PPL Intsructing for Fun - ie unpaid
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Free Instruction...
Doing it for free.....Too many of us have done this in the past ....and we are all reaping the rewards...payscales that have not moved with inflation....working conditions that would be unacceptable for any other industry....and bosses and accountants that just love us....Do yourself and the rest of us a favour....Charge them for your services.Lets face it would your dentist do a freebie on your teeth....(if he does can i have his number ? )
Heh, DFC, just come on the thread.
Are we allowed to know who's paying part-timers(?) £15 an hour ??
And just for the record and the support of the many good but underpaid guys and gals around, I'm strictly against any "freebie" instruction. I'm might bend and accept rates might vary dependent on experience but, No, no unpaid instruction. Thin end of the wedge.
Rgds,
Sleeve.
Are we allowed to know who's paying part-timers(?) £15 an hour ??
And just for the record and the support of the many good but underpaid guys and gals around, I'm strictly against any "freebie" instruction. I'm might bend and accept rates might vary dependent on experience but, No, no unpaid instruction. Thin end of the wedge.
Rgds,
Sleeve.
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Sleeve Wing,
The £15 figure was purely an example - I would expect that instructors would be paid more than that per flying hour in order to ensure that they are compensated for giving proper briefings at the start and end of each training session.
Regards,
DFC
The £15 figure was purely an example - I would expect that instructors would be paid more than that per flying hour in order to ensure that they are compensated for giving proper briefings at the start and end of each training session.
Regards,
DFC
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Sleeve wing,
What's the problem with part timers?
I am seeking to become a part time FI. Much as I would love to be full time, the pay would not cover my current finances, so in my passion for flying I have set part time flying instruction as the next best goal I can hope to achieve.
Does this mean that I will be looked upon with distain by fellow flyers and instructors? I would sincerely hope not, particularly as I wish to instruct to pass on my love of flying, not merely to achieve hours for my own purposes.
Furthermore,
I feel sorry for those individuals who cannot attain a class one medical, and therefore cannot accept payment, but again, instruct out of a love of aviation. I am not an avid supporter of those who instruct for free, but I do feel for those who have no choice but to offer their services for free. It is all too easy to pour scorn on an individual, but the siutuation is in the hands of the CAA. In the same way that doctors are to be classed as on duty even if having a nap but between calls on hospital premises, the only way instructors will see considerable changes to the pay scales is for the CAA to revise when instructors are classed as working. Ie. Instructors should be classed as working for every hour they are at their place of work, not just time airbourne and as such should recieve remuneration for their duties in line with a minimum hourly rate. Unfortunately, people love flying so much that there will always be someone willing to undercut an opponent and anyone who sticks to their principles is likely to lose out rather than get more pay. There is nothing new in this, it's how businnesses work and without overhauling the system, the employees will always be on the losing side.
IMHO.............awaits incoming.
Obs cop
What's the problem with part timers?
I am seeking to become a part time FI. Much as I would love to be full time, the pay would not cover my current finances, so in my passion for flying I have set part time flying instruction as the next best goal I can hope to achieve.
Does this mean that I will be looked upon with distain by fellow flyers and instructors? I would sincerely hope not, particularly as I wish to instruct to pass on my love of flying, not merely to achieve hours for my own purposes.
Furthermore,
I feel sorry for those individuals who cannot attain a class one medical, and therefore cannot accept payment, but again, instruct out of a love of aviation. I am not an avid supporter of those who instruct for free, but I do feel for those who have no choice but to offer their services for free. It is all too easy to pour scorn on an individual, but the siutuation is in the hands of the CAA. In the same way that doctors are to be classed as on duty even if having a nap but between calls on hospital premises, the only way instructors will see considerable changes to the pay scales is for the CAA to revise when instructors are classed as working. Ie. Instructors should be classed as working for every hour they are at their place of work, not just time airbourne and as such should recieve remuneration for their duties in line with a minimum hourly rate. Unfortunately, people love flying so much that there will always be someone willing to undercut an opponent and anyone who sticks to their principles is likely to lose out rather than get more pay. There is nothing new in this, it's how businnesses work and without overhauling the system, the employees will always be on the losing side.
IMHO.............awaits incoming.
Obs cop
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There is absolutely no reason to feel sorry for any potential instructor who can not get a Class 1 medical.
If all they want to do in life is instruct, have no interest in any form of commercial flying but want to be paid an appropriate wage for providing instruction then it is perfectly possible to do so with a PPL.
They can instruct, and when they gain expereince, they can if recomended they can graduate to examminer.
It's all in the rules.
Regards,
DFC
If all they want to do in life is instruct, have no interest in any form of commercial flying but want to be paid an appropriate wage for providing instruction then it is perfectly possible to do so with a PPL.
They can instruct, and when they gain expereince, they can if recomended they can graduate to examminer.
It's all in the rules.
Regards,
DFC
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The fact that it is possible to instruct on a PPL is clear to me, however, I am now rather confused concerning remuneration.....
ANO 2000, schedule 8 states...
My take on this is that PPL holders who instruct on SLMG or microlights may recieve remuneration for their services, but PPL holder instructors on any other category of aircraft may not recieve remuneration.
Hence, my understanding was that a PPL(A) holder who holds in instructor rating cannot be paid. Thus I feel for those PPL(A) who cannot achieve a class 1 medical as this is the bar that prevents them from being paid to instruct.
Or have I got the wrong end of the stick DFC?
Regards Obs cop
ANO 2000, schedule 8 states...
(b) He shall not receive any remuneration for his services as a pilot on a flight save that if his licence includes a flying instructor's rating, a flight instructor rating or an assistant flying instructor's rating by virtue of which he is entitled to give instruction in flying microlight aircraft or self-launching motor gliders he may receive remuneration for the giving of such instruction or the conducting of such flying tests as are specified in sub-paragraph (a)(i) in a microlight aircraft or a self-launching motor glider.
Hence, my understanding was that a PPL(A) holder who holds in instructor rating cannot be paid. Thus I feel for those PPL(A) who cannot achieve a class 1 medical as this is the bar that prevents them from being paid to instruct.
Or have I got the wrong end of the stick DFC?
Regards Obs cop
Couldonlyaffordafiver
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Does this mean that I will be looked upon with distain by fellow flyers and instructors? I would sincerely hope not, particularly as I wish to instruct to pass on my love of flying, not merely to achieve hours for my own purposes.
While I appreciate that instructing is a valuable way of entering the professional aviation world, relatively few people see instructing as anything other than a means of building hours. An enthusiastic instructor whose sole motivation is seeing his or her student gain a PPL whilst ensuring that a high standard of common sense is ingrained is surely a far better prospect than an instructor who will disappear off to an airline at the earliest opportunity.
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Obs Cop,
You have hit the nail on the head.......a PPL holder with a Microlight Instructor rating can be paid for instruction.
If all a person want to do is teach and fly then 3 axis microlight instruction is the same as SEP instruction for the PPL........just as rewarding and just as much fun.
So that is why I say that there absolutely no need to feel sorry for people who by choice exclude themselves from something that they claim to want to do.
Regards,
DFC
You have hit the nail on the head.......a PPL holder with a Microlight Instructor rating can be paid for instruction.
If all a person want to do is teach and fly then 3 axis microlight instruction is the same as SEP instruction for the PPL........just as rewarding and just as much fun.
So that is why I say that there absolutely no need to feel sorry for people who by choice exclude themselves from something that they claim to want to do.
Regards,
DFC
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DFC,
Good point, well made and good use of colour
I'll stand by my opinion, purely as microlighting doesn't float everyones boat and I don't feel that someone wishing to instruct and who can't get a Class 1 has to be forced to a specific route eg. microlights or SLMG.
Obs cop
Good point, well made and good use of colour
I'll stand by my opinion, purely as microlighting doesn't float everyones boat and I don't feel that someone wishing to instruct and who can't get a Class 1 has to be forced to a specific route eg. microlights or SLMG.
Obs cop
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Obs cop
You have a point but have you seen these new microlights coming out such as the C42 et al. They are more high tech than SEP stuff! Don't dismiss them totally.
Not wishing to discuss your medical background but my eyesight on the old system prevented me having a Class 1 so I had the old class 2 to instruct on. When JAR came in I was promised a class 1 restricted. I still have such a thing. Mine has a NJC (non jar compliant) thing on it. So I can't get a foreign ex uk ATPL etc. Have you gone down this avenue to see if you can get a restricted Class 1.
Its also worth becoming a microlight instructor then build the hours to go back to the CAA and say hey nothing damage in "x" hours now so lighten up boys and give me that Class1. It worked for me. Now I can fly professionally and instruct for fun and get paid for both.
Were there is a will, there is a way!
You have a point but have you seen these new microlights coming out such as the C42 et al. They are more high tech than SEP stuff! Don't dismiss them totally.
Not wishing to discuss your medical background but my eyesight on the old system prevented me having a Class 1 so I had the old class 2 to instruct on. When JAR came in I was promised a class 1 restricted. I still have such a thing. Mine has a NJC (non jar compliant) thing on it. So I can't get a foreign ex uk ATPL etc. Have you gone down this avenue to see if you can get a restricted Class 1.
Its also worth becoming a microlight instructor then build the hours to go back to the CAA and say hey nothing damage in "x" hours now so lighten up boys and give me that Class1. It worked for me. Now I can fly professionally and instruct for fun and get paid for both.
Were there is a will, there is a way!
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Captairprox,
thanks for the response, but maybe I wasn't clear in my posts earlier. I have a class 1 medical and am currently chasing my CPL with a view to then becoming an instructor. The likleyhood is that I will be financially restricted to working part time, but hey the majority of instructors supporting the flying clubs are part time.
I was merely commenting that I held a certain amount of sympathy, not shared by everyone, towards those who could not get a class 1 and therefore are restricted as to recieving remuneration.
I know the working for nothing thing is contentious, but not everyone has complete freedom with their choices, and the limitations they face should be respected rather than regarded with derision. In fairness, the increase in the numbers and the technological advances in microlights or ultralight aircraft means that more general aviation is likely to develop in this area, requiring more instructors, who could get paid on a ppl.
IMHO
Obs cop
thanks for the response, but maybe I wasn't clear in my posts earlier. I have a class 1 medical and am currently chasing my CPL with a view to then becoming an instructor. The likleyhood is that I will be financially restricted to working part time, but hey the majority of instructors supporting the flying clubs are part time.
I was merely commenting that I held a certain amount of sympathy, not shared by everyone, towards those who could not get a class 1 and therefore are restricted as to recieving remuneration.
I know the working for nothing thing is contentious, but not everyone has complete freedom with their choices, and the limitations they face should be respected rather than regarded with derision. In fairness, the increase in the numbers and the technological advances in microlights or ultralight aircraft means that more general aviation is likely to develop in this area, requiring more instructors, who could get paid on a ppl.
IMHO
Obs cop
