CDG-french speaking
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CDG-french speaking
HY! One question: Why do you ,at CDG airport,and not only ,insist on speaking french,not only on the ground but also in the air? It is very
difficult sometime to try and listen all the french and english mixture,without getting a headeache.I understand french ,but all this french ,english,french ,english ...I tell you,it's not safe!
Everybody can make mistakes,and by making sure that all the pilots and atc's speak the same language you can avoid many of this mistakes.Don't have the wrong impression that pilots listen on the freq only when they hear their callsign.We are listening all the time ,especially on TMA and ground,all com.I think it's a safety issue.Finally ,our life it's on the line.
I can give you one ex ,from the ground.Smart french pilot,instructed in french to give way to us.We received taxi clearance,in english,but ,as I understand some french,I waited for few seconds to see what the other plane,coming from behind ,will do.He just came in sight,and passed like a bullet ! No appologies,just some harsh discussion in french between the controller and the speeding pilot.If I wouldn't have understood french ,I would've start taxiing,not seeing the oncoming plane,and maybe got into some mess.It's a busy international airport,not a domestic one.
Don't get me wrong.French is a beautifull language,but it's not the aviation language.
And it's not only in France that this happen.Also Greece,Turkey ,maybe some other.
ps . I was amazed to hear some 'american' callsign ,requesting clearance in a perfect,fluent french. I think they have translators now,like the chinese
Brgds
Alex
difficult sometime to try and listen all the french and english mixture,without getting a headeache.I understand french ,but all this french ,english,french ,english ...I tell you,it's not safe!
Everybody can make mistakes,and by making sure that all the pilots and atc's speak the same language you can avoid many of this mistakes.Don't have the wrong impression that pilots listen on the freq only when they hear their callsign.We are listening all the time ,especially on TMA and ground,all com.I think it's a safety issue.Finally ,our life it's on the line.
I can give you one ex ,from the ground.Smart french pilot,instructed in french to give way to us.We received taxi clearance,in english,but ,as I understand some french,I waited for few seconds to see what the other plane,coming from behind ,will do.He just came in sight,and passed like a bullet ! No appologies,just some harsh discussion in french between the controller and the speeding pilot.If I wouldn't have understood french ,I would've start taxiing,not seeing the oncoming plane,and maybe got into some mess.It's a busy international airport,not a domestic one.
Don't get me wrong.French is a beautifull language,but it's not the aviation language.
And it's not only in France that this happen.Also Greece,Turkey ,maybe some other.
ps . I was amazed to hear some 'american' callsign ,requesting clearance in a perfect,fluent french. I think they have translators now,like the chinese
Brgds
Alex
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Don't know if you have checked out this thread here Alex. Could be worth a look.
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Without going over old ground, but surely the incident at CDG with the Spanish charter flight and the British cargo shorts, where a pilot was tragically killed spoke volumes.
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And we think itīs safer than using only english.
(ICAO, Eurocontrol etc etc think english is the way to go)
Nice to have so "few" speaking our native language, made the choice to use english easy.
It's allso fairly easy to spot pilots that comes from nations that still use native language at home........
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You are right there, but we use only english when its really necessary, not as often as we should sometimes, but thats another story.
Everybody think the safest way to give control is THEIR way, so its not a matter of speaking or not your own language.
There are five ICAO languages as long as i can remember. You want english to be the only ICAO language... well, i disagree, its as easy as that. But this is a bizantine no end-discussion, i dont want to convince you and you are not going to convince me.
Best regards,
Eduardo Carrasco
GCCC
Everybody think the safest way to give control is THEIR way, so its not a matter of speaking or not your own language.
There are five ICAO languages as long as i can remember. You want english to be the only ICAO language... well, i disagree, its as easy as that. But this is a bizantine no end-discussion, i dont want to convince you and you are not going to convince me.
Best regards,
Eduardo Carrasco
GCCC
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Phraseology
Perhaps the greatest threat to aviation - after gravity - is language. Theres not much we can do about gravity, but there is something we can do about language to improve aviation safety. The short-term solution is rather simple: we must all agree on a common aviation language, then, we must enforce its use.
Right now, English is favored but not mandated. Theres no law preventing a controller from speaking French in Montreal or Finnish in Helsinki. Its perfectly legal, although not necessarily wise, for a pilot to speak Spanish in Miami or English in Havana. Its a polyglot world we live in and aviation is no exception. Globalization is, after all, both the parent and child of aviation. If we fly, we shrink the world and make borders less relevant. Politically, we may oppose globalization; practically, we in aviation have no choice but to embrace it.
So, which language shall we use? The obvious first answer is English. It is currently hot as the worlds second language; although Chinese and Arabic neither attractive aviation choices for a number of reasons - are starting to make inroads. English has problems, though, which make it a less-than-perfect choice. (see: http://members.aol.com/kentjones9/my.../business.html) Esperanto, Latin or a relatively simple Romance language like Spanish might make nice choices, or perhaps we could come up with an entirely new aviation-exclusive tongue. The fact is, however, that to change to another language now would require training almost the entire aviation community in the new language, thus insuring an even lower level of proficiency than is presently the case with English. So for now, I suggest we agree with ICAO (see: http://www.icao.int/icao/en/res/a32_16.htm) and accept English as the lingua franca of the skies.
This leaves us with the issue of enforcement. There are no legal penalties for poor phraseology. There is no world body capable of issuing corrective orders to pilots or controllers who use poor English aviation phraseology . . . or use no English at all.
There should be, and it ought to be ICAO.
In the meantime, each nation ought to pass legislation and their aviation authorities (like the FAA and JAA) ought to pass rules and joint aviation requirements mandating that proper English phraseology be used by all pilots and controllers who participate in their airspace. They should identify and correct communication problems in the same way they do pilot deviations and controller errors. Pilots and controllers who fail to meet standards should be banned from use of the airspace. This is a serious problem and it demands rigorous solutions.
The long-term solution is automation. Pilot/controller Data Link programs will be designed that rely on symbols and simple, easily translatable phraseologies. Pilots and controllers will be able to display clearances in the language of their choice and errors will eventually be eliminated. Once again, as with so many endeavors, the best way to serve humanity is to take humans out of the loop.
Rich
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Right now, English is favored but not mandated. Theres no law preventing a controller from speaking French in Montreal or Finnish in Helsinki. Its perfectly legal, although not necessarily wise, for a pilot to speak Spanish in Miami or English in Havana. Its a polyglot world we live in and aviation is no exception. Globalization is, after all, both the parent and child of aviation. If we fly, we shrink the world and make borders less relevant. Politically, we may oppose globalization; practically, we in aviation have no choice but to embrace it.
So, which language shall we use? The obvious first answer is English. It is currently hot as the worlds second language; although Chinese and Arabic neither attractive aviation choices for a number of reasons - are starting to make inroads. English has problems, though, which make it a less-than-perfect choice. (see: http://members.aol.com/kentjones9/my.../business.html) Esperanto, Latin or a relatively simple Romance language like Spanish might make nice choices, or perhaps we could come up with an entirely new aviation-exclusive tongue. The fact is, however, that to change to another language now would require training almost the entire aviation community in the new language, thus insuring an even lower level of proficiency than is presently the case with English. So for now, I suggest we agree with ICAO (see: http://www.icao.int/icao/en/res/a32_16.htm) and accept English as the lingua franca of the skies.
This leaves us with the issue of enforcement. There are no legal penalties for poor phraseology. There is no world body capable of issuing corrective orders to pilots or controllers who use poor English aviation phraseology . . . or use no English at all.
There should be, and it ought to be ICAO.
In the meantime, each nation ought to pass legislation and their aviation authorities (like the FAA and JAA) ought to pass rules and joint aviation requirements mandating that proper English phraseology be used by all pilots and controllers who participate in their airspace. They should identify and correct communication problems in the same way they do pilot deviations and controller errors. Pilots and controllers who fail to meet standards should be banned from use of the airspace. This is a serious problem and it demands rigorous solutions.
The long-term solution is automation. Pilot/controller Data Link programs will be designed that rely on symbols and simple, easily translatable phraseologies. Pilots and controllers will be able to display clearances in the language of their choice and errors will eventually be eliminated. Once again, as with so many endeavors, the best way to serve humanity is to take humans out of the loop.
Rich
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Well. The other day i saw this documentary where the Boeing and the Airbus Chiefs were talking about the total automation of their planes. Their conclusion was that they were not going to work in that direction, since internal studies had demonstrated that an automated plane would be much less safe than the redundant and man-supervision-ready-to-take-over plans they are working on.
So...
Best regards.
So...
Best regards.
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..and here is a question which has probably been asked before.. with new JAR ATCO licences, can UK nationals work in places like MAH, PMI, MAD, FRA or CDG without any problem? Can ATCOs from Spain France or Germany work in the UK or do we HAVE to take a language test to work in each others countries? I suspect the native English speakers may be at a disadvantage??!!
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... and if english was the unique language to speak, wouldnt you have advantage over all the others that dont have english as their mother language to work ANYWHERE?
As you can see, everything have different points of view.
As in any other job, i think you should do a native language test, if not to speak on the frequency, at least to be able to coordinate with your colleagues. Or do you want us to speak english between us too? I dont think so.
And more, would you want to live in a place where you cant speak a word? Right now people from the EU can come to Spain and apply fon Air Traffic Controller, and yes, we have a language test for them that spanish people dont do (we assume spanish people speak spanish).
If you dont agree with this, maybe you should think that we are over 200 million persons in Europe and more than 30 countries. When you fly over France (if you were a pilot), think that it is YOU the one that does not speak the language, is not the french controllerīs fault, for the ATC is easier and safer to be able to do his job in his mother language, but on behalf of safety and the international conventions, that french guy speaks english to you, since a pilot canīt learn every language in the world.
Well, as i said before, this is a no-end discussion, i dont want to convince you and you are not going to convince me.
Best regards, mate.
As you can see, everything have different points of view.
As in any other job, i think you should do a native language test, if not to speak on the frequency, at least to be able to coordinate with your colleagues. Or do you want us to speak english between us too? I dont think so.
And more, would you want to live in a place where you cant speak a word? Right now people from the EU can come to Spain and apply fon Air Traffic Controller, and yes, we have a language test for them that spanish people dont do (we assume spanish people speak spanish).
If you dont agree with this, maybe you should think that we are over 200 million persons in Europe and more than 30 countries. When you fly over France (if you were a pilot), think that it is YOU the one that does not speak the language, is not the french controllerīs fault, for the ATC is easier and safer to be able to do his job in his mother language, but on behalf of safety and the international conventions, that french guy speaks english to you, since a pilot canīt learn every language in the world.
Well, as i said before, this is a no-end discussion, i dont want to convince you and you are not going to convince me.
Best regards, mate.
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Sonnendec:
Mate ,did you read my initial post? If so,take a step back,and read again yours.Who was talking about speaking with your coleagues in english? Do you think that we speak in english in the cockpit,if we are not native english ? Except the checklists ,of course,which are done in english.
That was not the problem,mate. I was talking about safety.If you want to become a pilot or a controller ,this days ,you must know english,and yes,you should speak it pretty well.If you think is hard,don't become a professional pilot or controller.It's simple.
There are pilots flying everywhere in the world,not only in their native country.We are not required to speak chinese if we fly for China Eastern,for ex.Or to know arabic if we fly for Emirates.We will speak in english,we are pros.
I don't mind what you speak in the tower between yourself,I won't hear it from the plane,it's important that you understand between yourself.
But what you speak to the pilots must be understand by everybody! On gound or air.
' When you fly over France (if you were a pilot), think that it is YOU the one that does not speak the language, is not the french controllerīs fault, for the ATC is easier and safer to be able to do his job in his mother language, but on behalf of safety and the international conventions, that french guy speaks english to you, since a pilot canīt learn every language in the world.'
If you are a pilot? Who else is flying ,mate? Astronauts?
And yes,read again your words.'In interest of safety,as a pilot can't learn every language in the world '.But we all must learn one,english it is now.Maybe in 3000 will be japanese,who knows.We'll learn it then.
And ,don't think for a minute you can't make mistakes.Give yourself a chance,by making sure everybody understands what you are saying.This way ,maybe even a collision may be avoided. Read my example or Barnaby's .
' as i said before, this is a no-end discussion, i dont want to convince you and you are not going to convince me.'
This says all about you mate. I think you have no place in this industry if you think like this.You should be able to listen to arguments and even change your mind if you been proved wrong.
I hope you'll think a minute about all this
Brgds Alex
Mate ,did you read my initial post? If so,take a step back,and read again yours.Who was talking about speaking with your coleagues in english? Do you think that we speak in english in the cockpit,if we are not native english ? Except the checklists ,of course,which are done in english.
That was not the problem,mate. I was talking about safety.If you want to become a pilot or a controller ,this days ,you must know english,and yes,you should speak it pretty well.If you think is hard,don't become a professional pilot or controller.It's simple.
There are pilots flying everywhere in the world,not only in their native country.We are not required to speak chinese if we fly for China Eastern,for ex.Or to know arabic if we fly for Emirates.We will speak in english,we are pros.
I don't mind what you speak in the tower between yourself,I won't hear it from the plane,it's important that you understand between yourself.
But what you speak to the pilots must be understand by everybody! On gound or air.
' When you fly over France (if you were a pilot), think that it is YOU the one that does not speak the language, is not the french controllerīs fault, for the ATC is easier and safer to be able to do his job in his mother language, but on behalf of safety and the international conventions, that french guy speaks english to you, since a pilot canīt learn every language in the world.'
If you are a pilot? Who else is flying ,mate? Astronauts?
And yes,read again your words.'In interest of safety,as a pilot can't learn every language in the world '.But we all must learn one,english it is now.Maybe in 3000 will be japanese,who knows.We'll learn it then.
And ,don't think for a minute you can't make mistakes.Give yourself a chance,by making sure everybody understands what you are saying.This way ,maybe even a collision may be avoided. Read my example or Barnaby's .
' as i said before, this is a no-end discussion, i dont want to convince you and you are not going to convince me.'
This says all about you mate. I think you have no place in this industry if you think like this.You should be able to listen to arguments and even change your mind if you been proved wrong.
I hope you'll think a minute about all this
Brgds Alex
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If we were in a bar right now I think 'Sonnedec' would at this point turn away from you and start speaking to someone else in his native tongue. He is not thinking with his head.
As you say 'Alex' it is for "Safety's" sake. I would gladly put my hand up and say that I'd learn French, Spanish or whatever language the authorities say in order to speak one common language.
I have had a number of instances where language has caused problems and I have sent in a number of ASR's because of it. I do hope that others do the same and that someone somewhere will come to the conclusion that we have been 'reasonably' fortunate with the number of catastrophies so far (respect to those who have not been 'reasonably' fortunate RIP). The problem is that we have all had instances where we have come close to a potential incident through other languages being used instead of English.
It is also inefficient. The number of times that I have called for 'push & start' when a plane next to me or behind me is about to push is incredible. Had they called in 'English' I would not have called myself as I would know what is happening around me. It must waste the controllers time to have to tell me to 'hold position as there is another pushing back behind me'. So where is the merit in speaking another language?
As you say 'Alex' it is for "Safety's" sake. I would gladly put my hand up and say that I'd learn French, Spanish or whatever language the authorities say in order to speak one common language.
I have had a number of instances where language has caused problems and I have sent in a number of ASR's because of it. I do hope that others do the same and that someone somewhere will come to the conclusion that we have been 'reasonably' fortunate with the number of catastrophies so far (respect to those who have not been 'reasonably' fortunate RIP). The problem is that we have all had instances where we have come close to a potential incident through other languages being used instead of English.
It is also inefficient. The number of times that I have called for 'push & start' when a plane next to me or behind me is about to push is incredible. Had they called in 'English' I would not have called myself as I would know what is happening around me. It must waste the controllers time to have to tell me to 'hold position as there is another pushing back behind me'. So where is the merit in speaking another language?
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WEBLUEIT: I think you summed it up nicely. Situational awareness is becoming more and more important both for controllers and pilots. Having accidents like the one in Paris and to some extent Linate because of use of 2 languages on the air is silly. It's one of the things that is cheapest and easiest to fix.
I have worked as a controller in Sweden, where the military and GA used to use Swedish on the air. The military started transition to english in 1999, and have completed it now I think (They still used swedish in basic training in 2002). The GA might take longer, but the percentage of swedish speakers on the air have decreased.
I found it a big pain in the ass to keep track of who spoke what, and offcourse had the problems as stated by others regarding SA.
Cheers
I have worked as a controller in Sweden, where the military and GA used to use Swedish on the air. The military started transition to english in 1999, and have completed it now I think (They still used swedish in basic training in 2002). The GA might take longer, but the percentage of swedish speakers on the air have decreased.
I found it a big pain in the ass to keep track of who spoke what, and offcourse had the problems as stated by others regarding SA.
Cheers
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Alexban, well said
I am an air traffic controller from Canada who has worked in Europe. When I arrived in Geneva centre, both french and english was used on the frequency. After the introduction of RVSM they made the upper airspace english only. There were no problems. IF you wanna work in the aviation industry you must speak english.. I didn't decide this, it's just the most commonly used language in developed countries. All pilots do, all controllers do. So what is the problem if we use 1 language.. it's alot safer... ever heard of situational awareness?
IT's a whole pride thing, I am allowed to speak spanish, french etc so I will and the reason.. "we think it's safer to speak to spanish/french speaking pilots/controllers in their mother tongue.." So what are we saying here? If I fly into a spanish/french airport speaking english.. am i not provided as safe a service? Is the controller not able to communicate effectively?
I don't buy that, it's not a question of ability when it comes to language it's a question of will. They DON'T want to speak the one language.
I am an air traffic controller from Canada who has worked in Europe. When I arrived in Geneva centre, both french and english was used on the frequency. After the introduction of RVSM they made the upper airspace english only. There were no problems. IF you wanna work in the aviation industry you must speak english.. I didn't decide this, it's just the most commonly used language in developed countries. All pilots do, all controllers do. So what is the problem if we use 1 language.. it's alot safer... ever heard of situational awareness?
IT's a whole pride thing, I am allowed to speak spanish, french etc so I will and the reason.. "we think it's safer to speak to spanish/french speaking pilots/controllers in their mother tongue.." So what are we saying here? If I fly into a spanish/french airport speaking english.. am i not provided as safe a service? Is the controller not able to communicate effectively?
I don't buy that, it's not a question of ability when it comes to language it's a question of will. They DON'T want to speak the one language.
Pegase Driver
Ah the famous language issue ! coming back like clockwork every year or so .
So My usal anwers : fisrt ICAO still says that the language to be spoken on R/T is the language of the country overflown, but in absence of a common International language, a phraseology based on English shall be used.,
So what happens in Spain and CDG is according ICAO.
You do not like it, lobby your politicians to make a change , The Russians , The wole South and central American continent and Chinese would love it.
So forget that and we have to work in the real world.
Second : the well know example of the collision in CDG between the shorts and the MD83 ( as mentionned by B.the bear ) is unfortunately not a very good one
( it is only often used as such because there are in fact extremely few accidents occurs where language was the direct cause )
If you read the report ( avail on line at www.bea-fr.org ) you will find that everyone was in the wrong there. The main cause was the controller lining up the shorts ( number 2 After take off that did not occur, but the shorts pilot said he mistook a 737 landing for the take off ) at an intersection the controller thought was behind the MD 83, . who also tought the Shorts was behind him.
The fact that the take off cearance to the MD83 was in French did not help , we all agree on that , but that was not the cause of the accident. Merely a factor that could have avoided it possibly.
.
But that said, I fully agree and support that English phraseology ( not Shakespeare English or Texan American ) should be used at all international airports and Centres...and that includes CDG of course.
So My usal anwers : fisrt ICAO still says that the language to be spoken on R/T is the language of the country overflown, but in absence of a common International language, a phraseology based on English shall be used.,
So what happens in Spain and CDG is according ICAO.
You do not like it, lobby your politicians to make a change , The Russians , The wole South and central American continent and Chinese would love it.
So forget that and we have to work in the real world.
Second : the well know example of the collision in CDG between the shorts and the MD83 ( as mentionned by B.the bear ) is unfortunately not a very good one
( it is only often used as such because there are in fact extremely few accidents occurs where language was the direct cause )
If you read the report ( avail on line at www.bea-fr.org ) you will find that everyone was in the wrong there. The main cause was the controller lining up the shorts ( number 2 After take off that did not occur, but the shorts pilot said he mistook a 737 landing for the take off ) at an intersection the controller thought was behind the MD 83, . who also tought the Shorts was behind him.
The fact that the take off cearance to the MD83 was in French did not help , we all agree on that , but that was not the cause of the accident. Merely a factor that could have avoided it possibly.
.
But that said, I fully agree and support that English phraseology ( not Shakespeare English or Texan American ) should be used at all international airports and Centres...and that includes CDG of course.
Last edited by ATC Watcher; 3rd Mar 2004 at 05:53.
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Ok.
Alexban, my last post was not answering to you at all. So i dont understand why you attack me like that. Oh well.
You havent understood anything i said , so iīll just turn around and speak with a colleague in ENGLISH, so everyone of you can understand. If you want to talk about what i wrote and not about what you think i wrote, let me know.
Itīs sad that some people think their way is the ONLY way. I just said my opinion about what i and a lot others think is safer, but dont worry you all, iīll just shut up and let you all agree with each other. Youīll feel much better.
Iīm an air traffic controller and i am used to calm down under stressed situations, dont think you will offend me anymore.
Best regards and goodbye.
Alexban, my last post was not answering to you at all. So i dont understand why you attack me like that. Oh well.
You havent understood anything i said , so iīll just turn around and speak with a colleague in ENGLISH, so everyone of you can understand. If you want to talk about what i wrote and not about what you think i wrote, let me know.
Itīs sad that some people think their way is the ONLY way. I just said my opinion about what i and a lot others think is safer, but dont worry you all, iīll just shut up and let you all agree with each other. Youīll feel much better.
Iīm an air traffic controller and i am used to calm down under stressed situations, dont think you will offend me anymore.
Best regards and goodbye.
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I suppose it's more confortable for only-english speaking people, to be able to understand everything.
But for example in cdg, the aircraft behind you may be on the same frequency, but the one just 1000ft above you or at 3 Nm on your right will be on another frequency. So it doesn't matter I speak french, english or chinese, you won't hear it.
and the traffic is really too complicated to have an idea on what's going on just by listening.
As a controller, what I want, and what is the safer, is that all pilots understand me at first. the safest would be that every pilot and every controller would speak all languages. of course it's impossible, so we use english when there is no other way.
It's not to be pride that we don't want to use english, it's because we really feel it's the safest.
In cdg there have been tries to do it all in english , and it creates a chaos perhaps for lack of preparation. I know there still have studies to use it on tower frequency, because it's simpler, and here, the pilots may really have an idea on what's going on.
what you would like, is that every people on earth, or at least, every people working in aviation would speak english as a native speaker. it's as realistic as saying that we should speak all languages on earth.
But for example in cdg, the aircraft behind you may be on the same frequency, but the one just 1000ft above you or at 3 Nm on your right will be on another frequency. So it doesn't matter I speak french, english or chinese, you won't hear it.
and the traffic is really too complicated to have an idea on what's going on just by listening.
As a controller, what I want, and what is the safer, is that all pilots understand me at first. the safest would be that every pilot and every controller would speak all languages. of course it's impossible, so we use english when there is no other way.
It's not to be pride that we don't want to use english, it's because we really feel it's the safest.
In cdg there have been tries to do it all in english , and it creates a chaos perhaps for lack of preparation. I know there still have studies to use it on tower frequency, because it's simpler, and here, the pilots may really have an idea on what's going on.
what you would like, is that every people on earth, or at least, every people working in aviation would speak english as a native speaker. it's as realistic as saying that we should speak all languages on earth.
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labello
It's chaos because you all want it to be chaos. There is absolutely no reason why CDG cannot operate in 100% english. I also know many of your collegues who do not agree with you, it is they who have told that it's very possible to run CDG in english... In Geneva where I used to work, we stopped using french on the frequency from one day to the next. We had AFR, BZH, DAH, RGI etc. They were not "confused" and there was no "chaos" . Even these regional pilots were very capable in english.
It's chaos because you all want it to be chaos. There is absolutely no reason why CDG cannot operate in 100% english. I also know many of your collegues who do not agree with you, it is they who have told that it's very possible to run CDG in english... In Geneva where I used to work, we stopped using french on the frequency from one day to the next. We had AFR, BZH, DAH, RGI etc. They were not "confused" and there was no "chaos" . Even these regional pilots were very capable in english.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: EGLL
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In my view, one language only for all transmissions around the world. I don't care what language but one only. If you are against using one language then why don't you use your local times for take off and then let the pilots have the confusion of correcting the time difference for landing. This would really screw the whole aviation industry world wide. We (professional aviation personnel) are working in this industry as professionals and should ensure any safety issues, such as the use of different languages, are dealt with to ensure ambiguities do not arise. To me the use of other languages over the R/T is an unsafe practice and should be stopped. I have been to CDG many times, and as said earlier, awareness of the departure/arrival sequence gives the pilot a better picture of what is going on. Without this awareness, safety becomes more of an issue. We should stop unsafe practices now before an accident stops them. Could you, as a pilot or a controller, having caused the death of a person due to an unsafe practice which has been talked about for many years be able to handle it knowing that you could have stopped it by having a universal language. I could not. Think about it. I do not want to be attacked on my doorstep because of unsafe practices which could have been stopped.
ILS 119.5
ILS 119.5