Cathay vs Air Canada?
Join Date: May 2002
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When I first saw this thread I thought it was a joke. On reading the posts I find that a few are taking it seriously. My tuppence worth is, I'd rather work for CX who have never, in approaching 60 years of operations, made an operating loss. They have declared a couple of petty cash losses but still operated at a profit. Air Canada well you see that's why I thought it was a joke.Seriously though it is a lifestyle thing and those who cannot cope with the hectic pace of life, and the pollution are probably better off in Canada. I remember a joke - man in doctors surgery, doctor says if you give up beer, smoking, gambling and sex you will live a lot longer....or it will at least seem that way. Yay Canada.
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But it's so much more than just one carrier over another!
With AC you get the standard starting position in Toronto or Montreal. Year’s later maybe a cruiser position in Vancouver. You will move or commute to one of these cities for the rest of your life. That’s it!
With CX you have options...many of them. You can join as an S/O and live in HK for 5-7 years then take a base. With bases in Europe, Australia and North America you decide where you go and where you live. If you have the option of a foreign work permit you can live in Europe working from one of several major cities for several years. Then if you want, move back to NA with one of several bases here.
You can join as a direct F/O on the freighter and remain in NA for the rest of your life or if you change your mind, move to any of the other bases around the world.
But, if all you want to do is live in Toronto for the rest of your life, go with AC. So the bottom line is do you want options and excitement in your life or the hum drum life of AC in YYZ?
With AC you get the standard starting position in Toronto or Montreal. Year’s later maybe a cruiser position in Vancouver. You will move or commute to one of these cities for the rest of your life. That’s it!
With CX you have options...many of them. You can join as an S/O and live in HK for 5-7 years then take a base. With bases in Europe, Australia and North America you decide where you go and where you live. If you have the option of a foreign work permit you can live in Europe working from one of several major cities for several years. Then if you want, move back to NA with one of several bases here.
You can join as a direct F/O on the freighter and remain in NA for the rest of your life or if you change your mind, move to any of the other bases around the world.
But, if all you want to do is live in Toronto for the rest of your life, go with AC. So the bottom line is do you want options and excitement in your life or the hum drum life of AC in YYZ?
Join Date: Mar 2005
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I have always been led to believe that an employment ban exists between KA and CX.
Does anybody know if this is set in concrete. Has it been tested. Does it apply to pax and cargo fleets.
Does anybody know if this is set in concrete. Has it been tested. Does it apply to pax and cargo fleets.
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Interesting debate this - and it just happens to be a relevant and real issue for several of us in UK having to consider with offers from CX and other mainline carriers on the table. And I thought getting through the selection process(es) would be the difficult bit!
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Cpt dude, when you say you will never have to worry about your job at CX that leads me to believe that either you are not really in aviation or if you are you havent been there very long.....everybody in aviation is at risk of loosing their jobs as anybody out there knows it only takes a war or attacks somewhere or SARS or high fuel prices or whatever but anyway that is not really the point.
Job security at CX......It seems to me it might be good except:
A- You open your mouth (i.e see the 49ers)
B-You fail a SIM
c- You fail to show up to your so-called NA bases because you commute to it ( as most of the CX guys I know do)
So if you are the type to worry about having a bad day in the sim or full loads on your commute or saying the wrong thing to the wrong person....job security might elude you.
We might have laid off in the past but everybody is back ,but most importantly we HAVE STRONG LABOUR LAWS and we HAVE FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION you get dude ....FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION and that is worth lots of cash and nice cars etc...
As far as living the ho-hum life in Toronto.........if that is where you are from how is that bad.....No excitement you say.....
Go skiing, kayaking, parachute jumping ,chase girls, go off-roading, hunting,fishing, skating,play hockey, running,hicking,shopping or travel the world on your passes.
I just dont get why you think Canada is not exciting and HK or CX or whatever you are refering to is.
Job security at CX......It seems to me it might be good except:
A- You open your mouth (i.e see the 49ers)
B-You fail a SIM
c- You fail to show up to your so-called NA bases because you commute to it ( as most of the CX guys I know do)
So if you are the type to worry about having a bad day in the sim or full loads on your commute or saying the wrong thing to the wrong person....job security might elude you.
We might have laid off in the past but everybody is back ,but most importantly we HAVE STRONG LABOUR LAWS and we HAVE FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION you get dude ....FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION and that is worth lots of cash and nice cars etc...
As far as living the ho-hum life in Toronto.........if that is where you are from how is that bad.....No excitement you say.....
Go skiing, kayaking, parachute jumping ,chase girls, go off-roading, hunting,fishing, skating,play hockey, running,hicking,shopping or travel the world on your passes.
I just dont get why you think Canada is not exciting and HK or CX or whatever you are refering to is.
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This thread is reaching the end of it's life. Anybody that even needs to think about which is better should probably avoid Cathay for the simple reason that you probably won't make it through the process.
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Meaw,
Well let's just see here...you said;
"Job security at CX......It seems to me it might be good except:
A- You open your mouth (i.e see the 49ers)
B-You fail a SIM
c- You fail to show up to your so-called NA bases because you commute to it ( as most of the CX guys I know do)"
A. Why do you need to open your mouth? Your hired to fly aren't you? So you don't need to be the big shot.
B. You can have a bad day in a sim and get a low score on one or two items but if you do fail a sim you still won't get fired. Fail two and maybe you will but if you fail two sims maybe you should be fired.
C. Well, guys always push it to the limit don't they? CX requires you to be on location 12 hours before a flight. They don't check up on you to see if you are on location, they just want you to be there for the flight. But some guys don't like to go so early so they cut it closer and closer til one day they miss the flight. What else should CX do?
You guys in strong unions relax and take the support of your union. You know you won't get fired and so you don't need to be sharp or proffesional. But your right, if your a slacker...you better go to AC because CX will fire you.
Well let's just see here...you said;
"Job security at CX......It seems to me it might be good except:
A- You open your mouth (i.e see the 49ers)
B-You fail a SIM
c- You fail to show up to your so-called NA bases because you commute to it ( as most of the CX guys I know do)"
A. Why do you need to open your mouth? Your hired to fly aren't you? So you don't need to be the big shot.
B. You can have a bad day in a sim and get a low score on one or two items but if you do fail a sim you still won't get fired. Fail two and maybe you will but if you fail two sims maybe you should be fired.
C. Well, guys always push it to the limit don't they? CX requires you to be on location 12 hours before a flight. They don't check up on you to see if you are on location, they just want you to be there for the flight. But some guys don't like to go so early so they cut it closer and closer til one day they miss the flight. What else should CX do?
You guys in strong unions relax and take the support of your union. You know you won't get fired and so you don't need to be sharp or proffesional. But your right, if your a slacker...you better go to AC because CX will fire you.
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CPDude....
I think a few people have mentioned, a company that can unilateraly fire you, by paying you 90 days pay, fire you for tossing some peanuts at a senior executive, demote you on the seniority list (doesn't happen in a union shop in NA) for disciplinary reasons....that unilateraly change the COS for rostering etc etc etc...
Cathay perfected the A, B, C, D pay scales....
And of course you forget to mention the formula pay system that allows a pilot to trade seniority and pay to come up with their preferences as to base, equipment and monthly flying...
You can fly the CRJ, the EMB 175 or 190, the A319/320/321, the B767-200ER/-300ER, the A340-300, -500, the A330, and soon the B777-300ER, the B777-200LR, and the 787-8, -9.....
One can chose to fly domestic, transborder, international, long haul and ultra long haul (soon)....
Cathay pilots have quit to join Air Canada and Air Canada pilots (a couple that I know of) have quit to join Cathay.
I think a few people have mentioned, a company that can unilateraly fire you, by paying you 90 days pay, fire you for tossing some peanuts at a senior executive, demote you on the seniority list (doesn't happen in a union shop in NA) for disciplinary reasons....that unilateraly change the COS for rostering etc etc etc...
Cathay perfected the A, B, C, D pay scales....
And of course you forget to mention the formula pay system that allows a pilot to trade seniority and pay to come up with their preferences as to base, equipment and monthly flying...
You can fly the CRJ, the EMB 175 or 190, the A319/320/321, the B767-200ER/-300ER, the A340-300, -500, the A330, and soon the B777-300ER, the B777-200LR, and the 787-8, -9.....
One can chose to fly domestic, transborder, international, long haul and ultra long haul (soon)....
Cathay pilots have quit to join Air Canada and Air Canada pilots (a couple that I know of) have quit to join Cathay.
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In all reality it should be three sims you fail before you face the man with the axe. No doubt CX is a patriarchal company, just play the game fair and you will never have a problem. Bend the rules to suit yourself and ... well your call. Anyway you look at it Hong Kong is a more exciting place to live than Canada. Even on Letterman the other night a guest asked if all Canadians go to the same school of advanced boring, the reply was of course not there's one in every Territory.
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Cpt dude,
If you are a slacker or unprofessional go to AC.......
i THINK YOU ARE PRBABLY BITTER because you did not make it in to AC. We have one of the best safety records in the world and one of the best on time performance.......not typycal of unprofessional pilots. As far as being slackers.......you are an i....t.Most guys flying here spent years and years flying in the bush,loading and unloading palnes doing the refueling, flying their asses off at charter airlines or in the military.The average pilots had to work like a dog for at least 10-15 years to get in.
No one here is an ab-initio BS who was in the right seat of an Airbus with 200 hours so you have no clue what you are saying.
As far as having a strong union, in aviation you need one.....I will refer you to the 49 rs thread , or the QR threads or the EK treads or MAS or whatever one you want to pick.A strong union is a must but that in no way means we are not reasonable or slackers we just work our buts off and sacrificed big to get here and we deserve RESPECT.
As far as Canada being boring guys you do not know what you are talking about.I am still waiting to hear from you what it is that WE do not have here that you do.Believe me saying we are boring is prejudicial. Why dont you come for a weekend in Montreal ,we ll go out on the town and I bet you will be commuting from Canada.
Oh and before I forget Dude......when you say we are only paid to fly and keep our mouths shut.....I see communism is really doing wonders on you.
If you are a slacker or unprofessional go to AC.......
i THINK YOU ARE PRBABLY BITTER because you did not make it in to AC. We have one of the best safety records in the world and one of the best on time performance.......not typycal of unprofessional pilots. As far as being slackers.......you are an i....t.Most guys flying here spent years and years flying in the bush,loading and unloading palnes doing the refueling, flying their asses off at charter airlines or in the military.The average pilots had to work like a dog for at least 10-15 years to get in.
No one here is an ab-initio BS who was in the right seat of an Airbus with 200 hours so you have no clue what you are saying.
As far as having a strong union, in aviation you need one.....I will refer you to the 49 rs thread , or the QR threads or the EK treads or MAS or whatever one you want to pick.A strong union is a must but that in no way means we are not reasonable or slackers we just work our buts off and sacrificed big to get here and we deserve RESPECT.
As far as Canada being boring guys you do not know what you are talking about.I am still waiting to hear from you what it is that WE do not have here that you do.Believe me saying we are boring is prejudicial. Why dont you come for a weekend in Montreal ,we ll go out on the town and I bet you will be commuting from Canada.
Oh and before I forget Dude......when you say we are only paid to fly and keep our mouths shut.....I see communism is really doing wonders on you.
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Hey meaw,
i THINK YOU ARE PRBABLY BITTER because you did not make it in to AC. We have one of the best safety records in the world and one of the best on time performance.......not typycal of unprofessional pilots. As far as being slackers.......you are an i....t.Most guys flying here spent years and years flying in the bush,loading and unloading palnes doing the refueling, flying their asses off at charter airlines or in the military.The average pilots had to work like a dog for at least 10-15 years to get in.
I guess AC pilots are not known for their spelling, regardless, we have a similar background among our pilot group. Who said I wasn't with AC previously? I note that your airline performance is in the top 50...nice!
No one here is an ab-initio BS who was in the right seat of an Airbus with 200 hours so you have no clue what you are saying.
Actually, you’re wrong on that account. AC hired many from Seneca College in the late 70's and early 80's all with only 200 hours. Most are still in AC.
As far as having a strong union, in aviation you need one.....I will refer you to the 49 rs thread , or the QR threads or the EK treads or MAS or whatever one you want to pick.A strong union is a must but that in no way means we are not reasonable or slackers we just work our buts off and sacrificed big to get here and we deserve RESPECT.
Sure, look what the strong unions did in the USA. During the profitable years they strong-armed the airlines to pay a ridiculous salary and benefits which directly affected the ability of the airlines to survive a recession. Also, didn't anyone ever tell you buddy that you earn respect not demand it. Yup, your a bush pilot.
As far as Canada being boring guys you do not know what you are talking about.I am still waiting to hear from you what it is that WE do not have here that you do.Believe me saying we are boring is prejudicial. Why dont you come for a weekend in Montreal ,we ll go out on the town and I bet you will be commuting from Canada.
So what makes you think that I and many others don't already live here? Or maybe we could if we chose to. Oh ya, it's what we do not have that makes it great...HIGH TAXES!
Oh and before I forget Dude......when you say we are only paid to fly and keep our mouths shut.....I see communism is really doing wonders on you.
Sure does comrade!
i THINK YOU ARE PRBABLY BITTER because you did not make it in to AC. We have one of the best safety records in the world and one of the best on time performance.......not typycal of unprofessional pilots. As far as being slackers.......you are an i....t.Most guys flying here spent years and years flying in the bush,loading and unloading palnes doing the refueling, flying their asses off at charter airlines or in the military.The average pilots had to work like a dog for at least 10-15 years to get in.
I guess AC pilots are not known for their spelling, regardless, we have a similar background among our pilot group. Who said I wasn't with AC previously? I note that your airline performance is in the top 50...nice!
No one here is an ab-initio BS who was in the right seat of an Airbus with 200 hours so you have no clue what you are saying.
Actually, you’re wrong on that account. AC hired many from Seneca College in the late 70's and early 80's all with only 200 hours. Most are still in AC.
As far as having a strong union, in aviation you need one.....I will refer you to the 49 rs thread , or the QR threads or the EK treads or MAS or whatever one you want to pick.A strong union is a must but that in no way means we are not reasonable or slackers we just work our buts off and sacrificed big to get here and we deserve RESPECT.
Sure, look what the strong unions did in the USA. During the profitable years they strong-armed the airlines to pay a ridiculous salary and benefits which directly affected the ability of the airlines to survive a recession. Also, didn't anyone ever tell you buddy that you earn respect not demand it. Yup, your a bush pilot.
As far as Canada being boring guys you do not know what you are talking about.I am still waiting to hear from you what it is that WE do not have here that you do.Believe me saying we are boring is prejudicial. Why dont you come for a weekend in Montreal ,we ll go out on the town and I bet you will be commuting from Canada.
So what makes you think that I and many others don't already live here? Or maybe we could if we chose to. Oh ya, it's what we do not have that makes it great...HIGH TAXES!
Oh and before I forget Dude......when you say we are only paid to fly and keep our mouths shut.....I see communism is really doing wonders on you.
Sure does comrade!
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It would appear that the question (as initially posed here by Captain Over) has been answered by the very same (Capt Over) as he is now asking how to import his Dog/cat or perhaps other culinary delight into Hong Kong............................
So its Cathay 1 Air Canada 0........................
end of thread, eh ???
So its Cathay 1 Air Canada 0........................
end of thread, eh ???
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To Tamalai (mentioned personally for the laughter generated!) 
and everyone else that contributed to my original quest - thank-you very much for your time, and valuable input (minus the usual de-railings and mud-slingers...grrr!). Your information is appreciated.
I'd love it if I get on with CX. As a back-up, AC does come close, but CX does have the edge overall, in my opinion. Your posts here (and elsewhere) have confirmed my decision.
As a famous (infamous?!) TV detective once said... "Oh, just one more question..." What is the deal about having CX buy a house in HKG? What is the monthly mortgage limit? Is there a max term? Thoughts - buy in HKG, stay there a few years, then bid for a N.Am base (and sell the house, of course!).
Thanks once again to everyone that made all the great positive postings here.
and everyone else that contributed to my original quest - thank-you very much for your time, and valuable input (minus the usual de-railings and mud-slingers...grrr!). Your information is appreciated.I'd love it if I get on with CX. As a back-up, AC does come close, but CX does have the edge overall, in my opinion. Your posts here (and elsewhere) have confirmed my decision.
As a famous (infamous?!) TV detective once said... "Oh, just one more question..." What is the deal about having CX buy a house in HKG? What is the monthly mortgage limit? Is there a max term? Thoughts - buy in HKG, stay there a few years, then bid for a N.Am base (and sell the house, of course!).
Thanks once again to everyone that made all the great positive postings here.
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What is the deal about having CX buy a house in HKG? What is the monthly mortgage limit? Is there a max term? Thoughts - buy in HKG, stay there a few years, then bid for a N.Am base (and sell the house, of course!).
You have just broken the code!
It is not inconceivable that if you invest in Hong Kong real estate (with Cathay's money) for 8 to 10 years, you can return to north America with 1 million in equity.
There are lots of different options, but if you were to arrive at Cathay with this as your "10 year plan", I would wager that you would come very close.
Good luck with your future. Setting career goals for yourself is very important and it sounds like you are well on your way.
You have just broken the code!
It is not inconceivable that if you invest in Hong Kong real estate (with Cathay's money) for 8 to 10 years, you can return to north America with 1 million in equity.
There are lots of different options, but if you were to arrive at Cathay with this as your "10 year plan", I would wager that you would come very close.
Good luck with your future. Setting career goals for yourself is very important and it sounds like you are well on your way.