PPL Intsructing for Fun - ie unpaid
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Warwickshire Fields
PPL Intsructing for Fun - ie unpaid
I'm a PPL with 200 hours.
Can I instruct unpaid for a flying school, or do I would I still need to do CPL etc ?
- the pupil would pay the flying school for the aircraft and I'd instruct and at the same time just enjoy the hours in the air !
Can I instruct unpaid for a flying school, or do I would I still need to do CPL etc ?
- the pupil would pay the flying school for the aircraft and I'd instruct and at the same time just enjoy the hours in the air !
Joined: May 2003
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From: Midlands
If my understanding is correct, you can instruct unpaid without a CPL. You would obviously need to complete an FI's course. The basic requirements are 200 hours total with 150 hours P1.
LASORS on the CAA website can give more details than my tired aching head!
Obs cop
LASORS on the CAA website can give more details than my tired aching head!
Obs cop
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
You would need to have passed the JAR-FCL CPL theory exams in order to hold a FI(R) rating on a PPL with SEP Class Rating - and to have completed the FI course.
Not cheap.....
Not cheap.....
The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
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From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
And if you're going to do that, you might as well do the whole CPL, and then get paid the pittance that f/w instructors get. Doing that would save you incurring the wrath of paid flying instructors, who perceive it as someone taking "their" jobs...at least, that's what's happened on several threads on the subject in the past.
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: U.K.
Whirly, That is exactly the problem. I don't want to reopen the whole issue, but how would you like it if there were a load of unpaid Heli FI's doing it for "fun" whilst you sat there and watched and lost money and hours..... Not a very nice situation I'm sure you'd agree.
The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,327
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From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
Say again,
I deliberately didn't discuss the rights or wrongs of the issue, because it's irrelevant to what Daventry is asking, and it's been covered here many times. I just wanted to point out to him how his "colleagues" would view it, that's all.
I deliberately didn't discuss the rights or wrongs of the issue, because it's irrelevant to what Daventry is asking, and it's been covered here many times. I just wanted to point out to him how his "colleagues" would view it, that's all.
Joined: Sep 2001
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From: UK
Agree with Beagle.
You might as well go and do the whole CPL. You only need 100 P1 to start the FI course if you hold a full CPL, and so the difference bewteen obtaining the extra 50 hours P1 against doing the 25 hours CPL flying course is in the great scheme of things negligible. Thats assuming you have not yet got 150 hours P1.
You might as well go and do the whole CPL. You only need 100 P1 to start the FI course if you hold a full CPL, and so the difference bewteen obtaining the extra 50 hours P1 against doing the 25 hours CPL flying course is in the great scheme of things negligible. Thats assuming you have not yet got 150 hours P1.
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Euroland
Related question;
If the flying club is in fact a business making a profit from flyight training, could an instructor only holding a PPL train students?
Are instructors holding PPLs not restricted to instruction flights where the only money paid by the student is the direct operating costs of the flight...i.e. non-profit.
As far as I am aware, most flying schools have the hourly hire rate for the aircraft to which they add the instructor's pay and then some extra money for themselves.....eg, PA28 £90 per hour for a PPL hire but £120 per hour dual of which the instructor gets £15.
Even if the instructor does not accept the £15, there is the question of the other £15 which the club pockets.
IMHO, the only situation where PPL instructor training works is when both the instructor and the student are shareholders in the same club or group or aircraft and the group operates on a voluntary non-profit basis.....i.e. the aircraft costs the same for a PPL as for a student dual as for a student solo and everyone including the instructor make the same financial comittments.
Regards,
DFC
If the flying club is in fact a business making a profit from flyight training, could an instructor only holding a PPL train students?
Are instructors holding PPLs not restricted to instruction flights where the only money paid by the student is the direct operating costs of the flight...i.e. non-profit.
As far as I am aware, most flying schools have the hourly hire rate for the aircraft to which they add the instructor's pay and then some extra money for themselves.....eg, PA28 £90 per hour for a PPL hire but £120 per hour dual of which the instructor gets £15.
Even if the instructor does not accept the £15, there is the question of the other £15 which the club pockets.
IMHO, the only situation where PPL instructor training works is when both the instructor and the student are shareholders in the same club or group or aircraft and the group operates on a voluntary non-profit basis.....i.e. the aircraft costs the same for a PPL as for a student dual as for a student solo and everyone including the instructor make the same financial comittments.
Regards,
DFC
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: London
One reason for this scenario might be if the ppl holder can't get a class 1 medical but wants to instruct for the fun of it.
I would rather have someone teach me who was dedicated to instructing than someone just hanging around, until an airline job comes along, bored siting in the right hand seat of a pa28 or c150 all day long.
I would rather have someone teach me who was dedicated to instructing than someone just hanging around, until an airline job comes along, bored siting in the right hand seat of a pa28 or c150 all day long.
Joined: Aug 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL(H)
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From: UK
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but you cannot any longer instruct AND BE REMUNERATED for it if you have only a PPL and FI rating.(Have recently come across an alleged case of this.) I assume that there are no 'grandfather rights' on this one.
So far as I remember, this all changed in the run-up to JAR with abolition of CPL Restricted and BCPLs. Instructors are professionals and must hold CPL/ATPL to be paid for it.
So far as I remember, this all changed in the run-up to JAR with abolition of CPL Restricted and BCPLs. Instructors are professionals and must hold CPL/ATPL to be paid for it.
Joined: Sep 2001
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From: UK
idle stop
If you were in this position, which could only have been if you had these privileges before AFAIR 1989, you could have converted at the time to a restricted BCPL. After this time a BCPL(A) was required to teach for reward, all BCPLs had grandfather rights when JAA arrived.
Edited to clarify wording.
If you were in this position, which could only have been if you had these privileges before AFAIR 1989, you could have converted at the time to a restricted BCPL. After this time a BCPL(A) was required to teach for reward, all BCPLs had grandfather rights when JAA arrived.
Edited to clarify wording.
Last edited by RodgerF; 29th August 2003 at 19:42.
Joined: Aug 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL(H)
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From: UK
Thanks, RodgerF.
The case I referred to definitely has only a PPL. This makes his being remunerated illegal. I gather the CAA legal department has already closed any possible get arounds, such as paying the PPL/FI 'tea boy' the equivalent of 4 hours FI flying pay per day!
Fortunately, this case is not my worry...merely something recently heard on the grapevine.
The case I referred to definitely has only a PPL. This makes his being remunerated illegal. I gather the CAA legal department has already closed any possible get arounds, such as paying the PPL/FI 'tea boy' the equivalent of 4 hours FI flying pay per day!
Fortunately, this case is not my worry...merely something recently heard on the grapevine.
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: England
Ok, so you can instruct on a ppl with FI and CPL ground school.
Can you instruct on a NPPL with FI and CPL ground school?
I ask 'cause I have a friend who cannot have a ppl due to medical but can have a nppl.
Can you instruct on a NPPL with FI and CPL ground school?
I ask 'cause I have a friend who cannot have a ppl due to medical but can have a nppl.
Joined: Mar 2003
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From: North Wales
Is the CPL course conversion only 25 hours? in that case I'll just do a CPL before I start instructing. especially as I'm going into commercial aviation anyway.
(but if anyone has me for an instructor, they arn't going to get someone who would rarther be flying an airliner - they are going to get a wannabe bush pilot. far more interesting - imagine "maverick" from top gun in a PA28. ( trust me I know - I have a very experianced, and fun instructor. Anyone know CFI David Lloyd?
WF.
(but if anyone has me for an instructor, they arn't going to get someone who would rarther be flying an airliner - they are going to get a wannabe bush pilot. far more interesting - imagine "maverick" from top gun in a PA28. ( trust me I know - I have a very experianced, and fun instructor. Anyone know CFI David Lloyd?
WF.
