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C.O.S 08 - You're kidding me

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C.O.S 08 - You're kidding me

Old 9th Aug 2007, 08:24
  #1 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Aug 2002
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C.O.S 08 - You're kidding me

I cannot believe that the company has put this on the table. It is an insult at best. NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO
Hydrolix is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2007, 08:30
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Join Date: Jun 1999
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You must be f kidding me?
Not even close Nick.
I want at least 15% NOW, not 3% + 2% in six months time.
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Old 9th Aug 2007, 08:51
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: On the Mekong
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Its a joke of deal , what more would you expect .

The company is on the verge of making the biggest profit in the company's history , and they put up such a insulting deal as this .
I think some guys on the 3rd floor have really underestimated the level of morale and negativity in the company .

They will need a retirement age of 85 , to keep the pilot numbers up . because a lot of guys will walk , Emirates you will not have a recruitment problem anymore

I thought the Union could have organized a better deal than the 6% , ( its not 11.5 % ) . you can polish a turd as much as you want its still a turd ( not a diamond that they want you do think )
greencandreaming is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2007, 08:52
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Muppet Town - HK
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Angry

Having just read the proposal outlined to us I am now convinced more than ever there is no one truly representing B-scale officers at the AOA. That proposal is just a slap in the face, and if that is the best our supposed negotiating team can come up with...then any other offer or agreement won't result in much of an improvement on this proposal.

Firstly, for those of us approaching command (within the next 1-2 years) a delay of 3-4 years is likely and with no bypass pay! Unified pay results in a decrease at year 6 from current levels!
The actual pay increase for a HKG officer is 11.5% over 2 years...are you for real? That is a joke! That does not account for exchange rates, cost of living, education, inflation,and tax rate increases. But should not have expected anything else when we were told by the AOA..."looks like we have a competitive package!"

To put it simply...the Company gets a lot...A-scalers get a lot...B-scalers get a slap in the face!

What a disappointment. I can only feel empathy/sympathy for the F/Os on the negotiating team...poor buggers must have been screaming inside...probably outside to!
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Old 9th Aug 2007, 09:20
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Join Date: Nov 1999
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"To put it simply...the Company gets a lot...A-scalers get a lot..."
Oh, really?
How do A scalers get anything, other than the same HDP rise everone gets, and NO pay rise?!
I bet you are one of these guys that wants to get rid of A scales by bringing them down to B scales, rather than bringing B scale up to A... (in case you hadn't noticed, once you are "A scale" then you will suffer the same pay drop that the original A scalers did)
Age 65 is here for you now, whether it comes via this agreement or by legislation in two years time..
That said, I really don't want to fly the freighter on freighter RPs, and I REALLY don't want to get checked by a junior ASL check captain.
This is a joke, and I realise that the GC has not yet commited to recommending this - or otherwise - but if this is the best the negotiating people could do, then I am certainly voting a big, fat NO.
jed_thrust is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2007, 09:35
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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What tha!!

Yeah lets not all start dragging A scales down.
Interesting that the GC have not put this to us directly as an offer, maybe , just maybe they have thrown the bait out!!!
Well GC if you are reading this...NO NO NO No!!!!!!!
By the way, anything about flying freighters for pax crew?? I didnt see it?? Unified salary but does that mean unified flying???
Fenwicksgirl is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2007, 09:46
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Please do not be mislead by bypass pay. This just ties you to the company for without command hrs. should you be retrenched or "let go" your job prospects are limited unless you like to start at the bottom of the pile again. Also nothing in the package to address woeful staff travel. As for business class FOC for the FO's on your command - I guess another 3-4 yrs huh?
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Old 9th Aug 2007, 09:55
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Markontop,


FACT: Every FO and SO needs to realize that our time to command has just been extended by 3 or more years.


Whether this is because this proposal (and it is nothing more than that, at the moment) gets voted in, or because the law changes: its going to happen, and it WILL happen soon enough to affect us.


We need to get used to it, and to make alternative plans if necessary. Its a bit like some of the A scalers being delayed a few years when ASL was thought up.


My suggestion is to vote no and delay the inevitable... who knows, maybe I am mistaken on how long it takes for anti-discrimination laws to be brought in, in HKG.
jed_thrust is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2007, 10:06
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CSA
 
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Angry Beg to Differ

I flew a freighter flight the other day, the captain was an extendee. I'm assuming he was about a year 10 CN, on a NY base. By my calculations on todays exchange rate, this package represents a %46 pay increase for him. So I would say he would be pretty happy with that.

However, I agree this is not about "A" scale bashing. We should be about getting every CX pilot as much as possible. I do however question the thinking of the AOA. How can they recommend a deal like this for our A scalers and not even think to address the B scale FO increments that stop at SFO 6 when they know they are guaranteeing most of us a lot longer than that on FO pay scales.

If the money is there to extend A scales through to 65, the money is there to remunerate B scales as well.
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Old 9th Aug 2007, 10:16
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Could not agree more , if there is enough money to extend A scale for another 10 years there is certainly enough money to give B scale a fair pay increase ,

I am not having a go at A scale , I am having a go at the Company and GC

But knowing the people we work for they only care about themselves , but there is a thing called Karma , I know they will get whats coming to them . I just hope it long and painful .
greencandreaming is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2007, 10:20
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And I bet this CN was not an AOA member, and thus cannot vote for his pay rise!! I love it when a plan comes together!


Genuine question: why are you helping the company in a time of increasing pilot shortages by volunteering to fly cargo?
jed_thrust is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2007, 10:24
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I took a temp base on the freighter to get a break from commuting, didn't really think of it in terms of helping the company out but I see your point.
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Old 9th Aug 2007, 10:44
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If the GC reject this we'll never know what the majority of the membership think. I would like the GC to recommend it so everyone gets the opportunity to vote. Then, when its rejected everyone knows exactly where they stand.

If we don't all get a vote we'll only ever know what the loudmouths think.
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Old 9th Aug 2007, 10:50
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Busy B,


Will you listen to the GC's recomendation, or vote according to your feelings?


What if the GC puts this up without a positive recomendation, one or the other? (I'm not sure they can withdraw this now that it is published by the company).
jed_thrust is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2007, 10:57
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I'll vote according to my feelings and the facts. I'd have to disregard the AOA's recommendation as it might be required to enable a vote.
BusyB is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2007, 11:08
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I donít see any reasons why any officers below CN would vote for that deal! Time to command will increase by 7-8 years in return for a relatively small pay rise over two years! Unless youíre not waiting on an upgrade, that deal actually decreases the total remuneration that you will get over your whole career with CX when taking into consideration the potentially huge delay in commands!

It also if you're on a canadian base. Why such a difference in increases between the bases?
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Old 9th Aug 2007, 11:13
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I expect the vote would be split exactly along scale lines. There is nothing in this deal for anyone but the A scalers. I wouldn't blame the A scalers for going for the deal, another 10 years on A scales versus being shown the door or a freighter is not bad for someone wanting to work past 55. I'm sure no A scaler would expect the rest to go for it though.
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Old 9th Aug 2007, 11:14
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Unified Salaries!!??

So its called Unified salaries when you mould Freighter pay with B-scale, but where is the unification with A-scale?? Aagghhh that old chestnut!!
Also saw the bit where they say, freighter flying will no longer be voluntary.......boy where do i sign??!!
Problem?? Given that there seems to be a choice (Cos08 Vs Cos99), is anyone taking bets the company, once this crap is voted against, will the company by-pass the union and make it a general offer. Afterall, you dont have to take it and the company will figure that there will be enough baffoons out there willing to sign on the dotted line...

By the way, there aint no deal if the GC don't recommend it (positively)!!
Fenwicksgirl is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2007, 11:14
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Bobrun,
I really don't think your vote will make any difference to time to command. All that the vote is really about is whether we're getting a big enough payrise!
BusyB is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2007, 11:16
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: "HARD" TO TELL.....
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....I've been wanting to take my kids to the circus...but now I just let them read your threads on PPRuNe...

Congrats to the AOA..yet another brilliant deal that you "negotiated" with the rest of your cronies on the 3rd floor...

The mismanagement - keep posting mate,you're the biggest clown of them all!!
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