Upset or aerobatic instructing? How to start?

[flensr]

Hello folks,

I've been kicking around the idea of buying an upset training syllabus from one of the training publishers and doing some part-time upset training. I spent 9 years teaching USAF primary UPT in the T-37 and T-6 so this would be my bread and butter, but mostly it would be a way to find someone else to pay me to turn a plane upside down. I enjoyed instructing so this would be something I really like doing both for my own benefit and for the potentially life-saving skills it can impart to students.

But... How to start?

Seems like most aircraft suitable for this sort of training are taildraggers and I don't have a taildragger cert. What kind of plane should I be looking at both for my own training, and to instruct in?

Should I try to join up with an established school, or roll my own program? Thinking syllabus, aircraft availability, insurance, all those considerations might be easier if I'm working through an established school, but are there drawbacks?

Basically I never did the private instructing gig since I was mil only until I started 121 flying, so there's a big experience gap there. I'm just looking for some info to help get me started. If it matters, I'm in the Los Angeles area. I still have the habit patterns my very first civilian instructor gave me 30 years ago and my PPL checkride with a former flying tiger (Lt Col Glen "Pappy" Hesler) remains a highlight of my flying career, so I'm kind of jazzed about giving back a little here.

Thanks in advance!

[Big Pistons Forever]

For upset training I think you should have side by side seating as that is the likely configuration of the aircraft that a student will have when the bad thing happens. My question would be how aerobatic do you want your trainer. If you are just doing upset training than a Beechcraft Sport or Sundowner with the aerobatic kit would be fine. If you also want to do proper aerobatic training then the lycoming powered Zlin would be a good choice and they are certified by the FAA. A Slingsby would be another possibility. All are tricycle gear

Personally I would hook up with a good fairly large school. They can handle all the management of the aircraft and come with a built in student supply

[Genghis the Engineer]

I did my aerobatic rating recently at Ultimate High at Goodwood. They impressed me a lot as an operation, and mentioned to me that they are looking for at least one additional instructor - if you fancy the South of England, they might be worth giving a call I'd suggest - UP training is a major part of their business. If you're unable to work in the UK, they might nonetheless be interested in talking about licencing - who knows, you can only ask.

https://www.ultimatehigh.co.uk/


G

[Whopity]

Goodwood is rather a long way from Los Angeles!

[Genghis the Engineer]

It's aviation, we travel.

And the OP was asking about the possibility of licencing somebody else's syllabus.

G

[greeners]

Originally Posted by flensr

I spent 9 years teaching USAF primary UPT in the T-37 and T-6 so this would be my bread and butter, but mostly it would be a way to find someone else to pay me to turn a plane upside down. I enjoyed instructing so this would be something I really like doing both for my own benefit and for the potentially life-saving skills it can impart to students.
!

Hi flensr

Good for you for being interested in helping raise pilot standards. I'd make a few observations which may be of some value.

Your T-37 and T-6 instructing will absolutely ensure that you have the pure piloting skills required to deliver UPRT. When you dig into the regulatory and real-world requirements you'll see that there is a LOT more besides, and not least the need to translate the experience of small aerobatic aircraft to the commercial world of swept wing airliners with underslung engines.

I completely agree with the earlier comment that side-by-side seating is in fact ESSENTIAL for the delivery of effective UPRT; the training environment needs to mirror the commercial cockpit as much as possible, including the critical CRM issues. The Extra 300, huge fun that it is to fly (and we operate the aeroplane as well, although not in the UPRT role), is absolutely not the right platform.

Putting together a full course from scratch will likely take you a LONG time; at Ultimate High, with many experienced ex-mil guys like yourself, current airline training captains, regulatory experts and training specialists it took three years to perfect. Whatever route you take, use a ready developed course that has already been approved by your regulator. We have both EASA and FAA compliant courses; the differences are small but significant.

Finally, and just my personal view, my experience is that Flying Schools that are set up largely as 'hobby businesses' rather that professional flight school that are run as profit making businesses tend to have very short and often painful shelf lives. There are a number of good pilots out there that have established successful businesses, but far more that have struggled to make ends meet.

If you'd like to chat offline then I'm happy so to do. Good luck!

[janrein]

Side by side tri-cycle (basic) aerobatics a/c

In addition to those mentioned already:

Scottish Aviation Bulldog: side by side, tri-cycle gear, constant speed prop, not sure if there are many around in your area, ...

It's aviation, we travel.

Cessna C150/C152 Aerobat: side by side, tri-cycle gear, however fixed prop, low powered.

jr