View Poll Results: Should PPL Instructors wear a collar and tie?
no - pretentious
172
44.44%
yes - I think I look good
215
55.56%
Voters: 387. You may not vote on this poll
PPL Instructors wearing collar and tie
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
From: uk
I don't wear a tie and neither does anyone else where I teach. I used to work somewhere where everyone wore ties but most of the instructors there were only interested in moving into airlines not in being instructors. Where I am now, everyone wants to instruct, there's no gold braid and the students get excellent service from a very professional team who are committed to teaching PPLs.
I asked all the students that I met this week what they thought and several said that they had visited other airfields and chose us because we seemed to have a passion about flying and a practical approach - not one thought that we would be better instructors if we wore ties. I then asked a colleague who works somewhere where they had to wear ties - and all his students said that they didn't care whether their instructors wore ties as long as they cared about their students and were professional in their approach to flying and teaching.
Not scientific research, I know - but maybe all the people who are adamant that ties make them look better should seek their students' opinions.
I asked all the students that I met this week what they thought and several said that they had visited other airfields and chose us because we seemed to have a passion about flying and a practical approach - not one thought that we would be better instructors if we wore ties. I then asked a colleague who works somewhere where they had to wear ties - and all his students said that they didn't care whether their instructors wore ties as long as they cared about their students and were professional in their approach to flying and teaching.
Not scientific research, I know - but maybe all the people who are adamant that ties make them look better should seek their students' opinions.
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
From: U.K
re: the comment about Airline pilots wering ties and PPL instructors doing the same
The cockpit of an airliner is (relatively) comfortable and spacious and has air conditioning and temperature control.
The cockpit of the C150 that I have spent 250 hours in throughout the summer is very cramped, very very hot, badly ventilated.
Now I have no problem whatsoever with anyone choosing to wear a tie, I dont think its prententious in any way, simply that being over dressed or uncomfortable is not helpful towards providing good instruction. My job is to teach people to fly, not to look fabulous doing it. I just think that wearing a tie is irrelevant to anything really.
Lets look smart and professional and wear clothing that is SUITABLE to the aircraft that we're flying.
We want a relaxed, comfortable, safe, professional environment to fly in, lets allow oursleves to dress in that manner too!
The cockpit of an airliner is (relatively) comfortable and spacious and has air conditioning and temperature control.
The cockpit of the C150 that I have spent 250 hours in throughout the summer is very cramped, very very hot, badly ventilated.
Now I have no problem whatsoever with anyone choosing to wear a tie, I dont think its prententious in any way, simply that being over dressed or uncomfortable is not helpful towards providing good instruction. My job is to teach people to fly, not to look fabulous doing it. I just think that wearing a tie is irrelevant to anything really.
Lets look smart and professional and wear clothing that is SUITABLE to the aircraft that we're flying.
We want a relaxed, comfortable, safe, professional environment to fly in, lets allow oursleves to dress in that manner too!
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 563
Likes: 1
From: queensland australia
it takes more than a tie to be a professional pilot, having said that, appearance is obviously very important to the customer and your employer. if the company wants you to wear a tie then so be it. are phantom or superman ties ok??? (just kidding)
neat and tidy casual clothes do not detract from the image of a company.
our instructors wear company supplied work shirts and trousers. the shirts and jumpers have logos on the pockets, with no tie, and we haven't had any complaints in fifteen years.
i do think it is pretentious of some pilots when you to go into the local town and see instuctors in reflective taped flying suits with badges that say instructor and wings and other paraphernalia hanging off them. some companies in australia have their new instructors wear epaulets. a bit over the top as well.
you don't see many grotty instructors around, all of the blokes i know in instructing are proud of their jobs and if you are the same then it follows that you shoud be proud of your appearance.
neat and tidy casual clothes do not detract from the image of a company.
our instructors wear company supplied work shirts and trousers. the shirts and jumpers have logos on the pockets, with no tie, and we haven't had any complaints in fifteen years.
i do think it is pretentious of some pilots when you to go into the local town and see instuctors in reflective taped flying suits with badges that say instructor and wings and other paraphernalia hanging off them. some companies in australia have their new instructors wear epaulets. a bit over the top as well.
you don't see many grotty instructors around, all of the blokes i know in instructing are proud of their jobs and if you are the same then it follows that you shoud be proud of your appearance.
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 3,130
Likes: 17
From: U.K.
A shirt and tie are a bit pretentious. They tend to alienate students from instructors and ground staff from flying staff.
There is a need to be well turned out, but not stuffy. We are teaching people to enjoy their flying. It's supposed to be fun, lets not get above ourselves here. If both you and they are relaxed.... Makes sense really. Smart casual, as has been put before is in my opinion the best way to look smart and be comfortable.
As for needing to wear a tie to put over a sense of professionalism. If you can't do that by your actions and manner, then you are in the wrong business.
There is a need to be well turned out, but not stuffy. We are teaching people to enjoy their flying. It's supposed to be fun, lets not get above ourselves here. If both you and they are relaxed.... Makes sense really. Smart casual, as has been put before is in my opinion the best way to look smart and be comfortable.
As for needing to wear a tie to put over a sense of professionalism. If you can't do that by your actions and manner, then you are in the wrong business.
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,399
Likes: 857
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
Quite so. You might look as dolled up as a model from the Transair catalogue in your pretend-airline uniform and gold braid - but unless you can teach in a professional manner, you won't cut the mustard as a Flight Instructor!
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 17,517
Likes: 1,851
From: England
I am with BEagle - smart casual.
If its not a service flying unit then a flightsuit is totally knobish.
Similarly flying instructors should not wear braid of any kind as there is no ambiguity about their authority onboard their aircraft.
I *do* think flying instructors should pay more attention to clothing/equipment though. We base many assumptions on the fact we are going to crash. In which case I would choose not to wear synthetic fibres next to skin, would like to have my mobile phone on me, would be grateful of a litre or two of water, and as darkness fell I might be considerably happier with my coat on.
I've seen plenty of flying instructors dissappear over quiet isolated terrain with nary a thought of what a chump they would be after executing a daring precision Forced Landing on the only suitable bit of land for miles...
WWW
If its not a service flying unit then a flightsuit is totally knobish.
Similarly flying instructors should not wear braid of any kind as there is no ambiguity about their authority onboard their aircraft.
I *do* think flying instructors should pay more attention to clothing/equipment though. We base many assumptions on the fact we are going to crash. In which case I would choose not to wear synthetic fibres next to skin, would like to have my mobile phone on me, would be grateful of a litre or two of water, and as darkness fell I might be considerably happier with my coat on.
I've seen plenty of flying instructors dissappear over quiet isolated terrain with nary a thought of what a chump they would be after executing a daring precision Forced Landing on the only suitable bit of land for miles...
WWW
Shining Example, apparently...
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
From: Lone Star State
Did my PPL at a school with a relaxed & friendly atmosphere. Some instructors wore an open shirt or poloshirt which looked just right. Others wore collar & tie daily, smart but a little OTT. The only rule was that instructors had to wear long trousers - understandable, but I did pity them when the temperature passed 40 degC.
All students are different, but my 2p-worth is that if I'm in vacation mode (t-shirt & shorts), I'd prefer not to fly with someone who looks like an extra from Reservoir Dogs. (Would much rather fly with someone else, in her bikini!
)
All students are different, but my 2p-worth is that if I'm in vacation mode (t-shirt & shorts), I'd prefer not to fly with someone who looks like an extra from Reservoir Dogs. (Would much rather fly with someone else, in her bikini!
)
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
From: uk
I understand your point of view but find that my students get distracted easily and would certainly find it hard to concentrate on flying if I were to turn up in my bikini. So I compromise with a flying school logo on my polo/tee shirt and smart navy shorts (summer) or slacks/jeans (winter). Personally, I have no problem with teaching in a bikini but would feel duty bound to charge "EXTRA", I'm afraid.
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 17,517
Likes: 1,851
From: England
I'd like to have seen *my* students faces if I had turned up in a Bikini... 
Mind you after a couple of the parties in Jerez I could well have turned up dressed in nothing more than the TV room curtains, but thats another story.
WWW
Mind you after a couple of the parties in Jerez I could well have turned up dressed in nothing more than the TV room curtains, but thats another story.
WWW
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,399
Likes: 857
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
If you need to stoop as low as wearing a 'clip on safety tie', then clearly the tie is being worn in an inappropriate environment. Clip on ties, good grief, how appallingly common!
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
From: Perth, WA
Well, as one of your customers, may I put my two bobs worth in.
In my working environment, it is becoming less common to see people wearing ties. I am a consultant and most of my customers are moving towards polo shirts / open neck cotton shirts with the company logo and slacks. I tend to dress to match my customers and, even through winter, wear a company polo shirt. I consider myself a professional and do not feel that I am under dressed considering the climate here.
Given this, I would not expect to see my instructor appear with a tie on when it is 40 deg on the tarmac, and the cockpit is going to be a darned sight warmer. This is simply ludicrous. Our instructors all wear open necked cotton shirts and dark blue slacks. This is neat and IMO comfortable. I do not think less of their professionalism because they are not wearing a tie.
In my working environment, it is becoming less common to see people wearing ties. I am a consultant and most of my customers are moving towards polo shirts / open neck cotton shirts with the company logo and slacks. I tend to dress to match my customers and, even through winter, wear a company polo shirt. I consider myself a professional and do not feel that I am under dressed considering the climate here.
Given this, I would not expect to see my instructor appear with a tie on when it is 40 deg on the tarmac, and the cockpit is going to be a darned sight warmer. This is simply ludicrous. Our instructors all wear open necked cotton shirts and dark blue slacks. This is neat and IMO comfortable. I do not think less of their professionalism because they are not wearing a tie.
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
From: Long Beach, CA
I work in the States and I can say that it completely depends on the student you are teaching...ok i'm a pragmatist, but if s/he wants to see a shirt and tie I will present myself with one.
It also depends on the dresscode of the company you choose to work for.
It also depends on the dresscode of the company you choose to work for.
Joined: Aug 2002
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL(H)
Posts: 345
Likes: 2
From: UK
Actually, the flight suit does have its place.
I've recently started instructing again in a small two-place heli. The only stowage is under the seats. (No access when seated!) I have found that my specs/sunspecs/mobile phone get in the way when they are in my pockets and my flight board and maps are serious lose article potential.
Said articles could all be stowed in leg pocket of suit, except flightboard, for which substitute small kneeboard, or use flight suit kneepad.
So I'm seriously considering getting out one of my old suits....worn in both military and civil employ....but minus the regalia if its just instructing work.
And BTW, they are Nomex, so offer added protection.
Agree with many of the other comments. Dress smart:act smart. But smart doesn't need to be formal.
I've recently started instructing again in a small two-place heli. The only stowage is under the seats. (No access when seated!) I have found that my specs/sunspecs/mobile phone get in the way when they are in my pockets and my flight board and maps are serious lose article potential.
Said articles could all be stowed in leg pocket of suit, except flightboard, for which substitute small kneeboard, or use flight suit kneepad.
So I'm seriously considering getting out one of my old suits....worn in both military and civil employ....but minus the regalia if its just instructing work.
And BTW, they are Nomex, so offer added protection.
Agree with many of the other comments. Dress smart:act smart. But smart doesn't need to be formal.
Guest
Posts: n/a
It really does depend on the company and the style of student you are teaching. Realisticall i like the feel o the tie and ****** bars... makes me feel like i've earn't what i'm wearing but admittily living in australia it can bet pretty hot... general rule of thumb is that if it is hotter then 30 degrees the tie can come off.
I think the professional look instill more confidence from the student in the instructor.. especially at the ab-initio stage, and the professional look as a commercial teacher gives the student something to look up to
I think the professional look instill more confidence from the student in the instructor.. especially at the ab-initio stage, and the professional look as a commercial teacher gives the student something to look up to
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
From: Over the hedge... just!
Customer feedback
Speaking as a previous customer, I gained the impression that the uniform was for the benefit of the instructor, to differentiate himself from the 'punters', to let the student know who's boss. Most of the experienced instructors I flew with preferred casual wear. The little Hitlers strutted about with their shiney shoes, shoulder braids, and ties, grasping their clipboards. I'm not saying every uniformed instructor fitted this description, far from it. This was the impression it gave me. I chose not to fly with them. Our school let the instructors wear what they wanted, only one instructor did the stiff shirt and tie routine. I believe in my case the pilot student relationship was not helped by the uniform. I preferred to sit next to someone dressed as I was, rather than one that looked like a policeman. I don't share the belief that the only tidy clean attire is a white/blue shirt with tie, black/dark blue trousers and shiney black shoes. But this is only my point of view.
So I suppose I agree with nonradio, from the customers perspective
CC
So I suppose I agree with nonradio, from the customers perspective
CC
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,414
Likes: 2
From: Europe
Well there is a time and place for everything!
Not wearing a shirt and tie does not equate to being scruffy and cr*p instructing!
There are obviously some folk out there who find the attire a nice comfy blanket - customers and instructors alike!
One thing is for sure: s&t is unlikely to upset anyone but may make for a formal and stale atmosphere.
Whether that is always the most conducive to having a good time and learning a lot is open to debate.
MHO of course.
FD
Not wearing a shirt and tie does not equate to being scruffy and cr*p instructing!
There are obviously some folk out there who find the attire a nice comfy blanket - customers and instructors alike!
One thing is for sure: s&t is unlikely to upset anyone but may make for a formal and stale atmosphere.
Whether that is always the most conducive to having a good time and learning a lot is open to debate.
MHO of course.
FD
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 180
Likes: 0
From: UK
Shirt (or NATO jumper) and tie is acceptable for PPL instructors. Gold braid however, looks ridiculous in anyting smaller than a Golden Eagle or Navajo. I think most people are happy to see their instructors wearing a shirt and tie. But I have a feeling that the real issue here is not about that, but about wearing the gold braid as well. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
From: Epsom, Surrey, UK
Professional
Lets not forget that we're (actually, in my case "hoping to be") all professionals, and as such we deserve a small degree of respect from our students. Uniform is all part of the professional, clean-cut image which I feel all people, no matter what their employ nor walk of life, tend to wear appropriate, professional clothing - its the uniform?
The other aspect is that of perception. Two people, side by side, one wearing baggies, etc. and the other in shirt/tie, etc. You subconciously make a whole host of assumptions re: these people you've never met in a split second or two - and my bet is that I'd rather give my training bucks to the shirt/tie one?
Just my thoughts ...
The other aspect is that of perception. Two people, side by side, one wearing baggies, etc. and the other in shirt/tie, etc. You subconciously make a whole host of assumptions re: these people you've never met in a split second or two - and my bet is that I'd rather give my training bucks to the shirt/tie one?
Just my thoughts ...