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Hey 411A, how come you dislike the CX pilots so much? This is a genuine question and not intended as a "wind-up". 411A, I'm interested in reading both sides of the argument and you seem like you could offer a unique perspective on the CX debacle.
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TALUFTE, don't even respond to this fools' incoherent posts. He lives for the fact that he upsets people. This is where he gets his enjoyment. He has posted over 1600 messages in less than two years, almost all of which put someone, something or some organization down.
Truth is, this miscreants ramblings wouldn't sell as tripe in a Sham Shui Po "Dai Pai Dong".
He's a Sad Old Git with no life trying frantically to elicit respect in a profession that he’s no longer part of.
Truth is, this miscreants ramblings wouldn't sell as tripe in a Sham Shui Po "Dai Pai Dong".
He's a Sad Old Git with no life trying frantically to elicit respect in a profession that he’s no longer part of.
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Well TALUFTE, the reality is that the CX clowns have really never had it so good. They work for a rather prestigious carrier, fly well maintained equipment and are paid quite reasonable salaries and have very good advancement possibilities...and STILL they whinge and complain.
The poor guys miss their families too much....or have too little time off they will tell you. If these guys don't like the job, they have a very simple solution at hand...simply quit and find another employer.
The fact that CX is way behind the power curve on earnings does not concern them at all...the only things that matter to them is their small little world of THEMSELVES, not the financial health of the company that they work for or the other employees that are striving to make/maintain CX a viable airline.
The management has dismissed many malcontents...and has a few more in their sights, i'm sure.
And then there is the employment "ban". Pilots are told that they had better not join CX and in the meantime many present flight crew are accepting upgrades at the expense of those "dismissed".
The reality is...these guys "cause" is dead as a doornail, and many know already, the rest will find out eventually, much to their consternation i'm sure. These malcontents are just SOL.
The poor guys miss their families too much....or have too little time off they will tell you. If these guys don't like the job, they have a very simple solution at hand...simply quit and find another employer.
The fact that CX is way behind the power curve on earnings does not concern them at all...the only things that matter to them is their small little world of THEMSELVES, not the financial health of the company that they work for or the other employees that are striving to make/maintain CX a viable airline.
The management has dismissed many malcontents...and has a few more in their sights, i'm sure.
And then there is the employment "ban". Pilots are told that they had better not join CX and in the meantime many present flight crew are accepting upgrades at the expense of those "dismissed".
The reality is...these guys "cause" is dead as a doornail, and many know already, the rest will find out eventually, much to their consternation i'm sure. These malcontents are just SOL.
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Kubota:
Read your own post and then compare it with 411A's.
411A sums up the perception of the vast majority of people both in HKG and elsewhere of what is going on at CX.
Instead of trying to discredit 411A (and I have indeed read some of his postings that make a lot less sense than the present one), why don't you spend a few minutes to address the various points he's just made.
I'm sure other forum contributors will only appreciate a more factual response from you.
[ 12 December 2001: Message edited by: Hooking Fell ]
Read your own post and then compare it with 411A's.
411A sums up the perception of the vast majority of people both in HKG and elsewhere of what is going on at CX.
Instead of trying to discredit 411A (and I have indeed read some of his postings that make a lot less sense than the present one), why don't you spend a few minutes to address the various points he's just made.
I'm sure other forum contributors will only appreciate a more factual response from you.
[ 12 December 2001: Message edited by: Hooking Fell ]
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Thanks for the input 411A. You've presented the case regarding the pilots at CX but what about management? I've read that CX mgmt is quite dictatorial and inflexible in regards to their approach in dealing with employee disputes. I've always thought that the name of the game is compromise but perhaps that is not the way things are done in Hong Kong. Are there any solutions in sight?
Any comments welcomed. Thanks.
Any comments welcomed. Thanks.
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Well TALUFTE, I certainly cannot address CX management intensions...but consider the following--The airline is formed and continues in business to provide an investment return for its shareholders, the same folks who put up/invested in the company so that it can exist. Employees (including flight crew) are hired to further that aim. The pilots are paid a rather nice salary for their efforts, would you not agree?
So now they want to go slow...just like in the past. A very simple question should be quite evident....why should these flight crew be treated any different than, for example, LAME's without whose efforts the aeroplanes would never get off the ground?
It takes a team effort to make any large business work well, including airlines. Just WHAT do you think makes these malcontent pilots so different?
They are paid well, and have good advancement possibilities, and yet, still complain and moan. Does it not sound to you like they are a bunch of spoiled brats?
So now they want to go slow...just like in the past. A very simple question should be quite evident....why should these flight crew be treated any different than, for example, LAME's without whose efforts the aeroplanes would never get off the ground?
It takes a team effort to make any large business work well, including airlines. Just WHAT do you think makes these malcontent pilots so different?
They are paid well, and have good advancement possibilities, and yet, still complain and moan. Does it not sound to you like they are a bunch of spoiled brats?
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i guess what some people don't realize is that the golden age of flying is long gone. Your long stayovers, great roster and great pay is part of history and a dream. Everything nowadays is about OTP and money.
I know plenty of pilots happy to what they are doing, happy to be a paid pilot, and many pilots who would love to get into an airline.
You knew Hong Kong before you decided to work here. You knew the pay as well. Though I can agree with the A scale that it is quite a big disappointment to take a pay cut, I still say you are making way more than a lot of others.
In this world today, with so many redundant air crew and so many fresh starters, everyone is replaceable. Stop whining, enjoy what you are making and doing and help the company you work for get out of the dirt.
Like what 411A and others have been saying, LIKE IT OR LEAVE IT. The choice is yours.
I know plenty of pilots happy to what they are doing, happy to be a paid pilot, and many pilots who would love to get into an airline.
You knew Hong Kong before you decided to work here. You knew the pay as well. Though I can agree with the A scale that it is quite a big disappointment to take a pay cut, I still say you are making way more than a lot of others.
In this world today, with so many redundant air crew and so many fresh starters, everyone is replaceable. Stop whining, enjoy what you are making and doing and help the company you work for get out of the dirt.
Like what 411A and others have been saying, LIKE IT OR LEAVE IT. The choice is yours.
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JMJ--
I have no direct knowledge, however have been told that it would be in the vicinity of $345,000 yearly, all inclusive, before taxes.
It should also be pointed out that UAL is losing $10 million/day presently.
Clearly, salary adjustments are in order.... ie: down.
I have no direct knowledge, however have been told that it would be in the vicinity of $345,000 yearly, all inclusive, before taxes.
It should also be pointed out that UAL is losing $10 million/day presently.
Clearly, salary adjustments are in order.... ie: down.
Grandpa Aerotart
411a you fail to mention, in all your pro CX ramblings, about the actions of management that would be criminal in the USA.
Just because they can be gotten away with in HK doesn't mean pilots should just accept it!
Chuck.
Just because they can be gotten away with in HK doesn't mean pilots should just accept it!
Chuck.
Grandpa Aerotart
411a,
Read my post again, then read the one about the case being 'kicked out of court'.
There is a world of difference between not having your case heard on a technical point and losing a case on the merits, or otherwise of the case.
As I said the actions of CX management would not be lawfull in the US or Australia and a wrongful dismissal hearing would most certainly go the way of the plaintiff.
I don't work for CX, have never appied and never will. However I have a bunch of friends who do, both A scale and B, and not one of them is a rabid dog looking to destroy what has been, in the past, one of the better jobs in world aviation.
They have all taken significant pay cuts in the last years to 'help' the company. So they have done what you are always insisting the pilot body should do. Then when the company produces record profits they are screwed down harder, seems like a plan to me!!!
They are working their collective ar$es off, the computer rostering program won't produce rosters due to lack of crews, so rather than fix that problem you sack 50 pilots and the rostering is now done on a big white board with a marker pen!
You can turn up for your 'rostered' flight to say Taipei and find when you sign on that you are now going to London and won't be home for several days or more. I suppose a phone call from crewing to that effect before you left home would be unreasonable to you?
How about a quick Anchorage, dead head home on the same aircraft and then do a min rest before heading off in the opposite direction because your body clock has not been put out of kilter by time zone changes? The mere fact you've not had quality rest for over 24 hours is immaterial, right 411a?
There are a few examples of the best way to run an airline around the world, CX is an example of how not to run an airline. But that's ok you'd just bend over and scream "HARDER....FASTER...OH YEAH...THANKYOU BOSS"
Chuck.
PS. And yes perhaps the AoA could have handled it better, but only in hindsight!
Read my post again, then read the one about the case being 'kicked out of court'.
There is a world of difference between not having your case heard on a technical point and losing a case on the merits, or otherwise of the case.
As I said the actions of CX management would not be lawfull in the US or Australia and a wrongful dismissal hearing would most certainly go the way of the plaintiff.
I don't work for CX, have never appied and never will. However I have a bunch of friends who do, both A scale and B, and not one of them is a rabid dog looking to destroy what has been, in the past, one of the better jobs in world aviation.
They have all taken significant pay cuts in the last years to 'help' the company. So they have done what you are always insisting the pilot body should do. Then when the company produces record profits they are screwed down harder, seems like a plan to me!!!
They are working their collective ar$es off, the computer rostering program won't produce rosters due to lack of crews, so rather than fix that problem you sack 50 pilots and the rostering is now done on a big white board with a marker pen!
You can turn up for your 'rostered' flight to say Taipei and find when you sign on that you are now going to London and won't be home for several days or more. I suppose a phone call from crewing to that effect before you left home would be unreasonable to you?
How about a quick Anchorage, dead head home on the same aircraft and then do a min rest before heading off in the opposite direction because your body clock has not been put out of kilter by time zone changes? The mere fact you've not had quality rest for over 24 hours is immaterial, right 411a?
There are a few examples of the best way to run an airline around the world, CX is an example of how not to run an airline. But that's ok you'd just bend over and scream "HARDER....FASTER...OH YEAH...THANKYOU BOSS"
Chuck.
PS. And yes perhaps the AoA could have handled it better, but only in hindsight!
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Isn't it interesting the Press are given an
informal briefing at which for once the truth
is told!!!! Blow me down we must stop this at
once, all briefings are now banned.
Stick with the lies and disinformation their
much easier to handle and less confusing to
the public and the press.
Give the staff a 2.5% payrise to compensate
the 8.33% paycut WOW how generous!!!!
informal briefing at which for once the truth
is told!!!! Blow me down we must stop this at
once, all briefings are now banned.
Stick with the lies and disinformation their
much easier to handle and less confusing to
the public and the press.
Give the staff a 2.5% payrise to compensate
the 8.33% paycut WOW how generous!!!!
