The 49ers and Related Issues(Merged)
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I would say it took a lot of backbone for the union to stand together and support the guys that were sacked.
You had newly employed second officers pitching in to support far senior guys. Talk about loyalty. What can possibly be wrong with that?
That some guys could perhaps have done without the money is beyond the point, as is if some "deserved" the sack.
You had newly employed second officers pitching in to support far senior guys. Talk about loyalty. What can possibly be wrong with that?
That some guys could perhaps have done without the money is beyond the point, as is if some "deserved" the sack.
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6 feet etc
I do not work for CX.
I do not think someone is a moron if he/she does work at CX.
Oh I see what you mean
Thank you for your comments.
It made me quite miss the good old days when unbridled vitriol was directed at any dissenter, although I must say the insults in those days were rather more imaginative.
I do not work for CX.
I do not think someone is a moron if he/she does work at CX.
Oh I see what you mean
Thank you for your comments.
It made me quite miss the good old days when unbridled vitriol was directed at any dissenter, although I must say the insults in those days were rather more imaginative.
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I would say it took a lot of backbone for the union to stand together and support the guys that were sacked.
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Difficult to discuss this issue without lapsing into ill considered remarks and accusations. But you cannot, by any possible form of words, express the blundering, the delay, the confusion and the stupidity of it all. It has accomplished nothing other than to prove that it is pointless to belong to a union at Cathay Pacific. And when the dust settles the AOA will be seen as a toothless debating society that cannot look after the interests of its members even when they are dismissed with no proper disciplinary process. And perhaps it took the company 4 to 5 years to bust the union, but in effect that is what it has done. Why would anyone want to be part of this ineffectual group?
Last edited by kenfoggo; 6th May 2005 at 06:35.
Ken
Indeed..glad to see that reality is finally dawning.
It all started when the AOA began to get a major testosterone flush and employed people who were in a time and place warp. Net result...they lost their place at the top table.
MG is doing his best to restore some balance ... wrong word ... but the old tarts n farts will know what I mean.
We should have appointed Michael (just retired from the Aero Club after 38 years) as General Secretary about 20 years ago!
Indeed..glad to see that reality is finally dawning.
It all started when the AOA began to get a major testosterone flush and employed people who were in a time and place warp. Net result...they lost their place at the top table.
MG is doing his best to restore some balance ... wrong word ... but the old tarts n farts will know what I mean.
We should have appointed Michael (just retired from the Aero Club after 38 years) as General Secretary about 20 years ago!
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VR-HFX
Amen to that
Hopefully better days are ahead.
IMHO, in the current climate, the AOA needs to be focussed on the present and the future, rather than the past, for that is where possible discomforts may appear
Amen to that
Hopefully better days are ahead.
IMHO, in the current climate, the AOA needs to be focussed on the present and the future, rather than the past, for that is where possible discomforts may appear
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As pilots, we sometimes stuff up.
A decision that is not the best, or a bad approach. Sometimes this happens in the sim or on a line check. There are many factors such as being tired or out of practice, but it happens.
When a stuff up occurs good pilots dwell on the situation for only a very brief time, then get on with the flight which is still going at 470 kts and using fuel at 6+ tonnes/hour. They dig themselves out of the hole. We all know pilots who dwell too long on previous decisions and have careers that have stalled. They live in the past and don't look forward to the future.
After the flight is over, the important thing is to analyze our stuff up, learn from it, and make sure we don't do it again.
1989 and the 49ers were stuff ups. The important thing is to analyze and make sure similar situations do not happen again.
CX pilots need a strong union. The company will always do what it wants to in the end, but a strong union can influence the final decision. A union does this by pointing out inconsistancies in any company proposal and proposing alternative points of view that company management may not have considered. Like a good Opposition Party in a democracy.
The HKAOA at the moment is not a strong union. Less than half of CX pilots are members. This has to change back to where over 90% are members.
Previously black-banned CX pilots should be actively encouraged to join the HKAOA. CX pilots who have resigned over the past 4 years should be actively encouraged to re-join. Both groups should be welcomed and encouraged to join the HKAOA without any penalty or animosity. Perhaps then other non-members may also feel inclined to join the HKAOA.
CX pilots need a strong union. One that has learned from its mistakes and is looking forward to the future.
A decision that is not the best, or a bad approach. Sometimes this happens in the sim or on a line check. There are many factors such as being tired or out of practice, but it happens.
When a stuff up occurs good pilots dwell on the situation for only a very brief time, then get on with the flight which is still going at 470 kts and using fuel at 6+ tonnes/hour. They dig themselves out of the hole. We all know pilots who dwell too long on previous decisions and have careers that have stalled. They live in the past and don't look forward to the future.
After the flight is over, the important thing is to analyze our stuff up, learn from it, and make sure we don't do it again.
1989 and the 49ers were stuff ups. The important thing is to analyze and make sure similar situations do not happen again.
CX pilots need a strong union. The company will always do what it wants to in the end, but a strong union can influence the final decision. A union does this by pointing out inconsistancies in any company proposal and proposing alternative points of view that company management may not have considered. Like a good Opposition Party in a democracy.
The HKAOA at the moment is not a strong union. Less than half of CX pilots are members. This has to change back to where over 90% are members.
Previously black-banned CX pilots should be actively encouraged to join the HKAOA. CX pilots who have resigned over the past 4 years should be actively encouraged to re-join. Both groups should be welcomed and encouraged to join the HKAOA without any penalty or animosity. Perhaps then other non-members may also feel inclined to join the HKAOA.
CX pilots need a strong union. One that has learned from its mistakes and is looking forward to the future.
The extent to which the HKAOA has been successful in recent times is debatable depending on one’s viewpoint. However, it is acknowledged that CX management was finally forced to seek a settlement with the HKAOA over management’s action in sacking the 49ers. On the other hand it is acknowledged that the settlement fell well short of the expectations of the members of the HKAOA.
In a large company, a strong Union is essential to protect and further the interests of its members and in particular, protect the otherwise defenseless individual worker against the abuse of power and other excesses of management.
In this context, it is interesting to consider Gorgophone’s post on “O’Leary going to Jail” in the Rumours & News Forum:
Gorgophone
(My highlight)
In a large company, a strong Union is essential to protect and further the interests of its members and in particular, protect the otherwise defenseless individual worker against the abuse of power and other excesses of management.
In this context, it is interesting to consider Gorgophone’s post on “O’Leary going to Jail” in the Rumours & News Forum:
Gorgophone
The actual quote, I believe, is from the report into the Air Ontario Crash at Dryden some time ago.
----------------------------------------------
Sorry, I should have said. Yes you are right Cargo Boy. (Are you older than your name suggests?)
Moshansky, Virgil P. Commissioner (1992) Commission of the Inquiry Into the Air Ontario Crash at Dryden, Ontario, Fifth Report, Volume III, page 1090.
They are the words of Dr. Helmreich. I wish the rest of that post had also been by Helmreich - the bit that suggested that CRM should mean CORPORATE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT!
The bit that goes, "I would say further to this, that human nature is such that managers who are out of their depth WILL resort to bullying and coercion; a poor corporate culture WILL develop. " comes from a working knowledge of psychodynamics of organizations. Does anyone remember the experiment at Yale where people were asked to give electric shocks to 'learners'? (Milgram, Stanley. (1974) Obedience to Authority. Tavistock Publications)
The 'learners' turned out to be actors who 'screamed in agony' while the real subjects of the experiment, those giving the 'electric shocks', continued to 'harm' the actors to the point of giving them heart attacks. Conclusion? Normal people will harm others if they think they are being obedient to those in authority. "I was just following orders..." is an example of that.
Remember - more people have died because of those following orders than those who opposed them.
Managers WILL send pilots to fly when they are fatigued and coerce even more work out of pilots - even if it means risking their lives. They do this to please those in authority over them. They are not deliberately being murderous. This is the chilling fact; this behaviour is normal.
That is why we need an enlightened, proactive, Regulator, not merely a commercially-focussed enterprise that merely relies on market forces. Market forces (with concomitant organizational psychodynamics) can kill.
----------------------------------------------
Sorry, I should have said. Yes you are right Cargo Boy. (Are you older than your name suggests?)
Moshansky, Virgil P. Commissioner (1992) Commission of the Inquiry Into the Air Ontario Crash at Dryden, Ontario, Fifth Report, Volume III, page 1090.
They are the words of Dr. Helmreich. I wish the rest of that post had also been by Helmreich - the bit that suggested that CRM should mean CORPORATE RESOURCE MANAGEMENT!
The bit that goes, "I would say further to this, that human nature is such that managers who are out of their depth WILL resort to bullying and coercion; a poor corporate culture WILL develop. " comes from a working knowledge of psychodynamics of organizations. Does anyone remember the experiment at Yale where people were asked to give electric shocks to 'learners'? (Milgram, Stanley. (1974) Obedience to Authority. Tavistock Publications)
The 'learners' turned out to be actors who 'screamed in agony' while the real subjects of the experiment, those giving the 'electric shocks', continued to 'harm' the actors to the point of giving them heart attacks. Conclusion? Normal people will harm others if they think they are being obedient to those in authority. "I was just following orders..." is an example of that.
Remember - more people have died because of those following orders than those who opposed them.
Managers WILL send pilots to fly when they are fatigued and coerce even more work out of pilots - even if it means risking their lives. They do this to please those in authority over them. They are not deliberately being murderous. This is the chilling fact; this behaviour is normal.
That is why we need an enlightened, proactive, Regulator, not merely a commercially-focussed enterprise that merely relies on market forces. Market forces (with concomitant organizational psychodynamics) can kill.
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CPX,
I totally agree. All should be invited to join the HKAOA including ASL pilots. Ban joiners, re-joiners included. The real enemies are the 30-50 radicals that have such hatred and resentment in their hearts.
Maybe they should quit and join the CPU?
I totally agree. All should be invited to join the HKAOA including ASL pilots. Ban joiners, re-joiners included. The real enemies are the 30-50 radicals that have such hatred and resentment in their hearts.
Maybe they should quit and join the CPU?
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You stand up for what is honorable you’re a radical. If you resign from the HKAOA you’re a militant.
Cpdude, you think you’re invulnerable. Sounds like management. I am sure all the people you mentioned will get to join the AOA and they will be regarded as heroes and the people that recently quit, you/CX will consider them “Terrorist”. Not quite saying the word, but I think that is what you are implying.
You will be quite happy with those types, AOA members in good times and deserters in bad times.
If you want the real enemy, look within.
So am I a revolutionary for my postings? Am I part of the 30-50? Do you include the 41 of the 49ers that said no? Do I have hatred in my heart? With all the world events, I don’t think you know the meaning of the word or you use such a strong word without regard.
Everybody that voted no/don’t want ASL/do not want the ban breakers are militants?
Are you implying that these 30-50, with hatred in their hearts, should be fired? Should they dismiss the whole CPU?
With regard to the CPX's statement, I will be considered a ghastly pilot.
Cpdude, you think you’re invulnerable. Sounds like management. I am sure all the people you mentioned will get to join the AOA and they will be regarded as heroes and the people that recently quit, you/CX will consider them “Terrorist”. Not quite saying the word, but I think that is what you are implying.
You will be quite happy with those types, AOA members in good times and deserters in bad times.
If you want the real enemy, look within.
So am I a revolutionary for my postings? Am I part of the 30-50? Do you include the 41 of the 49ers that said no? Do I have hatred in my heart? With all the world events, I don’t think you know the meaning of the word or you use such a strong word without regard.
Everybody that voted no/don’t want ASL/do not want the ban breakers are militants?
Are you implying that these 30-50, with hatred in their hearts, should be fired? Should they dismiss the whole CPU?
With regard to the CPX's statement, I will be considered a ghastly pilot.
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Mr. Beaver,
You stand up for what is honorable you’re a radical. If you resign from the HKAOA you’re a militant.
Your ship sank...join the new crew or leave! If you stay without changing your attitude, then your a militant.
Cpdude, you think you’re invulnerable. Sounds like management. I am sure all the people you mentioned will get to join the AOA and they will be regarded as heroes and the people that recently quit, you/CX will consider them “Terrorist”. Not quite saying the word, but I think that is what you are implying.
There are no heroes but I find it somewhat amusing that you refer to yourself as a "Terrorist".
You will be quite happy with those types, AOA members in good times and deserters in bad times.
So your sailing adrift with an irrational Captain at the helm...you say I should stick with him...I say I'm smarter than that! I'm surprised he didn't get more people fired or cause greater damage to our COS.
So am I a revolutionary for my postings? Am I part of the 30-50? Do you include the 41 of the 49ers that said no? Do I have hatred in my heart? With all the world events, I don’t think you know the meaning of the word or you use such a strong word without regard.
If I was a 49er I would have said no as well. Why turn down a cost free lawsuit? As for the radicals, I have seen the hatred they have displayed in the past to new joiners, freighter pilots and anyone who opposes them. Sure it has toned down but I'm sure the resentment is still there.
Everybody that voted no/don’t want ASL/do not want the ban breakers are militants?
Militant? Possibly not but they sure do have a narrow focus on life and how to achieve results.
Should they dismiss the whole CPU?
The CPU is a joke. It will dismiss itself from a lack of participants.
With regard to the CPX's statement, I will be considered a ghastly pilot.
Then maybe you should resign before you are justly fired.
You stand up for what is honorable you’re a radical. If you resign from the HKAOA you’re a militant.
Your ship sank...join the new crew or leave! If you stay without changing your attitude, then your a militant.
Cpdude, you think you’re invulnerable. Sounds like management. I am sure all the people you mentioned will get to join the AOA and they will be regarded as heroes and the people that recently quit, you/CX will consider them “Terrorist”. Not quite saying the word, but I think that is what you are implying.
There are no heroes but I find it somewhat amusing that you refer to yourself as a "Terrorist".
You will be quite happy with those types, AOA members in good times and deserters in bad times.
So your sailing adrift with an irrational Captain at the helm...you say I should stick with him...I say I'm smarter than that! I'm surprised he didn't get more people fired or cause greater damage to our COS.
So am I a revolutionary for my postings? Am I part of the 30-50? Do you include the 41 of the 49ers that said no? Do I have hatred in my heart? With all the world events, I don’t think you know the meaning of the word or you use such a strong word without regard.
If I was a 49er I would have said no as well. Why turn down a cost free lawsuit? As for the radicals, I have seen the hatred they have displayed in the past to new joiners, freighter pilots and anyone who opposes them. Sure it has toned down but I'm sure the resentment is still there.
Everybody that voted no/don’t want ASL/do not want the ban breakers are militants?
Militant? Possibly not but they sure do have a narrow focus on life and how to achieve results.
Should they dismiss the whole CPU?
The CPU is a joke. It will dismiss itself from a lack of participants.
With regard to the CPX's statement, I will be considered a ghastly pilot.
Then maybe you should resign before you are justly fired.
Your Union is you. Without a strong Union, you do not exist.
If you leave your Union over a defeat in one battle then you have signed a guarantee to lose the whole war.
If you leave your Union, management have hoodwinked you and they will have indeed won.
Stay the course and let’s go away and lick our wounds. If we learn from our failures, we will emerge as a stronger Union.
If you leave your Union over a defeat in one battle then you have signed a guarantee to lose the whole war.
If you leave your Union, management have hoodwinked you and they will have indeed won.
Stay the course and let’s go away and lick our wounds. If we learn from our failures, we will emerge as a stronger Union.
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Silberfuchs,
I actually agree with you however, this was not about losing a vote but the entire direction of the committee. It was hell or high water for the members on the committee and they were not listening. The war drums were banging and you were either with them or against them and so I walked. Should I have stayed in a group out of control that I neither trusted or supported...I think not!
Turbo Beaver,
Your either drunk or your a child...go away!
FR,
In normal times I agree with you. But like I said above, this was not a simple vote and many were not sure how many more would be fired for following the union advice. I love my job and I will not sacrifice it for anyone. That said, if and when I don't love my job any longer, I will leave the company unlike others that stay and fester like a cancer throughout the ranks.
Lastly, I think I speak for many that feel a strong union is necessary. But strong means a clear majority of members with an executive that negotiates fairly and competently with the objective of building good working relations with the company and voicing the concerns of the members in a firm but diplomatic fashion. We are not looking at destroying the company which provides for our well-being but to compromise in a fashion which moderates the changes taking place in this industry so the impact to us is softened.
The younger crowd must accept that the conditions of service and salaries of the 80’s will never return but we do have some bargaining chips like the age 60 issue. Best we use it before we lose it!
I actually agree with you however, this was not about losing a vote but the entire direction of the committee. It was hell or high water for the members on the committee and they were not listening. The war drums were banging and you were either with them or against them and so I walked. Should I have stayed in a group out of control that I neither trusted or supported...I think not!
Turbo Beaver,
Your either drunk or your a child...go away!
FR,
In normal times I agree with you. But like I said above, this was not a simple vote and many were not sure how many more would be fired for following the union advice. I love my job and I will not sacrifice it for anyone. That said, if and when I don't love my job any longer, I will leave the company unlike others that stay and fester like a cancer throughout the ranks.
Lastly, I think I speak for many that feel a strong union is necessary. But strong means a clear majority of members with an executive that negotiates fairly and competently with the objective of building good working relations with the company and voicing the concerns of the members in a firm but diplomatic fashion. We are not looking at destroying the company which provides for our well-being but to compromise in a fashion which moderates the changes taking place in this industry so the impact to us is softened.
The younger crowd must accept that the conditions of service and salaries of the 80’s will never return but we do have some bargaining chips like the age 60 issue. Best we use it before we lose it!
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Good God, it seems that with all the infighting it is completely forgotton how this all started. By this particular company's disgracefull lack of regard or decency for members of thier own staff. One common thread in these arguments seems to be a consensus that there are plenty of sackings for those not prepared to jump through hoops for "management" - be they right or wrong, how can this be anything but wrong?
In my oinion, the amount of sackings from CX is disproportional to the size if the company. I believe the self proclaimed high standards and claims of being the best are precisely to divert attention away from the truth "oh yes he did not meet our extremely high standards so he had to go" when a more proper explanation may well be "oh yes he spoke out about..........so he had to go"
Even the people who defend the ethos admit to the wrong doing by CX but are too afraid to speak. This is how things are in China so maybe if CX wishes to treat people like this they should stick to operations within China - the western world does not wish the rights of Chinese enforced on their workers IMHO.
I always thought that a trade union was there to improve the rights of workers, defend against unfair treatment and unfair dismissal at work. The AOA seems not to be in existance to fulfill these needs. It appears to an outsider like me that it is a club that is there for the betterment of a select few. If people suffer detriment such as the 49ers the "union" should do all possible to defend and protect them, no matter how long it takes, otherwise it has failed to function as a union.
The people who voted to dump the 49ers should be ashamed of themselves - you have voted for yourselves not them. CX will of course know that the union is a pushover and has succeded in breaking it due to members not having the courage of their convictions.
I hope those pilots left in the AOA who voted to continue your club without your colleagues and have their perfect little careers still in tact sleep easy - I know I wouldn't.
In my oinion, the amount of sackings from CX is disproportional to the size if the company. I believe the self proclaimed high standards and claims of being the best are precisely to divert attention away from the truth "oh yes he did not meet our extremely high standards so he had to go" when a more proper explanation may well be "oh yes he spoke out about..........so he had to go"
Even the people who defend the ethos admit to the wrong doing by CX but are too afraid to speak. This is how things are in China so maybe if CX wishes to treat people like this they should stick to operations within China - the western world does not wish the rights of Chinese enforced on their workers IMHO.
I always thought that a trade union was there to improve the rights of workers, defend against unfair treatment and unfair dismissal at work. The AOA seems not to be in existance to fulfill these needs. It appears to an outsider like me that it is a club that is there for the betterment of a select few. If people suffer detriment such as the 49ers the "union" should do all possible to defend and protect them, no matter how long it takes, otherwise it has failed to function as a union.
The people who voted to dump the 49ers should be ashamed of themselves - you have voted for yourselves not them. CX will of course know that the union is a pushover and has succeded in breaking it due to members not having the courage of their convictions.
I hope those pilots left in the AOA who voted to continue your club without your colleagues and have their perfect little careers still in tact sleep easy - I know I wouldn't.
Last edited by geldap; 9th May 2005 at 19:33.
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Mr. Dude:
I am not a child nor am I drunk. Hitting a nerve me thinks.
Didn’t think you were in the union.
The management can be unscrupulous i.e. the recent Cabin Crew fiasco and of course the firing or the 49ers. I believe it is wrong. Why do you consider me a Terrorist/Militant etc? Only management has that hatred for people.
I too want CX to succeed. There are many ways we can do that, but CX management wants total control. How much input do you have with you’re roster? In order for the best outcome there has to be give and take. Seems all the giving is on the AOA and the taking on the Company. You really sound like a manager.
CX do not negotiate fairly. Look at the Cabin Crew. Was that fair? It was wrong what they did and the FAU took them to court and won. Are the Cabin Crew Terrorist/Militants? No, they are fighting for what is right.
It is you that should go away!!
By the way, that Ship Captain, was his name Shackleton?
I am not a child nor am I drunk. Hitting a nerve me thinks.
Didn’t think you were in the union.
The management can be unscrupulous i.e. the recent Cabin Crew fiasco and of course the firing or the 49ers. I believe it is wrong. Why do you consider me a Terrorist/Militant etc? Only management has that hatred for people.
I too want CX to succeed. There are many ways we can do that, but CX management wants total control. How much input do you have with you’re roster? In order for the best outcome there has to be give and take. Seems all the giving is on the AOA and the taking on the Company. You really sound like a manager.
CX do not negotiate fairly. Look at the Cabin Crew. Was that fair? It was wrong what they did and the FAU took them to court and won. Are the Cabin Crew Terrorist/Militants? No, they are fighting for what is right.
It is you that should go away!!
By the way, that Ship Captain, was his name Shackleton?
I tend to concur with CPDude whilst agreeing in part with the Silver Fox.
I joined the AOA when it was an Association...being an organisation of persons having a common interest..albeit some of whom were somewhat eccentric. That common interest was shared by most and allowed us to have an input into the company's thought processes and policies.
It then added the words...
... and defined itself as an organisation of WORKERS formed for the purpose of advancing its members interests in respect to wages, benefits and working conditions through collective ACTION..and to hell with whomever got in their way.
It then employed union muscle, if not intellect, in a jurisdiction which immediately rendered it an oxymoron.
Management turned off the lights and the UNION turned on any dissenting members in it's continued search for fresh meat
And now some of you have the gall to criticise those that left.
My question is why would any sane person pay good money to be insulted by an organisation hell bent on destroying itself and insulting the intellect of those who dared to criticise it. I have far greater access to management (and I'm not one) than ever I could through the UNION.
I have disagreements with policy but can see clearly that a lot of it is due to the combatative state of relations with flight crew.
Sure I have issues with management policies but feel that my input is sought and often listened to.
The cabin crew have their own issues and my sympathy but they too let the militants destroy their bridge to the policy table.
CX is not our train set and I will say again, more can be gained by constructive dialogue...and removing the second line from the AOA logo would go a long way to restoring a good working relationship with influence.
For all those that pine for a genuine union...Air Canada, Qantas and BA offer a limited window.
Otherwise get real. Terms and conditions in this industry will never be what they were 25 years ago but I challenge any of you to name an airline that you could join tomorrow on better conditions.
CX, like HK, is far from perfect but most of the alternatives are further.
I joined the AOA when it was an Association...being an organisation of persons having a common interest..albeit some of whom were somewhat eccentric. That common interest was shared by most and allowed us to have an input into the company's thought processes and policies.
It then added the words...
The Registered Trade Union of the Pilots and Flight Engineers of Cathay Pacific Airways
It then employed union muscle, if not intellect, in a jurisdiction which immediately rendered it an oxymoron.
Management turned off the lights and the UNION turned on any dissenting members in it's continued search for fresh meat
And now some of you have the gall to criticise those that left.
My question is why would any sane person pay good money to be insulted by an organisation hell bent on destroying itself and insulting the intellect of those who dared to criticise it. I have far greater access to management (and I'm not one) than ever I could through the UNION.
I have disagreements with policy but can see clearly that a lot of it is due to the combatative state of relations with flight crew.
Sure I have issues with management policies but feel that my input is sought and often listened to.
The cabin crew have their own issues and my sympathy but they too let the militants destroy their bridge to the policy table.
CX is not our train set and I will say again, more can be gained by constructive dialogue...and removing the second line from the AOA logo would go a long way to restoring a good working relationship with influence.
For all those that pine for a genuine union...Air Canada, Qantas and BA offer a limited window.
Otherwise get real. Terms and conditions in this industry will never be what they were 25 years ago but I challenge any of you to name an airline that you could join tomorrow on better conditions.
CX, like HK, is far from perfect but most of the alternatives are further.
Last edited by VR-HFX; 10th May 2005 at 14:55.
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I challenge you to name an airline with better conditions
I am not a pilot but an engineer, better conditions of employment, generally can be found at British Aiways, Virgin Atlantic (through personal experience) American, United, Etihad, Emirates, British Midland Quantas and Air New Zealand to name but a few. Why ? Because they are managed by people (some less than perfect) and not corporate clones who cannot manage so bully, IMHO. Lets face it - the abuses of staff at CX comes from the top down (again just my humble opinion)!!
I am not a pilot but an engineer, better conditions of employment, generally can be found at British Aiways, Virgin Atlantic (through personal experience) American, United, Etihad, Emirates, British Midland Quantas and Air New Zealand to name but a few. Why ? Because they are managed by people (some less than perfect) and not corporate clones who cannot manage so bully, IMHO. Lets face it - the abuses of staff at CX comes from the top down (again just my humble opinion)!!
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Virgin ? British Midland ? Ethidad ? Emirates ? you are 'avin' a larf son, Not one comes close to Cathay for Lifestyle, terms & Conditions etc etc...................Sorry, But it used to be that the American Majors (United) etc were top of the tree, but not any more U.N.I.T.E.D......soon to be a low cost carrier called TED as one employee said, thats what you get when U n I have gone !!!
FEDEX/UPS yes still cream jobs but Asian carriers are the future and Cathay, well, is simply out front. The glory days over large salary's are gone but CX still beats the others, even on D scales
Union here? yes crap but at least they are beginning to get their S##t together and work with the company....................................................
Bad management??? Take a look at US airways or ask their ex employee's.......................everything here in the Hong Kong garden may not be rosy but at least it's all growing !!!
FEDEX/UPS yes still cream jobs but Asian carriers are the future and Cathay, well, is simply out front. The glory days over large salary's are gone but CX still beats the others, even on D scales
Union here? yes crap but at least they are beginning to get their S##t together and work with the company....................................................
Bad management??? Take a look at US airways or ask their ex employee's.......................everything here in the Hong Kong garden may not be rosy but at least it's all growing !!!