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3 years on the freighter. i get a letter saying i'm eligible for pax fleet. i bid in april. i wait and wait and wait. no answer. i find out that about 50 SO's have been "inserted" ahead of me and I will not be eligible to go to PAX fleet for another year.
Guess I should be glad I have a job...
Guess I should be glad I have a job...
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The most junior FO on the seniority list has been in Cathay 3yrs and 10mths. Last week he was an SO.
There are 70 SOs with more than 3yrs in the company.
Whats your point? No ones been "inserted" anywhere.
These guys/girls have always been senior to you, even when they are wearing 1 stripe.
Your arrogance is astounding.
Apart from displaying your own ignorance, youve simply reinforced the, often unfair, image that the US Freighter crews have!
Youre happy to take Cathays $$$ but have made no effort into learning the rules. Youve assumed your transfer is automatic. Its not! Thats not Cathays fault....its yours.
There are 70 SOs with more than 3yrs in the company.
Whats your point? No ones been "inserted" anywhere.
These guys/girls have always been senior to you, even when they are wearing 1 stripe.
Your arrogance is astounding.
Apart from displaying your own ignorance, youve simply reinforced the, often unfair, image that the US Freighter crews have!
Youre happy to take Cathays $$$ but have made no effort into learning the rules. Youve assumed your transfer is automatic. Its not! Thats not Cathays fault....its yours.
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Joser1965,
Are you saying that 50 SOs who are junior to you have been put ahead of you on the seniority list? If thats the case (and its a very serious case I'm sure you'll agree) then I assume you will take it up with the company, and not just post it here as a story. Have you done so?
Jumbonomore,
1. I would like to know why you're asking if they're locals. Does it make any difference?
2. I think we can safely assume that they cannot all be locals as there have never been such a large batch of cadets graduating and joining the company all at the same time.
Are you saying that 50 SOs who are junior to you have been put ahead of you on the seniority list? If thats the case (and its a very serious case I'm sure you'll agree) then I assume you will take it up with the company, and not just post it here as a story. Have you done so?
Jumbonomore,
1. I would like to know why you're asking if they're locals. Does it make any difference?
2. I think we can safely assume that they cannot all be locals as there have never been such a large batch of cadets graduating and joining the company all at the same time.
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Would you care for a little cheese with that whine?
joser, that sure appears to be alot of waiting on your behalf.....
I mean youve just completed the "minimum" time to be elegible to be transfered to the pax fleet and your already whining that your progression isn't happening quickly enough. Meanwhile, the SO's, who have been sitting in a non-flying position are finally making it to a window seat after nearly 4 years. Hopefully every single one stripe SO with more seniority upgrades prior to you, for it SHOULD only be an 18 month stint as a relief officer.
I mean youve just completed the "minimum" time to be elegible to be transfered to the pax fleet and your already whining that your progression isn't happening quickly enough. Meanwhile, the SO's, who have been sitting in a non-flying position are finally making it to a window seat after nearly 4 years. Hopefully every single one stripe SO with more seniority upgrades prior to you, for it SHOULD only be an 18 month stint as a relief officer.
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Originally Posted by petitfromage
The most junior FO on the seniority list has been in Cathay 3yrs and 10mths. Last week he was an SO.
There are 70 SOs with more than 3yrs in the company.
Whats your point? No ones been "inserted" anywhere.
These guys/girls have always been senior to you, even when they are wearing 1 stripe.
Your arrogance is astounding.
Apart from displaying your own ignorance, youve simply reinforced the, often unfair, image that the US Freighter crews have!
Youre happy to take Cathays $$$ but have made no effort into learning the rules. Youve assumed your transfer is automatic. Its not! Thats not Cathays fault....its yours.
There are 70 SOs with more than 3yrs in the company.
Whats your point? No ones been "inserted" anywhere.
These guys/girls have always been senior to you, even when they are wearing 1 stripe.
Your arrogance is astounding.
Apart from displaying your own ignorance, youve simply reinforced the, often unfair, image that the US Freighter crews have!
Youre happy to take Cathays $$$ but have made no effort into learning the rules. Youve assumed your transfer is automatic. Its not! Thats not Cathays fault....its yours.
Many DEFO's come from Military backgrounds and are not familiar with the seniority system. Many were misled at recruitment about there being a position available after 3 years and didn't understand that a S/O hired 1 day earlier was senior. But in typical fashion you explained it to him. Good work!
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my point is...
i have no problem with the so's..i know about seniority, been with the airlines for 13 years.
i was sent a letter asking my intentions after 3 yrs on the freighter, i put in my request. what i can't understand is why these s/o's have not yet been accessed and why we were pretty much assured that after 3 years when we joined that either we could bid a base or go to hkg. i would gladly do either.
so that is that...goodbye and goodluck
i was sent a letter asking my intentions after 3 yrs on the freighter, i put in my request. what i can't understand is why these s/o's have not yet been accessed and why we were pretty much assured that after 3 years when we joined that either we could bid a base or go to hkg. i would gladly do either.
so that is that...goodbye and goodluck
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Unfortunately, it's all in the fine print which CX neglects to inform you of. Another frustrating dealing with CX management that you will add to the list as your time in CX grows...good luck!
As for the S/O's, you will see first hand how a 2000 hour ace can spoil it for the many good S/O's with thier big heads and smart mouths. Luckily like I said, it's only a few.
As for the S/O's, you will see first hand how a 2000 hour ace can spoil it for the many good S/O's with thier big heads and smart mouths. Luckily like I said, it's only a few.
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Originally Posted by cpdude
Many DEFO's come from Military backgrounds and are not familiar with the seniority system.
Oh I see...
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Originally Posted by Howard Hughes
What if two people join the military one day apart, both rise to the rank of Flying Officer (F/O for convenience), who out ranks who?
Oh I see...
Oh I see...
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Well Joser has 73 Second Officers more senior to him. He might have to just sit back in NYC and relax for a while. Although according to the current feeling on PPRUNE most of the SO's are next to worthless, so perhaps the wait wont be that long after all. Or perhaps he should try his luck with a US carrier!
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Originally Posted by cpdude
Neither, both Military Officers in your example are of the same rank!
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Joser1965,
Try bidding for a pax fleet base that is currently open. ie LAX, SFO. See Crew Direct for details. The bases are awarded by seniority of those that apply. S/O's that have not yet been assesed cat"A" are not be eligible to bid for the base. Once awarded the base there should be no excuse on the company's part. If for some reason you really want to live in H.K. you'll just have to wait your turn. I don't blame you for wanting off the freighter asap. Good Luck
Try bidding for a pax fleet base that is currently open. ie LAX, SFO. See Crew Direct for details. The bases are awarded by seniority of those that apply. S/O's that have not yet been assesed cat"A" are not be eligible to bid for the base. Once awarded the base there should be no excuse on the company's part. If for some reason you really want to live in H.K. you'll just have to wait your turn. I don't blame you for wanting off the freighter asap. Good Luck
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Futher a long this Q/A
Assuming we all understand seniority is rule 1 for bases... I am assuming the start of thread was frustration venting.
What about the scenario where the F/O elects to come to HKG (not a Base) to facilitate getting on 744PAX fleet ASAP. (pay /lifestyle...) and then subsequently bids onto a base as seniority allows.
Is the above restricted in terms of seniority? ... If so I cant find it in basing agreement.
If not is there any time restrictions on when he / she can take a base (having never been in HKG previously)?
8. ELIGIBILITY...
f. In the case of an Officer who solely operates Freighter aircraft, be within six (6) months of the date on which the Officer completes his/her Freighter Aircraft commitment, or have completed that commitment. Additionally, all eligible Officers senior to that Officer must have been assessed for promotion to the Rankin which the Base Vacancy for which that Officer is bidding exist.
The above excerpt is a confusing to the point that it begs the question... If the company has not assessed the senior 2nd O's ... why or How does that slow the career path for the 744F F/O wanting to bid a base or take a position in HKG.
Ergo... by simply not assessing ... they (IMHO) are not living up to the intent of the agreement. This may or may not be the case ... IE they may be In the process of doing just that and it could simply be a situation of neglect or lack of Communication...
What about the scenario where the F/O elects to come to HKG (not a Base) to facilitate getting on 744PAX fleet ASAP. (pay /lifestyle...) and then subsequently bids onto a base as seniority allows.
Is the above restricted in terms of seniority? ... If so I cant find it in basing agreement.
If not is there any time restrictions on when he / she can take a base (having never been in HKG previously)?
8. ELIGIBILITY...
f. In the case of an Officer who solely operates Freighter aircraft, be within six (6) months of the date on which the Officer completes his/her Freighter Aircraft commitment, or have completed that commitment. Additionally, all eligible Officers senior to that Officer must have been assessed for promotion to the Rankin which the Base Vacancy for which that Officer is bidding exist.
The above excerpt is a confusing to the point that it begs the question... If the company has not assessed the senior 2nd O's ... why or How does that slow the career path for the 744F F/O wanting to bid a base or take a position in HKG.
Ergo... by simply not assessing ... they (IMHO) are not living up to the intent of the agreement. This may or may not be the case ... IE they may be In the process of doing just that and it could simply be a situation of neglect or lack of Communication...
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You can be held on the freighter fleet. It seems to be at the company's discretion. In many past cases this was up to one year. However you do get the by pass pay provided an officer junior to you has been given a course on the PAX fleet. The bypass pay might make you the highest paid in the cockpit ! As someone metioned the 42 months is the minimum time possible. The transfer is firstly one to the passanger fleet regardless of basing. Then once you have met the requirements of that transfer you then may apply for a basing or come to Hong Kong. Therefore it makes no difference what your intentions are going to be once you move over. The transfer is usually given on the date of the commencement of the first FO course after you have served your time (which I believe is 42 months from your course estart date) provided that you have the seniority for that FO course. So patience my friend. Lets not make this SO or DEFO bashing as we are actually all on the same team.