The 49ers and Related Issues(Merged)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: London
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not just talking money here. The carriers I mentioned do not, to my knowledge have thier employees live in fear of the sack. That is worth an awful lot which the package cannot compensate you for.
Geldap
I have never lived in fear of losing my job.
In order to achieve that level of comfort, I have followed some simple rules:
- Go to work when rostered
- Call in sick only when I think I would be dangerous
- Treat all CX staff with respect
These basic rules are commonsense but also allow one a voice on issues of contention. I have never been punished or treated adversely for voicing my opinions on some of the ****e that comes out of Kitty City.
I am not sure whether the same level of criticism, however constructive, would be tolerated at Emirates, Etihad, Qantas or whichever other airline you quote.
Any airline is so so much more than its pilots. If we all realised as much, we would find that our fellow employees and even managers would give us the respect we think we deserve.
I have never lived in fear of losing my job.
In order to achieve that level of comfort, I have followed some simple rules:
- Go to work when rostered
- Call in sick only when I think I would be dangerous
- Treat all CX staff with respect
These basic rules are commonsense but also allow one a voice on issues of contention. I have never been punished or treated adversely for voicing my opinions on some of the ****e that comes out of Kitty City.
I am not sure whether the same level of criticism, however constructive, would be tolerated at Emirates, Etihad, Qantas or whichever other airline you quote.
Any airline is so so much more than its pilots. If we all realised as much, we would find that our fellow employees and even managers would give us the respect we think we deserve.
Some of these postings reveal a huge difference between the views of current employees and the views of retirees who only saw the good times at CX.
Having had the pleasure of serving under PS (God bless his soul) and subsequently enduring the absolute horror of a totalitarian management by some “poor excuses for human beings” that followed, I can appreciate the lack of comprehension and empathy between some of the current and past employees.
Things have taken a major downhill slide in terms of management integrity, respect for staff and other “slippery dealings” since 1993. Even the Courts of Hong Kong are now starting to side with CX employees as witnessed in a recent ruling that CX management had illegally taken away pay increments from the cabin crew.
As difficult as it might be for some of our retirees to fathom, it is now an unfortunate fact that strong Unions are absolute necessities to keep this tyrannical management in check.
Having had the pleasure of serving under PS (God bless his soul) and subsequently enduring the absolute horror of a totalitarian management by some “poor excuses for human beings” that followed, I can appreciate the lack of comprehension and empathy between some of the current and past employees.
Things have taken a major downhill slide in terms of management integrity, respect for staff and other “slippery dealings” since 1993. Even the Courts of Hong Kong are now starting to side with CX employees as witnessed in a recent ruling that CX management had illegally taken away pay increments from the cabin crew.
As difficult as it might be for some of our retirees to fathom, it is now an unfortunate fact that strong Unions are absolute necessities to keep this tyrannical management in check.
FR
I am not a retiree.
I suspect, if you remember the open cheque book days of PS, we are of the same vintage.
Sorry but I do not share your view of subsequent management integrity.
Just goes to show that 2 folk of common background have a different takeaway....but therein lies the beauty and strength of CX.
The best interests of the flight crew of this company can ONLY be protected by getting a seat at the table. I am sorry to say, that can never be done via an aggressive UNION.
Disclaimer:
NO management role.
I am not a retiree.
I suspect, if you remember the open cheque book days of PS, we are of the same vintage.
Sorry but I do not share your view of subsequent management integrity.
Just goes to show that 2 folk of common background have a different takeaway....but therein lies the beauty and strength of CX.
The best interests of the flight crew of this company can ONLY be protected by getting a seat at the table. I am sorry to say, that can never be done via an aggressive UNION.
Disclaimer:
NO management role.
Last edited by VR-HFX; 12th May 2005 at 13:02.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The British part of the EU
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
VR-HFX, you seem to forget that the good times under PS were an exact reflection of the work done by the union, of which I was part. The original 5-4-3 rostering etc. were all the result of hard work on both sides negotiating in GOOD FAITH with each other. As for the A scales, they were a direct result of everyone in the union pulling together with complete solidarity for a better deal than the management were offering....which resulted in the then DFO MH, COMING TO THE EGM to tell us how the company was going to satisfy our needs in both pay and benefits.
The advent of B scales followed by ASL were the beginning of the rot, with a continual 'take it or leave it' attitude from the management side.
What you have left now is the ruins of what was in the '80s and early '90s a relatively cordial and at least respectful relationship between union and management, brought about by both commercial circumstances and the availability of pilots, but also the sheer bad faith and intransigence of the personell on the management side.
The advent of B scales followed by ASL were the beginning of the rot, with a continual 'take it or leave it' attitude from the management side.
What you have left now is the ruins of what was in the '80s and early '90s a relatively cordial and at least respectful relationship between union and management, brought about by both commercial circumstances and the availability of pilots, but also the sheer bad faith and intransigence of the personell on the management side.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bit of a red herring going on here. Sure PS was a gent and a real people person. Sure I miss his cocktail parties and such. However, who employed RE and BS to start the 'new way', who was Chairman at the time and for a long time after? I am with HFX on this one, there is bu..er all difference between the middle and senior level managers then and now, they all just do as they are told. IM less then HO it was the AOA who changed tactics not FOPS management.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: up here, everyone looks like ants!
Posts: 966
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Shorts, you either have advanced Alheimers or a very selective memory.
Do you forget the "no money in freight" B-S that GC handed out?
Do you forget the "sign or be fired" compliments of KB?
Do you forget the "big dipper" lie touted by VH?
Did you not have the "new contract" trauma?
Have you been insulated from the constant erosion of our COS?
Are you still on 76 hours, perchance?
Do you still have the 1 week NCL everyone else lost?
Are you unaware of the 19 (count 'em) different COS's in force?
Are you going to claim that Freehills was an AOA conspiracy theory?
Are you also going to claim that the 51 "deserved it"?
Go and take another puff of whatever it is you're smoking. You're not only part of the B-S, you're their Goebbels.
Do you forget the "no money in freight" B-S that GC handed out?
Do you forget the "sign or be fired" compliments of KB?
Do you forget the "big dipper" lie touted by VH?
Did you not have the "new contract" trauma?
Have you been insulated from the constant erosion of our COS?
Are you still on 76 hours, perchance?
Do you still have the 1 week NCL everyone else lost?
Are you unaware of the 19 (count 'em) different COS's in force?
Are you going to claim that Freehills was an AOA conspiracy theory?
Are you also going to claim that the 51 "deserved it"?
IM less then HO it was the AOA who changed tactics not FOPS management.
Last edited by Cpt. Underpants; 13th May 2005 at 11:32.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: up here, everyone looks like ants!
Posts: 966
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Wiz
I did say 51 - the number that were originally fired. If you really had your nuts in one bag, you should be suggesting that the 49 were "desserted" by the AOA. Do your homework and stop playing on mummy's computer.
I did say 51 - the number that were originally fired. If you really had your nuts in one bag, you should be suggesting that the 49 were "desserted" by the AOA. Do your homework and stop playing on mummy's computer.
Capt U,
Gee, sorry, two too many betrayed pilots and one too many "S"s.
But didn't you vocally defend the HKAOA in their useless, immoral recruitment ban, and now seem to be defending them after they have cut your friends adrift?
If Shorts is a Goebbels, you're doing a very good Neville Chamberlain!!
Gee, sorry, two too many betrayed pilots and one too many "S"s.
But didn't you vocally defend the HKAOA in their useless, immoral recruitment ban, and now seem to be defending them after they have cut your friends adrift?
If Shorts is a Goebbels, you're doing a very good Neville Chamberlain!!
Last edited by Wizofoz; 14th May 2005 at 08:32.
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. -Voltaire
Guest
Posts: n/a
There comes a time when it is best to move on, and whilst this issue remains alive it is to the detriment of all and the benefit of none. I am sure those who have lost their jobs feel agrieved at the way they have been treated by both the company and by the AoA and to some the settlement, either by way of finance or the possibility to resume employment will never heal the scars left by this sorry affair, however, equally to continue with the court action will not achieve any satisfaction either, just prolong the bitter taste............................
Sorry, but the time to move along has come, nothing to be gained here but angst and bitterness, you will neither topple Cx nor those against whom you hold a grievence ,but time, the great healer of all wrongs will surely bring opportunity your way and those who step on your hands whilst climbing the ladder will usually find the compliment returned at some point in time, maybe not in the way you expect will justice be delivered, but it invariably is !!!!
Sorry, but the time to move along has come, nothing to be gained here but angst and bitterness, you will neither topple Cx nor those against whom you hold a grievence ,but time, the great healer of all wrongs will surely bring opportunity your way and those who step on your hands whilst climbing the ladder will usually find the compliment returned at some point in time, maybe not in the way you expect will justice be delivered, but it invariably is !!!!
Hangin'On
I do indeed remember the PS days...and very fondly.
And Halcyon Days they were ... being made to feel and believe one was worth a small ransom. We were indeed the Hardy Boys, if you will excuse me bringing the Groupie's name into things again.
But one should put those days into the context of high growth off a small base and a perception in management that the situation in HK worked against attracting large numbers of quality aircrew to man the growth. Money was the simplest opiate to solve the problem. Agreed by AS and offered by PS. Shortly summed up the next step very well.
Whilst I agree the AOA played its part, your choice of words is prophetic. The reality is, they satisfied our 'needs' not responded to our demands. The good faith you refer to was a result of the company being in a position to accede to everything asked of it.
Swire management culture has not really changed. The owner of the train set remains the same.
The only thing that has changed is the tail thought it could go on wagging the dog when the ground shifted, as long as it became intransigent enough.
History is one thing. How one interprets it is quite another.
Best wishes.
I do indeed remember the PS days...and very fondly.
And Halcyon Days they were ... being made to feel and believe one was worth a small ransom. We were indeed the Hardy Boys, if you will excuse me bringing the Groupie's name into things again.
But one should put those days into the context of high growth off a small base and a perception in management that the situation in HK worked against attracting large numbers of quality aircrew to man the growth. Money was the simplest opiate to solve the problem. Agreed by AS and offered by PS. Shortly summed up the next step very well.
Whilst I agree the AOA played its part, your choice of words is prophetic. The reality is, they satisfied our 'needs' not responded to our demands. The good faith you refer to was a result of the company being in a position to accede to everything asked of it.
Swire management culture has not really changed. The owner of the train set remains the same.
The only thing that has changed is the tail thought it could go on wagging the dog when the ground shifted, as long as it became intransigent enough.
History is one thing. How one interprets it is quite another.
Best wishes.
Last edited by VR-HFX; 18th May 2005 at 15:14.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Flagrant Harbour
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why would one want to join/rejoin an organisation that costs a lot of money and is TOTALLY ineffective. And in hindsight has always been so. The only useful function was the videos club.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Over There
Posts: 740
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have to agree with 7FF. A rejoining fee? Sounds like a good reason not to rejoin the AOA to me. I'm not paying a penalty, fine or anything else because I was once a member a long time ago. Anything more than the normal joining fee is punitive and it won't wash.