Goodbye FACA!
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"Having said that, if the AOA’s position has changed, we are not against talking about further integration but we should do just that – sit down and talk about it - rather than fight it out in the courts. I have proposed talks early in the New Year and I hope that the offer will be taken up. I’ll keep you posted."
Got a kick out of this. Sounds a bit like they are running scared. I hope the union comes back and tells them we can meet THIS WEEK, other wise it will resort to the courts.
I'm sick of this "we'll get to that later" attitude. NOW, NOW, NOW!!!
Got a kick out of this. Sounds a bit like they are running scared. I hope the union comes back and tells them we can meet THIS WEEK, other wise it will resort to the courts.
I'm sick of this "we'll get to that later" attitude. NOW, NOW, NOW!!!
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But ST will say, sure how about a converstation maybe in may when NR and i can discuss it over a round of golf.
Isnt it inetersting how they want to discuss this after they have impossed the condition not before. This will work to their advantage. Its far more benificial to ask forgiviness than permission. Not that CX ever appologise for anything.
Isnt it inetersting how they want to discuss this after they have impossed the condition not before. This will work to their advantage. Its far more benificial to ask forgiviness than permission. Not that CX ever appologise for anything.
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FACA expires...but they're adding a new policy that is very much the same in the end into the cos instead! Surely we must have a strong position with the courts. The AOA's position is sensible and I hope this will be handled without delay. Talks and negociations only work if both sides are ready to compromise...and so far it has been a one way street and a failure. I think it's only fair to say that it's reasonable and wise to seek justice through the courts when your employer is abusing his position of power.
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We are worrting needlessly about the loss of the FCA with the demise of ASL. The NTC from the GMA stated quite clearly that the company's intention was to use dedicated freighter crew to fly the freighter......just as soon as they have enough crew. Don't concern yourself that 64 744 FOs have resigned this year. The company will make up the losses when they have worked out how to persuade pilots that the CX package, which currently falls below that of QF, United, BA, EK and Virgin, makes up in job satisfaction what it loses in cash. After all, which of us are so venal that we work only for the money.
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No FACA = 'Interesting' 744 Roster
Anyone who is on the 744 knows without a shadow of a doubt that come next year, with the inclusion of the freighter element, the roster will become, euphemistically speaking, 'interesting'! And that is not even the worst element of what the Company's interpretation of the demise of FACA will mean to all current Cathay aircrew.
Here's how it happened:
Here's how it happened:
- AOA President and senior AOA GC members 'negotiate' CoS07 over a period of months, covering many issues including pay;
- the 'agreement' as presented to the AOA GC, is quite rightly rejected by the GC, and sent back to the Company whereupon the Company withdraw it;
- AOA President, against the wishes of the GC, rolls over, takes no action and thus allows CoS08 to be imposed by the Company;
- as a consequence, FACA ceases to be valid;
- the Company applies its own interpretation as to how the demise of FACA is to be implemented;
- AOA President, having already irredeemably misrepresented the membership to this point, seems to wake up and sends threatening letter to Company warning of 'legal action;
Last edited by BScaler; 18th Dec 2007 at 12:48.
BScaler,
I seriously think you are losing the plot.
In the past you always wrote logically argued points of view which were always of interest and, more to the point, useful.
Your last post is nothing more than a rant which points to a personal dislike rather than a rational argument.
Calm down and have a Merry Christmas
I seriously think you are losing the plot.
In the past you always wrote logically argued points of view which were always of interest and, more to the point, useful.
Your last post is nothing more than a rant which points to a personal dislike rather than a rational argument.
Calm down and have a Merry Christmas
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BTW,A joker is only playable if you take a base.
Not much of a reality if you ask me.
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B scaler, I have a problem with 2 lines in your post -
"as a consequence, FACA ceases to be valid;"
"AOA President, having already irredeemably misrepresented the membership to this point, seems to wake up"
ST has been working on the legal side for quite a while. I don't know that any AOA action would have stopped them implementing it.
Bit of history for the more recently employed.
The FACA came in as some of us CX mainliners said it would be a problem for us to fly with ASL freighter pilots. It would have been a CRM issue. Apparently by letting them join CX on 1/1/08 in rank, base, position and pay, our angst has gone away. Suddenly 1500 pilots who had their upgrades delayed don't mind anymore.
The ones who are and should be cheesed off are the guys that took the one and only offer to transfer in 1/1/00 - they have had to wait 9 years to be senior enough to get their commands whilst they watch the guys that back doored them get back into CX into senior positions.
That was the original intent...however, as the lawyers like to say, 'custom and practice' has changed the purpose of the FACA to a prevention of degradation to lifestyle. Everyone knows that whilst freighter flying is "interesting", to quote RH, it is disruptive to your lifestyle. They have more roster disruptions and more company generous rostering rules.
I attended a company paid for course where everything I learnt was the antithesis of how cathay manages people. Fear is their most powerful and only weapon. I would ask you all, were you happy before CX? Will you be happy after CX? So why act in fear now? Just accept that this is a chapter in your life and the way they are acting it seems like the chapter is being shortened.
A life lived in fear is only half lived...
"as a consequence, FACA ceases to be valid;"
"AOA President, having already irredeemably misrepresented the membership to this point, seems to wake up"
ST has been working on the legal side for quite a while. I don't know that any AOA action would have stopped them implementing it.
Bit of history for the more recently employed.
The FACA came in as some of us CX mainliners said it would be a problem for us to fly with ASL freighter pilots. It would have been a CRM issue. Apparently by letting them join CX on 1/1/08 in rank, base, position and pay, our angst has gone away. Suddenly 1500 pilots who had their upgrades delayed don't mind anymore.
The ones who are and should be cheesed off are the guys that took the one and only offer to transfer in 1/1/00 - they have had to wait 9 years to be senior enough to get their commands whilst they watch the guys that back doored them get back into CX into senior positions.
That was the original intent...however, as the lawyers like to say, 'custom and practice' has changed the purpose of the FACA to a prevention of degradation to lifestyle. Everyone knows that whilst freighter flying is "interesting", to quote RH, it is disruptive to your lifestyle. They have more roster disruptions and more company generous rostering rules.
I attended a company paid for course where everything I learnt was the antithesis of how cathay manages people. Fear is their most powerful and only weapon. I would ask you all, were you happy before CX? Will you be happy after CX? So why act in fear now? Just accept that this is a chapter in your life and the way they are acting it seems like the chapter is being shortened.
A life lived in fear is only half lived...
Last edited by Numero Crunchero; 20th Dec 2007 at 01:51. Reason: because english is not my first language
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NC
NC, I respect your opinion, perhaps I should expand on my views - we may have to agree to differ on this one.
What appears to have got the Company's attention on the Dragon front, was two years of contract compliance plus a raft of resignations.
In lieu of ST's beavering away on the legal front and spending the association's money in this area, perhaps he should ask the membership what measures they would be prepared to adopt to assert their claim to fairer treatment. Contract compliance, for instance, could hardly be seen as industrial action since it is simply working to an agreed contract. Anything over and above this could be seen by some to be delivering favours to the Company.
If the membership were in fact prepared to go down the road of contract compliance, perhaps this would cause the Company to rethink some of the measures that they have unilaterally imposed to date. With close to 100 letters being sent out per month thanking officers for working on G-Days, (and assuming contract compliance was taken up by the majority af Cathay aircrew), one would think that this would put some pressure on the Company - without having to spend even one cent on lawyers fees. This would go against ST's policy to attempt to attain 'modern industrial relations', but I would say that his approach in this regard has patently failed us already.
Despite ST working ever so hard, I do believe he is doing so from completely the wrong perspective, and not taking most junior officer's situations into account in the direction he is taking. The Company has rolled over the AOA in imposing CoS08, and now it is rolling over the AOA yet again in imposing its own interpretation of the demise of FACA.
The Company is doing this because, based upon ST's past (in)actions, despite concerns from most junior officers in the Company, and despite the world-wide pilot shortage, it believes it can.
I therefore stand by my comment.
ST has been working on the legal side for quite a while. I don't know that any AOA action would have stopped them implementing it.
In lieu of ST's beavering away on the legal front and spending the association's money in this area, perhaps he should ask the membership what measures they would be prepared to adopt to assert their claim to fairer treatment. Contract compliance, for instance, could hardly be seen as industrial action since it is simply working to an agreed contract. Anything over and above this could be seen by some to be delivering favours to the Company.
If the membership were in fact prepared to go down the road of contract compliance, perhaps this would cause the Company to rethink some of the measures that they have unilaterally imposed to date. With close to 100 letters being sent out per month thanking officers for working on G-Days, (and assuming contract compliance was taken up by the majority af Cathay aircrew), one would think that this would put some pressure on the Company - without having to spend even one cent on lawyers fees. This would go against ST's policy to attempt to attain 'modern industrial relations', but I would say that his approach in this regard has patently failed us already.
Despite ST working ever so hard, I do believe he is doing so from completely the wrong perspective, and not taking most junior officer's situations into account in the direction he is taking. The Company has rolled over the AOA in imposing CoS08, and now it is rolling over the AOA yet again in imposing its own interpretation of the demise of FACA.
The Company is doing this because, based upon ST's past (in)actions, despite concerns from most junior officers in the Company, and despite the world-wide pilot shortage, it believes it can.
I therefore stand by my comment.
