minigundiplomat

Only Half?

ZH875

The other half have already PVR'd (or whatever JPA calls it).

minigundiplomat

RAF morale was lowest, with 72% describing morale as poor or very poor. Don't think Torps will be getting a job as a motivational speaker when he goes!

dallas

P1ss takes apart, I was surprised about this figure for two reasons:

Firstly, if you give a cross section of servicemen a survey, many presume the results might be used to change/improve things, so if they're asked "are you paid enough?" they'll generally reply "no" in a vain attempt to influence a pay rise. In the same way, some think that by voicing their plans to exit this will prompt bosses of various levels to panic and instantly try and resolve whatever grievances are the flavour of the day. To some degree this used to be true 15+ years ago, but now in more cases than not the bosses are either primarily focussed on their own career or, like their blokes, looking at the exit for the same reasons. So I'm surprised the figure is only 50ish%.

Secondly, when I first joined people occasionally put their notice in/PVRd and even discussing a future post-Service was viewed as most disloyal. Today most people openly talk about looking forward to their next option point, and the remainder tend to be junior ranks who haven't thought too hard about the future yet, ambitious officers who are often transfixed by getting as high as they can before pension point, or a handful of 'lifers' who genuinely enjoy the job/life or are stuck because of BSA etc. But that's still only about 10-20% of people I know.

< half doesn't seem to represent the mood.

minigundiplomat

Found this on a website dealing with JPA.....

Connected?

Postman Plod

Nononono and NO again! Morale is not low! It can't be, the MoD spokesman said it wasn't, and was all getting better and you have loads of new kit, loads of money being spent on housing, and its all fantastic! Overstretch, god no! What does Sir Jock know about military capability?? Dont ya know the politicians are the experts in everything??

Beatriz Fontana

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!

Sorry, now my sides ache.

And I can't look at the screen for crying.

Half... I ask ya...

CirrusF

I thought that the results of that survey were actually very good. If you did a similar survey in any other large organisation, I suspect you would not get better results, and quite probably worse results. It is human nature to continually look around for a better situation and life for ourselves and family, so we always think there is greener grass elsewhere, that we are undervalued and underpaid in our current job, and that we would be happier elsewhere.

I thought that the greatest interest in the results was the comparitive difference between the services, and between officers and enlisted men. Given that the army are taking the bulk of the casualties, and are arguably bearing the bulk of the overstretch it was a surprise to see that their morale is higher than the other services, according to the survey. I think the biggest concern for defence chiefs should be the large and consistent gap in all three services between officers and enlisted.

dallas

Although isn't there an argument that the wars are allowing them the opportunity to get on and do what they joined to do - fight people with guns? I think overstretch features to some degree in people leaving, but it's a multi-faceted thing with not necessarily the expected causes. I would suggest people have a Pick n'Mix approach to their reasons - some fair, others unreasonable and overstretch isn't necessarily an issue everywhere.

Hammer Head Too

Dallas raises a very good (and pertinent) point. Earlier in my career the discussions were always Mess based. No way would an officer discuss such things with ORs, just not done. Same with SNCOs.....

Now it's open warfare and the powers to be must know, surely

I hear senior officers talking of their frustrations and desire to leave with whoever wants to discuss it.

I know it's been asked before but what are the current PVR rates compared to 2 years ago, 5 years ago, 10 years ago.

Is the rumour true that PMA are phoning up PVR applicants to "chat" about their reasons. When I left in 2005 I saw and spoke to no-one...

HH2

nigegilb

Hilarious post from Cirrus F who thinks the results of the survey were good.

One thing will alter retention rates, that is the looming recession. Unless MoD take the opportunity to reduce commitments it will only provide a brief respite in what appears to be a mass rejection of the current state of affairs.

Beatriz Fontana

It's our beloved government that tells us where to go.... we just need some seniors big enough to say no and a government bold enough to admit that a war on two fronts is pulling the Armed Forces apart.

Wake me up when you see a pig fly over.

dallas

Seemingly the PVR rates are only slightly higher than normal, but the number of people not signing-on and leaving at their next option point has rocketed - hence the recent subliminally desperate e-mail 'allowing' people to extend by 2-3 years after their option - as if that was some sort of generous concession! I don't have figures on PVR/options, but some senior adminner apparently said this at a briefing not long ago.

As for the 'what can we do to make you stay' phonecall, it seems that may very well be true, on the basis of at least 3 unrelated people telling me so. They're allegedly offering postings, promotions etc. The latter offer does raise some questions about the legitimacy of bypassing promotion boards though: "Sorry keen bloke who's staying, you're not going to be promoted this year as we've done a deal with a bloke who's pissed off and leaving. Oh and he's now going to be your boss." If it's true it's an exceptionally crap and shortsighted plan...which somehow makes it more likely.

NUFC1892

Given that PVR rates have remained pretty static as a % of the Service population for God knows how many years (and, despite horror stories to the contrary they have) the actual number PVR'ing has dropped by approx 50% since 1990 - so why is this?

1. People are generally more content now that 20 years ago?

2. The economy is worse now than 20 years ago?

3. You can interpret any statistic any way you like to get the answer you were searching for?

CirrusF

Yes, to an extent.

This survey will become very valuable if repeated consistently every year, so that trends can be examined. As a one-off, it is difficult to draw a conclusion about the overall morale of the armed services (though I stand by my earlier statement that I think the results would be shown to be surprisingly good if a similar survey was done in a similar large organistion - BA for example).

Where conclusions can immediately be drawn is in the differences between the three services (which could be considered directly comparable), and in the consistently large differences between officers and enlisted men. Those are the two areas that should be addressed by defence chiefs.

Yeller_Gait

NUFC,

Ok I will bite, it has been a long day ....


Assuming an RAF of 92000 in 1990, and a current strength of 40000 today, a reduction of 58%, then if the actual number of people PVR'ing has reduced by 50%, this would indicate an increase in the PVR rate of 12.5%.

Y_G

parabellum

In peacetime the three essential to maintain moral are:
1. Food, 2. Mail and 3 Pay, (In any given order), secondary considerations are accommodation, time away from home etc.

In time of conflict all of the above as well as:
1.Equipment, 2. Ammunition and 3. Adequate protection for the job.

Doesn't look as though the current bunch have been able to focus on any of the basic requirements.

FFP

Mail ? In peacetime ? You kidding me right ?

Where the hell did that one come from ?

parabellum

When I did my twelve month unaccompanied tour mail was quite important, no 'phones, no fax, no internet etc. this was the 'sixties. You must be quite young.

Roland Pulfrew

Mail down the Falklands is always important, despite phone and e-mail!! So you don't have to be too old!