Direct Entry F/O advert
Join Date: Nov 2005
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The way CX selects command candidates has not changed. The way they select who passes has changed.
Ali, it is hard to face reality and it hurts.
The 320 jobs are for Dragon if it is a valid advert. Checking the waters I believe. Maybe seeing what is out there in case of a Mass Resignation or a Mass Termination.
Ali, it is hard to face reality and it hurts.
The 320 jobs are for Dragon if it is a valid advert. Checking the waters I believe. Maybe seeing what is out there in case of a Mass Resignation or a Mass Termination.
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Crap.................the 320 advert is by a company run by an EX CX Employee called Cathay Pacific Aviation Leasing or some such which deals in aircraft leasing and crew supply....................has an office in Kowloon................Often gets mistaken for CX. The guy himself says the choice of name was a mistake but too late now.........................
mass resignation from KA....testing the waters......... Actually I was talking to Elvis the other day about who shot JFK, and he said they still have his body along with some little grey men in area51...........................
mass resignation from KA....testing the waters......... Actually I was talking to Elvis the other day about who shot JFK, and he said they still have his body along with some little grey men in area51...........................
Join Date: Feb 2005
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It may well be Cathay Pacific Aviation Leasing but the advert definitely says Cathay Pacific Airways.
So, either its a typo or the leasing company is deliberately leading people astray.
Quote: Cathay Pacific AIRWAYS (though AINCO Leasing)
Lastly, having done AEA/FF last week....we were told that CX is actively considering DEFOs on the pax fleet. No decision has been made, nor is one pending at this time.
Perhaps we'll have to wait until negotiations for RP06!
So, either its a typo or the leasing company is deliberately leading people astray.
Quote: Cathay Pacific AIRWAYS (though AINCO Leasing)
Lastly, having done AEA/FF last week....we were told that CX is actively considering DEFOs on the pax fleet. No decision has been made, nor is one pending at this time.
Perhaps we'll have to wait until negotiations for RP06!
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CX has made the decision on DE F/O's for the PAX fleet and the decision is yes. Recruiting for these slots on the Airbus and 777 at first will begin very early in the new year. Don't expect a JFO upgrade anytime soon...
Join Date: Oct 2005
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You are suggesting that CX will do away with seniority?
Will these DEFO's pax be on a 'D' scale?
Has this been run by the union? Don't think it has much chance of getting through.
Plenty of CX S/O's with plenty of experience to be FO's and have been in CX system for a while now, think the company would/should consider them first.
If they are keen on doing DEFO pax as you say, then just do away with S/O's and employ all new joiners as F/O's. They would probably do it on a lower payscale for first 2 years (maybe 2nd year S/O pay)
Will these DEFO's pax be on a 'D' scale?
Has this been run by the union? Don't think it has much chance of getting through.
Plenty of CX S/O's with plenty of experience to be FO's and have been in CX system for a while now, think the company would/should consider them first.
If they are keen on doing DEFO pax as you say, then just do away with S/O's and employ all new joiners as F/O's. They would probably do it on a lower payscale for first 2 years (maybe 2nd year S/O pay)
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CX won't do away with seniority. Current S/O's will retain their number, obviously higher than that of a DE F/O and when the S/O is upgraded he/she will jump the DE F/O. A current S/O will still have a command slot before a DE F/O.
Don't know what pay scale they'll be on. Possibly a Freighter or an S/O scale with some sort of housing allowance. Again I'm not sure.
Doesn't need to be run by the union, the company can do it as per the current CoS, bypass pay will have to be paid though (3 months after the DoJ of the F/O). Whether the union likes it or not, the company can do it without even telling them.
Plenty of S/O's with the experience I agree, however, as per the training programme, 60 sectors for an S/O unrestricted versus 20 or 30 for a DE F/O, clears up the training program when trainers are in short supply.
Lastly, maybe the company will do that. However, S/O's and F/O's when employed by the company have different experience levels, just as an S/O is recruited with less (or different) experience than an F/O on the Cargo fleet. Freighter guys generally have (medium to heavy) jet time whereas S/O guys normally have medium turbine or piston time. Makes a difference when recruiting and as far as CX is concerned makes a difference to training.
Don't know what pay scale they'll be on. Possibly a Freighter or an S/O scale with some sort of housing allowance. Again I'm not sure.
Doesn't need to be run by the union, the company can do it as per the current CoS, bypass pay will have to be paid though (3 months after the DoJ of the F/O). Whether the union likes it or not, the company can do it without even telling them.
Plenty of S/O's with the experience I agree, however, as per the training programme, 60 sectors for an S/O unrestricted versus 20 or 30 for a DE F/O, clears up the training program when trainers are in short supply.
Lastly, maybe the company will do that. However, S/O's and F/O's when employed by the company have different experience levels, just as an S/O is recruited with less (or different) experience than an F/O on the Cargo fleet. Freighter guys generally have (medium to heavy) jet time whereas S/O guys normally have medium turbine or piston time. Makes a difference when recruiting and as far as CX is concerned makes a difference to training.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Well an S/O on Full FO pay, Bring it on! Don't think the company will like that, they hate paying bypass pay, but I guess it is cheaper than paying for aircraft that have no one to fly them.
Will watch with interest as to when these guys start.
Will watch with interest as to when these guys start.
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Hope it's not true but guess we'll have to wait and see. The SO thing is dragging out to 4 years as it is-not sure how they can expect guys to go for longer than that!? 4 Years is already ridiculous. All the while ones skills and abilities are deteriorating-but don't let it affect your sims lest you get a 3.
Maybe it'll be retirement age 60 or we have to take Direct Entry FO?
Maybe it'll be retirement age 60 or we have to take Direct Entry FO?
Last edited by BMM389EC; 10th Dec 2005 at 11:31.
CX has for a number of years been considering doing away with the rank of SO. There is no secret in this fact. I don’t know what any add said on the said web sight, but CX still hasn’t made a decision on this, period so any speculation to the contrary is purely that, speculation. They are still feeling the water so to speak and weighing up the long term benefits against the short term financial pain, i.e. bypass pay, extra training cost and so on. The last I heard (one week ago) we were still looking at recruiting a large number of direct entry S/O’s over the next year. The other consideration is what to do with our cadets. Unlike KA, CX doesn’t have the sectors to fast track them into the right seat after they get back from Adelaide. Our operation doesn’t lend itself to putting brand new cadets in the right seat.
On another note though I find it very interesting that in late November, CX’s recruitment team visited their counterparts at EK in Dubai. This was either to find out how and where they were recruiting their 390+ direct entry FO’s they are after or to see how they were going in recruiting flight attendants out of Hong Kong before they commence their PEK service.
PS: I never saw the add on the noted web sight so can’t verify what it said but what I can say is that the add is no longer there. There is an add about a week later though for the same leasing company for direct entry F/O’s in Qatar on the A320.
On another note though I find it very interesting that in late November, CX’s recruitment team visited their counterparts at EK in Dubai. This was either to find out how and where they were recruiting their 390+ direct entry FO’s they are after or to see how they were going in recruiting flight attendants out of Hong Kong before they commence their PEK service.
PS: I never saw the add on the noted web sight so can’t verify what it said but what I can say is that the add is no longer there. There is an add about a week later though for the same leasing company for direct entry F/O’s in Qatar on the A320.
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As if CX need to test the waters on how many potential candidates out there. they have over two thousand CVs sitting on level 6 most of which have serious time, including jet.
CX dont operate A320s, so whats the point of specifying them, you cant CCQ a juy from an A320 to one of the 36 777s on order.
Bypass pay, its not 3 months after the DE FO starts its the day the first guy starts and it is payed to all the SOs first.
Finally it is not nessacarily 60 sectors to upgrade a JFO, there are 20, 40, 60, and 80 sector checks any of which if passed sucessfully can be counted as the check to line. And no ground course if its on type, any new joiner will be put through a full type ground school and sims. Its the CX way.
Maybe for a CX lite or HK Cargo but not for CX mainline, and the ad even said that.
CX dont operate A320s, so whats the point of specifying them, you cant CCQ a juy from an A320 to one of the 36 777s on order.
Bypass pay, its not 3 months after the DE FO starts its the day the first guy starts and it is payed to all the SOs first.
Finally it is not nessacarily 60 sectors to upgrade a JFO, there are 20, 40, 60, and 80 sector checks any of which if passed sucessfully can be counted as the check to line. And no ground course if its on type, any new joiner will be put through a full type ground school and sims. Its the CX way.
Maybe for a CX lite or HK Cargo but not for CX mainline, and the ad even said that.
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Flying Kiwi
CX Conditions of Service
10.5 In any case of recruitment of First Officers by Direct Entry, other than in accordance with 6.2 (not applicable), the next most senior Second Officer suitable for promotion will receive First Officer Bypass Pay in the form of Junior First Officer's Salary on a one for one basis commencing three (3) months after the date of joining of the First Officer recruited by Direct Entry. The payment of First Officer Bypass Pay will cease when the Second Officer receiving Bypass Pay commences Junior First Officer training.
Next time have a look at the books before correcting someone who is right.
CX Conditions of Service
10.5 In any case of recruitment of First Officers by Direct Entry, other than in accordance with 6.2 (not applicable), the next most senior Second Officer suitable for promotion will receive First Officer Bypass Pay in the form of Junior First Officer's Salary on a one for one basis commencing three (3) months after the date of joining of the First Officer recruited by Direct Entry. The payment of First Officer Bypass Pay will cease when the Second Officer receiving Bypass Pay commences Junior First Officer training.
Next time have a look at the books before correcting someone who is right.
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No more S/O's?
What's the go there 404 Titan? Can you peer into your speculative crystal ball for a minute? I am awaiting a start date as an S/O - are they proposing to call new joiners F/O's, let them do the minimum takeoffs and landings but keep them on the current S/O package? Or does the abolition of S/O's as we know it mean they will employ DEFOs on the "normal" JFO package?
While I'm here, with the new order announced, do the CX old hands here think they will recruit on the 777 for DESO (as they have done in small numbers in 2005), or will 2006 be business as usual with A340/B744 slots?
Cheers from a soon ex CX-wannabe!
While I'm here, with the new order announced, do the CX old hands here think they will recruit on the 777 for DESO (as they have done in small numbers in 2005), or will 2006 be business as usual with A340/B744 slots?
Cheers from a soon ex CX-wannabe!
