 (reduced to 2 later) gain their Cmd progression on the 330? They skipped at least 50-60 guys based on any form of "seniority" let alone date of joining. What of the 737 drivers and their "seniority/date of joining" WELL higher than theirs could possibly be!!?? And golly gee..... I wonder who it was telling tales on their fellow pilots, reporting to the former Fleet Mngr and his same national cohorts, doing favours for the fleet managers & working in the office for free? Some pilots get to do one delivery flight in their entire career yet I understand one of these Cat D guys has done no less than 3 with the former Fleet Mngr. Like I said, what gets some guys marked "never to be promoted" at one airline gets them fast tracked to career progression at HKA.
It's a non-unionised airline.
For now.

As a 320 pilot you've never done a LGW flight & relieved the crew to find not a single correctly performed fuel check done (as per the FCOM or OM-A) or alternate met received & recorded. Or a short haul flight where the "Training Capt" goes through & records on the CFP the FMGC all the ETA's & Fuel Predictions prior to top of climb then puts it away never to be seen for the rest of the flight.....? Or a senior TRI not familiar with the latest 330 amendments and chastising pilots on outdated procedures?
More gossip....
Evidence please....

All this is RAMPANT and more the rule as opposed to the exception.
In your head.

Standards? So why has the [new] GMT fought tooth and nail with massive opposition by those who deny the bleeding obvious that our standards are so low and therefore the need for 3 monthly PC's and RC's instead of them being conducted bi-annually?
Hmm...Freudian slip there?
Who's standards are you referring to, you unhappy little mole you.

The "all powerful CAD checks" on logbooks!!?? So just how did that HKA pilot get through the system with a fake passport I wonder??? He was only caught through his own stupidity!
Yeah I heard about this one. I laughed my ass off.
but I guess its the Immigration Tower guys you should call on this one. Checking passports ain't CAD work.

"A few disgruntled employees"?? Go talk to the 737 FO's with 4+ years with the company and see if they are "happy" with their treatment, let alone the VAST majority of HKA 330 pilots. If the 320 fleet is better then I'm happy for you - but happier still that I'm away from the rot that went on and still goes on I'm told by colleagues still there.
No you're not. You said 'OUR'.

Those who refuse to look for the truth will never see it. Those who don't know what it is don't know what to look for. And those who rely on this defend their ignorance by denying it all. I suppose the earth is round only because you haven't fallen off it yet.
No. It's a load of sour grapes and unfounded allegation, from someone who has tripped up in their lie.
Just wait until Jetstar arrive - and you see some competition from a LoCo.
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 13:02
  #1488 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Noo Yoik
Posts: 126
Just can't understand why those still stay with HKA/E
I'll take a stab at it for you then, shall I?

Could it possibly be because there are no decent jobs in:

The UK
France
Spain
Germany
Australia
The Philipines
etc

...and because not everyone wants to work in:

The ME
Korea
China (Mainland)
Taiwan
Africa
Afghanistan
India
or for a LoCo
etc

Seems bleedin simple to me.
But then I don't live in a cossetted bubble.
Some of you guys need to get out and see the world a bit. Might stretch your imaginations somewhat.

Last edited by Meccano; 26th Sep 2012 at 13:04.
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 13:09
  #1489 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Noo Yoik
Posts: 126
hahahahahahhahahahahah

It seems we have a new Algol, trying to defend why he work at that shithole.


good luck friend

keep dreaming you have a good job


Exxman


The BIG PICTURE.............. I Have It, You Don't.


XOP's............ The Only Way To Operate...........
But - I don't work there! Yet!

I am however planning to - sooner the better.
My buddies love it, and we're planning to form a clique and take over -30 minutes after I arrive.

CXOPs I think you'd call that?
Did I spell it right for you there?

You'll be out. Your English sucks.

Last edited by Meccano; 26th Sep 2012 at 13:14.
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Old 26th Sep 2012, 21:32
  #1490 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Sunny Europe
Posts: 55
well... you guys are pros when it comes about arguing and such...
As far as I'm concerned, just know that KA's having a hard time recruiting DEFOs, while HKA's hasn't... make what conclusions you want out of it...
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Old 27th Sep 2012, 01:15
  #1491 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Poland
Age: 63
Posts: 62
The hard core truth is that the AOC is temporarily suspended by CAD.
If they dont lift their standards then I guess its curtains.??
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Old 27th Sep 2012, 01:52
  #1492 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Noo Yoik
Posts: 126
Utter Bollox.

Hong Kong International Airport - Real Time Flight Information - Passenger Departure

Last edited by Meccano; 27th Sep 2012 at 01:58.
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Old 27th Sep 2012, 03:12
  #1493 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: HK
Posts: 512
MECCANO

The new oracle has arrived. Knows everything about everything, but not here yet!!!
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Old 27th Sep 2012, 15:20
  #1494 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Noo Yoik
Posts: 126
Yeah - I do the research.
On PPRuNe.
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 09:01
  #1495 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Asia
Posts: 382
Meccano
Since becoming a SWIRE (Brit) company in 1948, Cathay took on a distinctly Brit flavour. Throughout the 70's and 80's the worldwide pilot population considered it to be ' run by the Brits', and that included Flight Ops. The top men were always - Brits.
Utter rubbish. Your straw poll of what the worldwide population considered does not change the facts.


Then in 1989 the ANSSETT debacle occurred and hundreds of desperate Aussies were thrown on the world market (debasing it for the rest of us - its the point where our profession started to sink). Many of those Aussies ended up in CX, and brought their mates on board later. They formed a large clique in the company and by the mid 90's had edged the Brits out. It then became an ' Aussie Airline' (God help us) and remains so to this day. That may change soon though since CX are now looking further afield for new pilots I believe. The next clique will probably displace the Aussies in the next 10 years. Cliques exist in every 'expat airline', and even in the flag carriers they have the 'ex-Mil pilot cliques' and the 'Cadet cliques' - (subdivided by year). C'est la vie. Live with it.
Utter rubbish again.
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 10:27
  #1496 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Poland
Age: 63
Posts: 62
The Brits were the first to produce and certify Jet commercial Aircraft
The Brits were the first to do Aircraft operations at sea
The Brits were the first to certify and use Auto-Land
The Brits were the first to pioneer world wide weather forecasting
The Brits were the first to do in flight refueling
The prime Meridian goes threw the Royal Naval College at Greenwich.
You can all go on by comparing Boeing to Airbus but nothing comes close to Concorde
I think having Brit Management is a safer bet towards professionalism .
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 10:35
  #1497 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Noo Yoik
Posts: 126
Utter rubbish. Your straw poll of what the worldwide population considered does not change the facts.
What 'facts' are you talking about?
It was a Brit owned company, managed by Brits, with loads of ex-Mil/Retired BA Brits flying for them. That's a fact.

Until....

Then in 1989 the ANSSETT debacle occurred and hundreds of desperate Aussies were thrown on the world market (debasing it for the rest of us - its the point where our profession started to sink). Many of those Aussies ended up in CX, and brought their mates on board later. They formed a large clique in the company and by the mid 90's had edged the Brits out. It then became an ' Aussie Airline' (God help us) and remains so to this day.
As I understand it, there were around 1,500 Aussie pilots thrown out of work in that dispute. Or to be more accurate - they comitted hari-kiri en masse.
I never met an Aussie pilot outside Oz before that. Suddenly the buggers were everywhere, and acting like they owned every available job on the market. I remember one particular bunch at another SE Asian airline where myself and my 'clique' worked for a while telling us we should f**k off home and stop taking Australians jobs, haha!

They took over CX/KA pretty much in the aftermath of the APAC mess.

By the way, my home company was unionised and we supported the APAC cause. But we were all gobsmacked when we heard what they did. Lots of valuable lessons learned from that one - like, don't put your own head on a chopping block.

Anyhow, like I said, the rot set in after that for pilot T's&C's, worldwide, because there just wasn't the work for them all. Supply and Demand.
Thanks for that lads.
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 10:37
  #1498 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Noo Yoik
Posts: 126
I think having Brit Management is a safer bet towards professionalism .
I'd agree!
Better than Aussies screwing each other and everyone else, just cos they can.
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 11:33
  #1499 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hong Kong
Age: 55
Posts: 28
Meccano, You Win......

Wow Mecanno.

It did not take too many posts for you to win the prize of the "Dumbest of Dumb Yoinks" on the site
HKA cannot wait for you to arrive. they love guys like you. guys who clearly have no idea about what has happened, is happening and will happen ever.
HKA needs you, They employ the dumbest of the dumb so that you will be too stupid to see how bad it really is, you when then get all you stupid "buddies" to come over and start praising the company before they even arrive.
Dont believe me?, I get to see them all the time walking in an out of the office.
Makes me laugh every time.

You really are stupid man. You will fit right in.


Exxman



The BIG PICTURE.............. I Have It, You Don't.

XOP's............ The Only Way To Operate...........
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Old 28th Sep 2012, 13:53
  #1500 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Asia
Posts: 382
Meccano

Appropriate name as my set always used to have a screw loose.

Going back to the early days, CX always had a majority of Australian pilots. Most of the early DFO's were Australians. It wasn't until the late 60's and early 70's that Brits turned up en masse from the RAF and RN plus some from BEA, Brittania and Court Line. The Australian majority in flight ops was not overtaken until the late 70's. These days it is a pretty even spread between Brits, Australians, Canadians, Kiwis, HK belongers and 'the rest', which includes yarpies, Germans, Danes...and one great Zimbabwean!

After the 89 lockout in Australia, a very few joined CX but the majority went to SQ, Europe, GA or left the industry. From memory the joiners would not have made a cricket team. And for your files, many of the strike breakers that turned up in Australia came from the United States...the connection being America West and Ansett/News cross ownership.

You may well try and blame Australians for degrading the T&C's of pilots around the world but the US domestic feeders seem to have managed to trump everyone...not to mention a/c technology which has proven that a chimp can fly an A330 or a 777 until you reach coffin corner with frozen pitot tubes.
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