Quitters Rejoining - Age 60
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Quitters Rejoining - Age 60
So now that the quitters* are allowed to rejoin on changed terms and as a %age they are largely close to use-by date, can we expect the Age 60 to get voted through relatively easily when the package finally gets put on the table?
i.e.
Age 60 B minus
No Bypass pay for the year 6 s/o's
DEF/O's on bases on C minus
92hr overtime threshold
Pay increase (2% seems reasonable, we had one only 5 years ago)
14hr 3 man crew
And when do we get choclate fish at the meetings? And is it one per member or two?
And for the record, if you are on an extension, don't whine to me about the conditions.
I am B-scale, I can't help it if they put more money in my bank than yours each month now... No one put a gun to your head.
www.iasco.com
www.hawaiiaaviation.com
www.flightinternational.com
etc
* Quitters used until someone comes up with a less provocative term, and no,
self serving pr!cks
is not less provocative. (Just to save anyone bothering to contribute it)
i.e.
Age 60 B minus
No Bypass pay for the year 6 s/o's
DEF/O's on bases on C minus
92hr overtime threshold
Pay increase (2% seems reasonable, we had one only 5 years ago)
14hr 3 man crew
And when do we get choclate fish at the meetings? And is it one per member or two?
And for the record, if you are on an extension, don't whine to me about the conditions.
I am B-scale, I can't help it if they put more money in my bank than yours each month now... No one put a gun to your head.
www.iasco.com
www.hawaiiaaviation.com
www.flightinternational.com
etc
* Quitters used until someone comes up with a less provocative term, and no,
self serving pr!cks
is not less provocative. (Just to save anyone bothering to contribute it)
Last edited by jtr; 10th May 2006 at 07:21.
jtr,
"%age they are largely close to use-by date"
Having looked at who actually left, you couldn't be more wrong.
Some of us will be trying to ensure your predictions will also prove to be as wrong.
Don't you worry though, just carry on wallowing!!
"%age they are largely close to use-by date"
Having looked at who actually left, you couldn't be more wrong.
Some of us will be trying to ensure your predictions will also prove to be as wrong.
Don't you worry though, just carry on wallowing!!
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Well instead of just looking at who left, I counted.
Of the first 100 on the seniority list, 64 are either EX or Expelled members. It is not until you get to about seniority #400 (on the AOA list) that the tide starts to turn. From #400 to #1000, there is only a sprinkling of EX or Expelled (with the occaisional block of LEP's tipping the scales, who seem to be mostly EX) so I am not sure exactly how it is that I "couldn't be more wrong" but am willing to listen.
BusyB if you are out to prove my predictions of our future wrong, then more power to you. I hope you can, and will be more than happy if I am wrong. However....
Of the first 100 on the seniority list, 64 are either EX or Expelled members. It is not until you get to about seniority #400 (on the AOA list) that the tide starts to turn. From #400 to #1000, there is only a sprinkling of EX or Expelled (with the occaisional block of LEP's tipping the scales, who seem to be mostly EX) so I am not sure exactly how it is that I "couldn't be more wrong" but am willing to listen.
BusyB if you are out to prove my predictions of our future wrong, then more power to you. I hope you can, and will be more than happy if I am wrong. However....
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Children, quiet in the back please.
Just for clarification...
I have nothing against most who left ( a few exceptions), my stir is at those who are now going to rejoin, now that the "battle is over" and try and get ideal conditions for themselves before they scoot out the door. The AOA is on a mission to get membership at any cost, and this is a fairly good example of it. I suppose I am one of the more militant, and therefore a black sheep amongst the flock, which is another reason why I am probably going to leave after the RP06 vote.
If you read my initial post carefully you will see I was only talking about retreads. If you fall into this catergory, and take offence to my post, then I tip my hat to you and say "Thank you, my work here is done"
Just for clarification...
I have nothing against most who left ( a few exceptions), my stir is at those who are now going to rejoin, now that the "battle is over" and try and get ideal conditions for themselves before they scoot out the door. The AOA is on a mission to get membership at any cost, and this is a fairly good example of it. I suppose I am one of the more militant, and therefore a black sheep amongst the flock, which is another reason why I am probably going to leave after the RP06 vote.
If you read my initial post carefully you will see I was only talking about retreads. If you fall into this catergory, and take offence to my post, then I tip my hat to you and say "Thank you, my work here is done"
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I am not trying to convince you to join, I am telling you that imo anyone that rejoins is a self serv... you get it.
I agree, there are too many factions, A/B/C scale, based, non based, LEP etc etc. Add to the list the new DEFO scale soon I suppose, (they only waited 13 years to try it on again), but all of that is another post in itself.
The basis of my post is that I am dissappointed at the recent EGM since I imagine it will allow ssp's to rejoin, and their only reason for rejoining is in an effort to get age 60 or similar. There are no improvements in conditions that I have seen in any of the proposals.
The union is more divided now that it has ever been, so they (retreads) can hardly say that we now have direction. So why would they bother joining.
Plese don't take any of it personally. We are all entitled to our opinions, different as they may be. If I step on toes expressing mine, then I apologise, but we are all big boys and girls aren't we?
I agree, there are too many factions, A/B/C scale, based, non based, LEP etc etc. Add to the list the new DEFO scale soon I suppose, (they only waited 13 years to try it on again), but all of that is another post in itself.
The basis of my post is that I am dissappointed at the recent EGM since I imagine it will allow ssp's to rejoin, and their only reason for rejoining is in an effort to get age 60 or similar. There are no improvements in conditions that I have seen in any of the proposals.
The union is more divided now that it has ever been, so they (retreads) can hardly say that we now have direction. So why would they bother joining.
Plese don't take any of it personally. We are all entitled to our opinions, different as they may be. If I step on toes expressing mine, then I apologise, but we are all big boys and girls aren't we?
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Originally Posted by kenfoggo
Ah, all clear now, you are saying that nobody should rejoin the union because they would be self serving and therefore not of good standing.
Would someone please try harder to convince me to rejoin?
Would someone please try harder to convince me to rejoin?
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I'm so proud of you dad !
What have you done for your fellow human beings?
Just eating the cake and served your own selfish narrow interests?
You might have felt more connected, dignity and had a better relationship to your self and your family if you had done "the right thing"
It's mainly your loss and know you are the kind of guy who will suffer in silence.
Like your wife, kids and fellow co-workers.
Do you want your son to be like you and your dad?
or break the circle and gain respect?
Try not taking things personally and always be Mr. right, give unconditional love,support and seek win/win
" It's always the right time to do the right thing"
Martin Luther King
Just eating the cake and served your own selfish narrow interests?
You might have felt more connected, dignity and had a better relationship to your self and your family if you had done "the right thing"
It's mainly your loss and know you are the kind of guy who will suffer in silence.
Like your wife, kids and fellow co-workers.
Do you want your son to be like you and your dad?
or break the circle and gain respect?
Try not taking things personally and always be Mr. right, give unconditional love,support and seek win/win
" It's always the right time to do the right thing"
Martin Luther King
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here here
I got what you said jtr. It is a huge problem we have now with possibly the 60 vote having more yeahs and probably enough for the 50% vote(hopefully not!). This will just further erode any respect the union has, especially when they tell us that is is a great deal blah blah blah!!! Hopefully most of the rejoiners want to be back for good reasons but as jtr has pointed out, the demographics arent good!!!! I have stayed in the union although at times i didnt agree with them, i felt we still had a chance. This latest batch of voting proposals that will come our way will have a long lasting affect on us all, we need to be smart and think long term....if not i will give myself a 1.5% pay rise!!!!
Firstly, a hell of a lot more B-scalers than A-minus scalers left the association over the past 5 years (B-Scalers include C to Z scales for this).
Secondly, if you help everybody by helping yourself whats the problem. Not joining, or remaining in, the AOA is spiteing both yourself and everyone else.
Age 60. Yes, It will probably get negotiated for the short term and then it will be superceded by Age Discrimination Legislation that will probably end up with a 65 retirement age. Lets spite ourselves and not get anything out of it in the meanwhile!!
Tifters, please tell me how you get a 1.5% payrise with subs at 1.25% and a 25% discount if you've been in 8 years.
Its down to individuals what you do, but anyone who thinks that we will do better by just accepting what CX throw at us is just being naive. Even with the reduced numbers in the AOA at present, improvements in various areas, admittedly minor, are happening. To improve bigger items we need a bigger union. Its not rocket science.
Secondly, if you help everybody by helping yourself whats the problem. Not joining, or remaining in, the AOA is spiteing both yourself and everyone else.
Age 60. Yes, It will probably get negotiated for the short term and then it will be superceded by Age Discrimination Legislation that will probably end up with a 65 retirement age. Lets spite ourselves and not get anything out of it in the meanwhile!!
Tifters, please tell me how you get a 1.5% payrise with subs at 1.25% and a 25% discount if you've been in 8 years.
Its down to individuals what you do, but anyone who thinks that we will do better by just accepting what CX throw at us is just being naive. Even with the reduced numbers in the AOA at present, improvements in various areas, admittedly minor, are happening. To improve bigger items we need a bigger union. Its not rocket science.
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"Firstly, a hell of a lot more B-scalers than A-minus scalers left the association over the past 5 years (B-Scalers include C to Z scales for this)."
Mate have a look at the list (It is under seniority just in case you aren't sure) and you will see the % of A vs B that left is pretty one sided. #521 is where it becomes B scale.
Mate have a look at the list (It is under seniority just in case you aren't sure) and you will see the % of A vs B that left is pretty one sided. #521 is where it becomes B scale.
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KB, not as disgusted as some families are with you and the current DFO. Two 49ers dead on suspicious circumstances and with one of the deceased wife, leaving a child with no parents.
Can’t help to think you and NR contributed to that decision. Something to be quite proud of.
KB, I realised you signed the letter, you are too stupid to think of this on your own, then we must thank the current DFO and the out-gone DT.
Can’t help to think you and NR contributed to that decision. Something to be quite proud of.
KB, I realised you signed the letter, you are too stupid to think of this on your own, then we must thank the current DFO and the out-gone DT.
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Can't help but agree with the sentiments touched upon by Mr. Bloggs. The firing of the 49er's was more than 'just' a response to the AOA's industrial action. It was a cruel, vindictive, malicious and craven attack on a group of individuals who, for the most part, were not aware that they were even on the company's 'hit list'. That would be bad enough in and of itself. The management then lowered themselves to the level of butchers when they then embarked on a campaign of victimisation of the men they had just fired. They broke privacy laws, lied to government departments (IRD as an example), and blacklisted them with many of the worlds major airlines that would have given them refuge. Worst of all was the effect it had on the mens families and loved ones. Many a wife shed a sleepless night in tears. Many children had their lives turned upside down and fractured. I suggest that any of you who read this put aside your own thoughts about the 'sins' of the 49er's, and contemplate the sheer viciousness of what 'our' management did to our friends and colleagues. As Mr Bloggs mentioned, two of those same colleagues are now dead, one of their wives also dead, and a 3 year old orphan left to grow up without his parents. I am ashamed to think that some of those 'managers' used to be considered my friends. I can understand how someone utterly devoid of morals like Turnbull or Tyler could play their part in this tragedy, but I am still bewildered how many of the 'middle management' of Flight Ops can face themselves after what they took part in. As long as I live, I will remember what happened. No amount of false 'good will' from these people will get me to forget what was done to basically decent, hard working men. In the annals of industrial terrorism, what our management did should go down in infamy. As to the creatures involved, I can barely look at them without feelling ill. Remember, these leapords will never change their spots. They are a disgrace as human beings. OCD
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So nice to see you again OCD, it's been a long time. While everything you say is true it worked didn't it? In fact the 'sins of the 49ers' as you call them were no worse than yours or anyone else. To blame us for those unfortunate deaths however is a bit of a stretch.
We set out to bust your union and it worked. So well in fact you cut those guys loose last year. What you have left could hardly be called a union, more like the video club it once was. The bickering and infighting is even better than it was when I was in the chair, I can't help but laugh. Like I said, this is fun to watch.
Please be guided accordingly.
We set out to bust your union and it worked. So well in fact you cut those guys loose last year. What you have left could hardly be called a union, more like the video club it once was. The bickering and infighting is even better than it was when I was in the chair, I can't help but laugh. Like I said, this is fun to watch.
Please be guided accordingly.
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agree with the comments from ocd;also cannot really believe that the real kb is trawling these pages.If so,very much hope that the 'just desserts' is handed out some day - completely morally bankrupt.