View Poll Results: Should PPL Instructors wear a collar and tie?
no - pretentious
172
44.44%
yes - I think I look good
215
55.56%
Voters: 387. You may not vote on this poll
PPL Instructors wearing collar and tie
. What gives. 
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
From: UK
What an amusing thread 
Horses for courses, surely. If my student were a big businessman who was prepared to pay me a decent rate for the job, like the rate I pay my solicitor and accountant for instance, then it would only be courteous to were the sort of get up he expects.
On the other hand, would you expect your golf professional or you local youth footie coach to wear a shirt & tie to work? Of course not (or am I mistaken?).
Remember guys, the world is bigger than your favourite job.
cheers
MadamB
(Thinks, now where did I leave those white stilletos?)
Horses for courses, surely. If my student were a big businessman who was prepared to pay me a decent rate for the job, like the rate I pay my solicitor and accountant for instance, then it would only be courteous to were the sort of get up he expects.
On the other hand, would you expect your golf professional or you local youth footie coach to wear a shirt & tie to work? Of course not (or am I mistaken?).
Remember guys, the world is bigger than your favourite job.
cheers
MadamB
(Thinks, now where did I leave those white stilletos?)
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 412
Likes: 0
From: essex
This is a funny thread so couldn't resist putting in my penny's worth
Depending on where I have flown I have adopted the "local culture" as far as uniform (or no uniform), that is to say I have been a team player and fitted in.
When working for a more formal employer I have resisted full Dinner Jacket and Top Hat but quite honestly I don't care if I have to dress up as Mickey Mouse or fly in the nude as long as it is a good place to work and I get some decent flying experience.
I have noticed that tie and bars are normally found where people are very focused on preparing for an airline career, I have also seen the results that these company's get (very successful). Why do they get these good results ? I think because they are instilling professional attitudes, pride and discipline from day 1 with an attitude that you may as well start as you mean to go on and "dress for success"
In the US there is a different more relaxed culture with smart slacks and polo shirts which is very "relaxed executive" but achieves equally good results.
Moral - If you don't like the local garb then leave and find a tribe that you do like - next time you are at the airport lookout for the Mohican with the tie dyed tshirt and face piercings who is captain of your long haul flight !!!!
Depending on where I have flown I have adopted the "local culture" as far as uniform (or no uniform), that is to say I have been a team player and fitted in.
When working for a more formal employer I have resisted full Dinner Jacket and Top Hat but quite honestly I don't care if I have to dress up as Mickey Mouse or fly in the nude as long as it is a good place to work and I get some decent flying experience.
I have noticed that tie and bars are normally found where people are very focused on preparing for an airline career, I have also seen the results that these company's get (very successful). Why do they get these good results ? I think because they are instilling professional attitudes, pride and discipline from day 1 with an attitude that you may as well start as you mean to go on and "dress for success"
In the US there is a different more relaxed culture with smart slacks and polo shirts which is very "relaxed executive" but achieves equally good results.
Moral - If you don't like the local garb then leave and find a tribe that you do like - next time you are at the airport lookout for the Mohican with the tie dyed tshirt and face piercings who is captain of your long haul flight !!!!
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: UK
So.......on it goes. The never ending debate. I notice one contributor who implies that this thread is unimportant and Pprune should cover much more useful subjects.
I would say that this thread is what Pprune is all about.....Flying Trivia!
Ok, maybe not, but obviously ties have struck a chord, and if a chord can be struck, well bloody well loosen it!!!
As I mentioned before, I would say BAN the TIE. In winter it is invariably hidden under the jumper, and in Summer it is way to hot, or humid. Both conditions produce uncomfortable symptoms such as face bloat, Red Pigment embarrassed face look and sweat. It is hard to look cool (as instructors should) when your face resembles an award winning red turnip.
For those about to mention the more equitable conditions of Spring and Autumn, then ok, maybe. BUT WHY. They are uncomfortable garments from a bygone age which will only be missed by those of a similar vintage.
I look forward to offering birthday wishes to this thread....
I would say that this thread is what Pprune is all about.....Flying Trivia!
Ok, maybe not, but obviously ties have struck a chord, and if a chord can be struck, well bloody well loosen it!!!
As I mentioned before, I would say BAN the TIE. In winter it is invariably hidden under the jumper, and in Summer it is way to hot, or humid. Both conditions produce uncomfortable symptoms such as face bloat, Red Pigment embarrassed face look and sweat. It is hard to look cool (as instructors should) when your face resembles an award winning red turnip.
For those about to mention the more equitable conditions of Spring and Autumn, then ok, maybe. BUT WHY. They are uncomfortable garments from a bygone age which will only be missed by those of a similar vintage.
I look forward to offering birthday wishes to this thread....
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,486
Likes: 7
From: Darwin
Its beyond me as to why so many people have an allergic reaction to someone mentioning the concept of wearing a tie.
If ties are causing your face to turn red and your body to overheat, the tie is too tight! Possibly your shirt collar is too tight too.
Clip on ties are indeed safer - which is why the police wear clip ons- you cant be strangled by another human or a helicopter by a clip on tie.
If ties are causing your face to turn red and your body to overheat, the tie is too tight! Possibly your shirt collar is too tight too.
Clip on ties are indeed safer - which is why the police wear clip ons- you cant be strangled by another human or a helicopter by a clip on tie.
Not Good Airline Material
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
From: Airstrip One
Hmmm....difficult choice.....
Clip on : appallingly working-class
Real Tie : appallingly trying-not-to-be-working-class
Here's an idea - turn up in a 15 year old Volvo estate in crumpled brown cords, scuffed brown shoes and a slightly frayed sports jacket over a cardigan almost worn through at the elbows. Then you can look appallingly actually-I-don't-give-a-f*ck-what-u-think upper-class.
Personally, I like the open-necked shirt or top button undone and tie pulled loose approach which goes with a practical its-easier-to-move-my-head-to-maintain-a-good-lookout attitude. If you have to wear a tie, you can always pull it tight and straighten it up a bit to welcome the punters through the door.
Don't trust stuffed shirt dandies.
Despite the British cinema's postwar propaganda campaign to the contrary, statistically it was "appallingly working-class" NCO's in Hurricanes, not Officers in Spitfires with MG's and girlfreinds called Daphne, wot won the Battle of Britain.
You probably couldn't take them anywhere though!
Clip on : appallingly working-class
Real Tie : appallingly trying-not-to-be-working-class
Here's an idea - turn up in a 15 year old Volvo estate in crumpled brown cords, scuffed brown shoes and a slightly frayed sports jacket over a cardigan almost worn through at the elbows. Then you can look appallingly actually-I-don't-give-a-f*ck-what-u-think upper-class.
Personally, I like the open-necked shirt or top button undone and tie pulled loose approach which goes with a practical its-easier-to-move-my-head-to-maintain-a-good-lookout attitude. If you have to wear a tie, you can always pull it tight and straighten it up a bit to welcome the punters through the door.
Don't trust stuffed shirt dandies.
Despite the British cinema's postwar propaganda campaign to the contrary, statistically it was "appallingly working-class" NCO's in Hurricanes, not Officers in Spitfires with MG's and girlfreinds called Daphne, wot won the Battle of Britain.
You probably couldn't take them anywhere though!
Last edited by Blackshift; 6th November 2005 at 17:04.
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,200
Likes: 0
From: Norfolk UK
A few years ago I was at an organic farming meeting and I was talking to this chap in yellow cords,brown leather brogues,smart jacket,check shirt and tie.
He was the epitome of the gentleman farmer and in conversation acted as such, telling me it was a very large farm etc,until I asked him how long the farm had been in the family.
He then said "Oh,I'm the manager,there's the owner."
A long haired bloke in a scruffy pullover full of holes and ancient creased trousers got out of this really old battered rusty Cavalier.
Ever so well spoken but not in an affected way and obviously old money as they say up here in Norfolk,and he did not have a tie wrapped around his neck.
You can never judge 'em by the clothes.
Lister
Edited to add I'm not an instructor but fascinated by the topic!
He was the epitome of the gentleman farmer and in conversation acted as such, telling me it was a very large farm etc,until I asked him how long the farm had been in the family.
He then said "Oh,I'm the manager,there's the owner."
A long haired bloke in a scruffy pullover full of holes and ancient creased trousers got out of this really old battered rusty Cavalier.
Ever so well spoken but not in an affected way and obviously old money as they say up here in Norfolk,and he did not have a tie wrapped around his neck.
You can never judge 'em by the clothes.
Lister
Edited to add I'm not an instructor but fascinated by the topic!
Last edited by Lister Noble; 11th November 2005 at 17:22.
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 412
Likes: 0
From: essex
Reminds me of a funny episode
I was in the bar at a flying club at an old WW2 airport when in walked a rather distinguished looking gent sporting a very elaborate handle bar moustache and dressed head to toe in fur lined flying boots and flying suit adorned with patches.
I said to my friend "he looks like he could tell us a thing or two about flying"
My friend replied
"Oh ! he's not actually a pilot, just one of the volunteer marshalls"
Appearances can be deceptive !
I was in the bar at a flying club at an old WW2 airport when in walked a rather distinguished looking gent sporting a very elaborate handle bar moustache and dressed head to toe in fur lined flying boots and flying suit adorned with patches.
I said to my friend "he looks like he could tell us a thing or two about flying"
My friend replied
"Oh ! he's not actually a pilot, just one of the volunteer marshalls"
Appearances can be deceptive !
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 125
Likes: 0
From: ENZED
Re: PPL Instructors wearing collar and tie
I am a Chief flying instructor for a small aero club in New Zealand, and have been watching this thread with interest!
Our colonial ways here may shock genteel personages from your Northern hemisphere, but our climate is hotter, the outdoors culture figures hughly!
Quite often I will wear a white shirt and tie in winter, minus the tie in summer, but sometimes jeans and a tidy tee shirt,(surf shorts- Dec to March- our summer) in summer.
For evening and after hours flying, it is shorts with tee shirt and sandals or bare feet in hot conditions or when at a smaller grass airfield, that is a carry over from the meat bombing and glider towing days.
I dont feel that standard of dress has any relevence on the way I teach, either PPL or commercial training(We do dress up for flight test day!)
HOWEVER, when doing a commercial operation(Charter) always collar and tie, shoes shined to perfection, etc etc.
Just a couple of days ago, I had two teenage students ( 16 and 19) both wore shorts, barefeet, and one had a tee shirt on , the other a tanktop.
It was very hot in the Cessna152, and pilots dressed COMFORTABLY fly better and safer than than ones dressed like a tailors dummy!
( I might add I was dressed the same, it was beautiful evening!)
I have had a student here collapse with heat exhaustion in the 1990's.
I am sure that will spark some comments from 'overseas', I can just hear the comments now,
'oh well. another silly colonial' !!
Cheers!
Our colonial ways here may shock genteel personages from your Northern hemisphere, but our climate is hotter, the outdoors culture figures hughly!
Quite often I will wear a white shirt and tie in winter, minus the tie in summer, but sometimes jeans and a tidy tee shirt,(surf shorts- Dec to March- our summer) in summer.
For evening and after hours flying, it is shorts with tee shirt and sandals or bare feet in hot conditions or when at a smaller grass airfield, that is a carry over from the meat bombing and glider towing days.
I dont feel that standard of dress has any relevence on the way I teach, either PPL or commercial training(We do dress up for flight test day!)
HOWEVER, when doing a commercial operation(Charter) always collar and tie, shoes shined to perfection, etc etc.
Just a couple of days ago, I had two teenage students ( 16 and 19) both wore shorts, barefeet, and one had a tee shirt on , the other a tanktop.
It was very hot in the Cessna152, and pilots dressed COMFORTABLY fly better and safer than than ones dressed like a tailors dummy!
( I might add I was dressed the same, it was beautiful evening!)
I have had a student here collapse with heat exhaustion in the 1990's.
I am sure that will spark some comments from 'overseas', I can just hear the comments now,
'oh well. another silly colonial' !!
Cheers!
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 590
Likes: 0
From: Eire/HK
Re: PPL Instructors wearing collar and tie
I to have followed this with interest and think there are reasons for everything.
Thne flightsuit issue is not without merit, firstly for students it can save you a fortune in clothes if you are flying on a regular basis, I dont know how many shirts I chucked because of oil stains, secondly as a safety issue, a cotton flightsuit or Nomex, will go along way to saving your life in a fire.
However, 2 things to bare in mind, you will look like a prat if you are flying a 150 in a flight suit covered in "topgun" badges and generally you should wear along the lines of what the school requires. You do have to look into the practical issues to and temp. is a big thing. You will perform better in a comfortable enviroment, and what you are wearing will go along way to providing that. As for the bars and things, well I will leave that up to the individual or institution, when I instructed in the US, the school required that we wore 2 bars, since leaving there and working as a corporate pilot I wear epulettes for work, but not to instruct.
I think the most important aspect is that you look smart, feel comfortable and project the right image, what you wear and the frills that you attach for that first impression are not as important as the impression your student leaves with
Thne flightsuit issue is not without merit, firstly for students it can save you a fortune in clothes if you are flying on a regular basis, I dont know how many shirts I chucked because of oil stains, secondly as a safety issue, a cotton flightsuit or Nomex, will go along way to saving your life in a fire.
However, 2 things to bare in mind, you will look like a prat if you are flying a 150 in a flight suit covered in "topgun" badges and generally you should wear along the lines of what the school requires. You do have to look into the practical issues to and temp. is a big thing. You will perform better in a comfortable enviroment, and what you are wearing will go along way to providing that. As for the bars and things, well I will leave that up to the individual or institution, when I instructed in the US, the school required that we wore 2 bars, since leaving there and working as a corporate pilot I wear epulettes for work, but not to instruct.
I think the most important aspect is that you look smart, feel comfortable and project the right image, what you wear and the frills that you attach for that first impression are not as important as the impression your student leaves with
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
From: Near Shobbers
I was told of an advanced variation on the above technique when I started flying gliders- namely when in cloud, if the s!!!s running out of your collar then you know which way up you are...
Obviously not many glider pilots wear ties these days, so the tie technique is not really appropriate.
Now as power FI, I would if I had to but would prefer not.
PF
Obviously not many glider pilots wear ties these days, so the tie technique is not really appropriate.
Now as power FI, I would if I had to but would prefer not.
PF