Peanuts to a peanut?
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I wonder if D.T himself or any management for that matter has taken the time to consider what (besides a few beers) would drive someone to such lengths. The ill feeling is endemic in the company and this should be seen as yet another wake up call that all is not well in the pilot ranks of Cathay Pacific.
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The whole of life is a series of lessons. You either learn them or you have to redo the course over and over again until you do. This is not going to go away because we do nothing. It will return to haunt us all if we stand back, as checkmate says, arms folded and watch a fellow professional go down because some power-hungry, arrogant office wallah takes it into his head to sack him over loss of face.
I say again, it is not the individual that concerns me - he has made the causes and should pay a price, but the price is way too high. There is a principle here and we ignore that at our collective peril.
I say again, it is not the individual that concerns me - he has made the causes and should pay a price, but the price is way too high. There is a principle here and we ignore that at our collective peril.
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In another life, a common sore point with the union was that the union always got the idiots' job back whether they were members or not. As the recognized bargaining agent, the union had to do it . We sometimes shook our collective heads and wondered why we spent good money defending non-members, but then some 'good guys' would get fired and we were glad we had the power to get their jobs back. The AOA needs to become a union. and represent the good, the bad, and the ugly.
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Just as a matter of interest, was DT in the pub playing a game of Bingo that I see is now available every evening for us all! If so, who was delegated to explain to him how the game actually worked. Perhaps he was so frustrated with his own lack of understanding of the rules of the game that he just lost his rag and the peanuts were just the final straw!
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Good point Panza. If you threaten someone JUNIOR to you that's OK. If you do something a lot less aggressive to someone SENIOR watch out.
Was DT sober? What time was it? Any witnesses? Is it just DT against the 'thrower'?
Why can't it be said that it was an unfortunate 'accident'?
Take it to court - DT won't want to see his name in the SCMP "sitting in a bar late at night chatting to his pet hostey when one of the grossly overpaid pilots drops a bag of peanuts on him - an offence for which the said pilot was subsequently fired..."
Makes him look like a bit of a prat too.
Come on Ken - you can't agree with this can you??
Sorry - course you can - just keep quiet and say yessir boss.....
Was DT sober? What time was it? Any witnesses? Is it just DT against the 'thrower'?
Why can't it be said that it was an unfortunate 'accident'?
Take it to court - DT won't want to see his name in the SCMP "sitting in a bar late at night chatting to his pet hostey when one of the grossly overpaid pilots drops a bag of peanuts on him - an offence for which the said pilot was subsequently fired..."
Makes him look like a bit of a prat too.
Come on Ken - you can't agree with this can you??
Sorry - course you can - just keep quiet and say yessir boss.....
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The peanut man is a bit of a fool for throwing anything at your boss!! Thinking back to earlier times, some of my bosses were down right idiots, but I would never become an idiot like him and throw a peanut at him. Jees guys, this is not about AOA and contracts, if I was the boss and an employee threw a peanut at me, I would P*SS him off, and then find out why he did it.
Lets emagine a S/O throwing a peanut at a Captain in a bar, are you going to let it be? Or are you going to nail the SOB for being an A-hole?
Good bye Mr CAPT. Enjoy your pathetic Millions that you have earnt and sacrificed lifestyle for over the last 10-20 yrs and enjo your miserable retirement.I hope Cx was worth it!
[This message has been edited by ess jay (edited 06 April 2001).]
[This message has been edited by ess jay (edited 06 April 2001).]
Lets emagine a S/O throwing a peanut at a Captain in a bar, are you going to let it be? Or are you going to nail the SOB for being an A-hole?
Good bye Mr CAPT. Enjoy your pathetic Millions that you have earnt and sacrificed lifestyle for over the last 10-20 yrs and enjo your miserable retirement.I hope Cx was worth it!
[This message has been edited by ess jay (edited 06 April 2001).]
[This message has been edited by ess jay (edited 06 April 2001).]
Joined: Oct 1999
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From: bc
Just think everyone! What does the company want the aoa to do in this situation?
Hang him out to dry right? Alienate him, let him fend for himself. The company would love to see that, so lets not let it happen.
Whatever this individual deserves he will get sooner or later!
Let's not let the company drive another divisive nail into our 1500 person coffin!!
Think about this!!!
Hang him out to dry right? Alienate him, let him fend for himself. The company would love to see that, so lets not let it happen.
Whatever this individual deserves he will get sooner or later!
Let's not let the company drive another divisive nail into our 1500 person coffin!!
Think about this!!!
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SJ, you started out so well, objective, concise, just how they taught you on your office typing course and you had to end it with mindless ranting and raving. Definite management potential I’d say. If only you could develop an allergic reaction to airborne bar savouries you’d be in line for the top job....you little Office Johnny Nancy boy. (How was that ending?)
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The guy is a good operator and a nice bloke. His compliance transgression was done in a moment of weakness under pressure from his family. He knew he'd screwed up as soon as he did it and dobbed himself in to the AOA. No excuse but there are some mitigating circumstances.
His bar transgression was done in an area that is somewhat of a crew haven for relaxation in a probably semi-intoxicated state after the announcement of a dubious profit-sharing result in a year of record profits in the run-up to the third tranche of pay-cuts (which were ceded in return for negotiations into which the company still steadfastly refuses to enter in any semblance of good faith almost 2 years later) against the individual who is probably most responsible for all of the above. Again, no excuses but.... I think the punishment far exceeds the crime and is sadly a reflection of the weakness of character of the individuals involved.
We should be standing up against this as a workforce regardless of AOA position. Sadly I suspect that even if the guy was a stauch AOA member and was clearly being stitched up, we wouldn't have the collective moral fortitude to take a stand.
There are too many vested separate interests.
His bar transgression was done in an area that is somewhat of a crew haven for relaxation in a probably semi-intoxicated state after the announcement of a dubious profit-sharing result in a year of record profits in the run-up to the third tranche of pay-cuts (which were ceded in return for negotiations into which the company still steadfastly refuses to enter in any semblance of good faith almost 2 years later) against the individual who is probably most responsible for all of the above. Again, no excuses but.... I think the punishment far exceeds the crime and is sadly a reflection of the weakness of character of the individuals involved.
We should be standing up against this as a workforce regardless of AOA position. Sadly I suspect that even if the guy was a stauch AOA member and was clearly being stitched up, we wouldn't have the collective moral fortitude to take a stand.
There are too many vested separate interests.
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I don't know what the unfair dismissal laws are in HK if indeed we have any. (I suspect we don't) Our Union Sec will know. Don't forget that this farce is still under the D&G and that you can't be sacked straight away while on sick leave.
If this officer does get sacked in the end then we should all show some guts and tell DT this is wrong. The punishment far outweighs the crime and it's time giant ego's took a back seat.
If this has no effect, and I suspect with the egotistical maniac involved it won't, this matter should be broadcast all over HK via the newspapers so that the shareholders know what sort of person leads the company. It's time people asked these questions; What was behind the incident and what was this manager doing in the bar at that time of night. Doesn't he have work to do the next day? Sorry, but it's not acceptable for the senior person concerned to act in the manner he has all thing's considered.
Hand grenades are a bit over the top.... rocks will do.
[This message has been edited by Thrust (edited 10 April 2001).]
If this officer does get sacked in the end then we should all show some guts and tell DT this is wrong. The punishment far outweighs the crime and it's time giant ego's took a back seat.
If this has no effect, and I suspect with the egotistical maniac involved it won't, this matter should be broadcast all over HK via the newspapers so that the shareholders know what sort of person leads the company. It's time people asked these questions; What was behind the incident and what was this manager doing in the bar at that time of night. Doesn't he have work to do the next day? Sorry, but it's not acceptable for the senior person concerned to act in the manner he has all thing's considered.
Hand grenades are a bit over the top.... rocks will do.
[This message has been edited by Thrust (edited 10 April 2001).]
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Pilot accused of throwing nuts sacked
EXCLUSIVE by ADAM LUCK
Next Story
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Turnbull: controversial
A senior Cathay Pacific pilot was sacked after allegedly throwing nuts at the company's chief executive in a bar.
Captain Scott Munro was dismissed following a disciplinary hearing just days after David Turnbull, also Cathay Pacific's deputy chairman, accused him of showering him with nuts.
The incident is believed to have happened at the Dakota bar in Cathay's private Headland Hotel, close to Chek Lap Kok airport, late last month.
Captain Munro was seated at a table in the bar with several colleagues when the confrontation occurred, according to airline sources.
One industry insider, who preferred to remain anonymous, said: "Turnbull came in and was sitting at another table. Munro threw some monkey nuts up in the air and some landed close to Turnbull.
"Turnbull came over to the table and demanded to know the names of the men at the table to find out who had thrown them," the insider said.
After the alleged confrontation, Captain Munro was brought before a disciplinary hearing and sacked last week.
The incident has provoked widespread controversy within the company and has been the subject of intense debate on independent Web sites used by airline staff.
Mr Turnbull told the South China Morning Post: "He [Captain Munro] was dismissed for throwing things at me. We have to operate a disciplined company and you do not throw things at the chief executive."
Captain Munro, who is in his 40s, is understood to have returned to his home in Australia and is believed to be considering launching an appeal against his sacking.
Cathay's conditions of service are understood to state that employment can be terminated if an officer is found guilty of any conduct, on or off duty, which is prejudicial to the interests, good name and reputation of the airline.
Mr Turnbull has been a figure of controversy within the airline since instigating mass cutbacks in 1998 and becoming locked in a series of staff disputes.
Aircrew posting online messages were divided over the decision to dismiss Captain Munro.
One e-mailer to the aircrew Web site wrote: "Is it true someone threw peanuts at Turnbull? If so, whilst I disagree with any form of violence, one must wonder just how far morale has fallen in this company for it to happen. Where will it all end? Let's hope nothing gets broken but a few monstrous egos."
Another e-mailer wrote: "The perpetrator should have been a little wiser, especially as our contract has a clause of summary dismissal for gross insubordination."
Cathay Pacific confirmed that Captain Munro had not yet lodged an appeal.
Mr Turnbull said of the pilot's behaviour: "He's the captain of the ship. It's not what you expect of him . . . If cabin crew did that to a passenger they would be dismissed."
Alan Wong, Cathay's corporate communications general manager, said: "This is a strictly internal matter between an employee and his company.
"Like any large organisation, we have disciplinary procedures which, as in this case, have been fully above board and in line with established guidelines."
Hong Kong Aircrew Officers' Association general secretary John Findlay refused to comment.
My 2 cents worth,
1. I thought Tung was the Chief executive?
2. to all the south stand offenders at sevens last week does throwing beer, blow up sheep, and the lot create the opportunity to get you the sack?
EXCLUSIVE by ADAM LUCK
Next Story
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Turnbull: controversial
A senior Cathay Pacific pilot was sacked after allegedly throwing nuts at the company's chief executive in a bar.
Captain Scott Munro was dismissed following a disciplinary hearing just days after David Turnbull, also Cathay Pacific's deputy chairman, accused him of showering him with nuts.
The incident is believed to have happened at the Dakota bar in Cathay's private Headland Hotel, close to Chek Lap Kok airport, late last month.
Captain Munro was seated at a table in the bar with several colleagues when the confrontation occurred, according to airline sources.
One industry insider, who preferred to remain anonymous, said: "Turnbull came in and was sitting at another table. Munro threw some monkey nuts up in the air and some landed close to Turnbull.
"Turnbull came over to the table and demanded to know the names of the men at the table to find out who had thrown them," the insider said.
After the alleged confrontation, Captain Munro was brought before a disciplinary hearing and sacked last week.
The incident has provoked widespread controversy within the company and has been the subject of intense debate on independent Web sites used by airline staff.
Mr Turnbull told the South China Morning Post: "He [Captain Munro] was dismissed for throwing things at me. We have to operate a disciplined company and you do not throw things at the chief executive."
Captain Munro, who is in his 40s, is understood to have returned to his home in Australia and is believed to be considering launching an appeal against his sacking.
Cathay's conditions of service are understood to state that employment can be terminated if an officer is found guilty of any conduct, on or off duty, which is prejudicial to the interests, good name and reputation of the airline.
Mr Turnbull has been a figure of controversy within the airline since instigating mass cutbacks in 1998 and becoming locked in a series of staff disputes.
Aircrew posting online messages were divided over the decision to dismiss Captain Munro.
One e-mailer to the aircrew Web site wrote: "Is it true someone threw peanuts at Turnbull? If so, whilst I disagree with any form of violence, one must wonder just how far morale has fallen in this company for it to happen. Where will it all end? Let's hope nothing gets broken but a few monstrous egos."
Another e-mailer wrote: "The perpetrator should have been a little wiser, especially as our contract has a clause of summary dismissal for gross insubordination."
Cathay Pacific confirmed that Captain Munro had not yet lodged an appeal.
Mr Turnbull said of the pilot's behaviour: "He's the captain of the ship. It's not what you expect of him . . . If cabin crew did that to a passenger they would be dismissed."
Alan Wong, Cathay's corporate communications general manager, said: "This is a strictly internal matter between an employee and his company.
"Like any large organisation, we have disciplinary procedures which, as in this case, have been fully above board and in line with established guidelines."
Hong Kong Aircrew Officers' Association general secretary John Findlay refused to comment.
My 2 cents worth,
1. I thought Tung was the Chief executive?
2. to all the south stand offenders at sevens last week does throwing beer, blow up sheep, and the lot create the opportunity to get you the sack?
Guest
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gees, he got off really lightly, the ex cheif exec at BA, Ailing Bob, another popular character had to carry his bags with him or under another name after he found someone and dumped in his and his wife suitcase when they went to barbados on holiday. a week later a stewardess slapped him in the face after degrading her life then immediately resigned feeling happy.
Guest
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If he acted like a responsible Executive and spent more time thinking about the people under him rather than the bottom line, then his employees wouldn't feel the need to throw things at him.
His actions are like those of a playground bully, when faced with a situation that he cannot handle he hides behind his power base and fires the individual.
What about ignoring the situation and showing some class.? Just leave the bar with his dignity intact. A true leader would have resolved the issue by discussion not by abuse of power. Stupid me ! what was I thinking, he is an accountant in a position of authority , not a leader....... That's why we are in the situation that we presently find ourselves
His actions are like those of a playground bully, when faced with a situation that he cannot handle he hides behind his power base and fires the individual.
What about ignoring the situation and showing some class.? Just leave the bar with his dignity intact. A true leader would have resolved the issue by discussion not by abuse of power. Stupid me ! what was I thinking, he is an accountant in a position of authority , not a leader....... That's why we are in the situation that we presently find ourselves