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Stall/Spin Training

Old 31st Jul 2021, 15:08
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Stall/Spin Training

Hi,

Where is the reference to the requirement for 2 hours of SSAT in the PPL course?
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Old 31st Jul 2021, 18:32
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AMC1 FCL.210.A PPL(A) Experience requirements and crediting
FLIGHT INSTRUCTION FOR THE PPL(A)
(xiv) Exercise 11: Spin avoidance:
(A) safety checks;
(B) stalling and recovery at the incipient spin stage (stall with excessive wing drop, about 45);
(C) instructor induced distractions during the stall.
Note 1: at least two hours of stall awareness and spin avoidance flight training should be completed during the course.
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Old 31st Jul 2021, 23:56
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FYI Transport Canada has a Stall and Spin Avoidance guide if you are interested. Google TP 13747
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 01:28
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Out of interest: "at least two hours of stall awareness and spin avoidance flight training" seems to me that means undertaking that training for 2 hours rather than, for example, doing two flights of an hour each where such training was undertaken? If I do such a one hour flight from where I am based I would spend about 25 minutes max doing the stall/spin avoidance exercises.
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 08:53
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Originally Posted by David J Pilkington View Post
Out of interest: "at least two hours of stall awareness and spin avoidance flight training" seems to me that means undertaking that training for 2 hours rather than, for example, doing two flights of an hour each where such training was undertaken? If I do such a one hour flight from where I am based I would spend about 25 minutes max doing the stall/spin avoidance exercises.
I think the thing to remember, DJP, is that this is not really a box-ticking exercise.
Having carried out such instruction for a long time, albeit mainly prior to aerobatic training, the idea is to familiarise yourself with the physical/visual situation of any Unusual Position, to recognise it and to safely recover with minimum height loss.
IMHO this requires as many hours practice as is needed to feel comfortable with your recoveries.
There have been too many fatal accidents caused by spinning off the Finals turn, mishandling in poor visibility and just flicking off an over-enthusiastic steep turn at low level. Its for your own good.
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 10:27
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Originally Posted by Sleeve Wing View Post
I think the thing to remember, DJP, is that this is not really a box-ticking exercise. ..... IMHO this requires as many hours practice as is needed to feel comfortable with your recoveries.
Agreed.

Originally Posted by Sleeve Wing View Post
Having carried out such instruction for a long time, albeit mainly prior to aerobatic training ......
Me too. I encounter many new pilots and I wonder. I also wonder about some aircraft types used wrt flight manual limitations.

CASA's sample training syllabus here has two 1 hr flights so I'm interested in the meaning of that note.
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 10:54
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After completing exercise 10 you’re probably not far off 2 hrs SSAT anyways, but it is far better to review some stall awareness/avoidance often during the course - just 10-15 minutes every 2 months or so. Keeps it all fresh in the students thoughts. Never have too much SSAT in your book.
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 11:13
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seems to me that means undertaking that training for 2 hours rather than, for example, doing two flights of an hour each where such training was undertaken? If I do such a one hour flight from where I am based I would spend about 25 minutes max doing the stall/spin avoidance exercises.
There is no stipulation as to how many flights to accrue 2 hours and nor should there be, The old way was perhaps too restricted and based on 'Pavlov's Dog'. Much time was spent in repetition honing a valuable, in itself, auto response. The aircraft can be stalled in any phase of flight of course and therefore there is no need to climb to straight and level before training commences. Much can be done more than only 25 minutes in level flight: the departure and the the climb, climbing turns, slow flight including simulated poor visibility, during the descent, the circuit and the approach. The two hours can be fully utilised with a little imagination even, have you thought, whilst taxying. Interestingly, some years ago, the UK General Aviation Safety Council (GASCo) produced a study of all this and to which I contributed. The most noted phase for loss of control, resulting in a fatality, was during the climbing turn following the take-off, but this is ignored and rarely mentioned - take note.
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Old 1st Aug 2021, 23:04
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Originally Posted by Fl1ingfrog View Post
There is no stipulation as to how many flights to accrue 2 hours and nor should there be ... The most noted phase for loss of control, resulting in a fatality, was during the climbing turn following the take-off, but this is ignored and rarely mentioned - take note.
Yes, fully aware of all of that. Thanks, that is the closest to answering my simple question on the meaning of that note. I'll stop bothering everyone here.
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