NPPL - sufficient info to take on new customers?
Thread Starter
NPPL - sufficient info to take on new customers?
Do flying clubs now have sufficient info to enable them to take on new customers for the NPPL?
Would you expect a club to turn someone away at this time (within the last three days) "because the CFI has not yet received the information needed"?
I have recently visited two clubs in my local area:
Club A - trial flight, lots of info, positive approach (but 70 mins away from home)
Club B - comment as above, no info, brick-wall approach, total time in the club less than five minutes (much nearer home)
My impression is that Club B is not only not interested in NPPL business, but is antithetical to it... but I'm genuinely asking the question of those who should know - yourselves - in case I got the wrong impression! Thanks!
Would you expect a club to turn someone away at this time (within the last three days) "because the CFI has not yet received the information needed"?
I have recently visited two clubs in my local area:
Club A - trial flight, lots of info, positive approach (but 70 mins away from home)
Club B - comment as above, no info, brick-wall approach, total time in the club less than five minutes (much nearer home)
My impression is that Club B is not only not interested in NPPL business, but is antithetical to it... but I'm genuinely asking the question of those who should know - yourselves - in case I got the wrong impression! Thanks!
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whether the club wants to teach nppl or not - you should expect more than a brick wall. I believe the very least that an instructor could do for you is explain what is involved and then give you the choice.
Thread Starter
Essouira -
Thanks for your reply - I must admit that, after Club A's approach, I found Club B a shock!
However, I'm willing to be persuaded that they are just "behind the curve" IF the feedback from other clubs/instructors is "we're not ready yet".
If however the feedback is "we're ready to go", then I'll know not to darken Club B's doors again!
(Pity, I have the money in the bank for both myself and my daughter's training, up to about 45 hours each...)
So, do you instructors have the info?!
Thanks for your reply - I must admit that, after Club A's approach, I found Club B a shock!
However, I'm willing to be persuaded that they are just "behind the curve" IF the feedback from other clubs/instructors is "we're not ready yet".
If however the feedback is "we're ready to go", then I'll know not to darken Club B's doors again!
(Pity, I have the money in the bank for both myself and my daughter's training, up to about 45 hours each...)
So, do you instructors have the info?!
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The information is here:
http://www.nppl.uk.com/
I am not aware that any schools or instructors have been notified individually. The syllabus is available on the web site but contains some inaccuracies and references to out of date documents.
Some schools will see a commercial opportunity when it appears whilst others are sceptical. The Skill Test is at exactly the same standard as a JAA PPLSkill Test so quite how you achieve a pass in less hours is a mystery. The syllabus is basically no different except that it has no radio nav at the practical level, a saving of about 2 hours.
In practice, you can start at any school as all hours with a JAA instructor count. The JAA exams are in use so you can do those. The medical is not yet legal but should be by the end of the month although that will only affect solo flying.
http://www.nppl.uk.com/
I am not aware that any schools or instructors have been notified individually. The syllabus is available on the web site but contains some inaccuracies and references to out of date documents.
Some schools will see a commercial opportunity when it appears whilst others are sceptical. The Skill Test is at exactly the same standard as a JAA PPLSkill Test so quite how you achieve a pass in less hours is a mystery. The syllabus is basically no different except that it has no radio nav at the practical level, a saving of about 2 hours.
In practice, you can start at any school as all hours with a JAA instructor count. The JAA exams are in use so you can do those. The medical is not yet legal but should be by the end of the month although that will only affect solo flying.
Thread Starter
StrateandLevel,
Thanks for the link - it is because of the information that is now out - here on PPRuNe, the link you've given and all the flying magazines - that I ventured out to have a look around the local clubs.
As mentioned, flying hours are not an issue for me (more so for my daughter - I can only sub her so much!) - I'm quite prepared to do at least 50% more than the "minimum" at my advanced
age, to obtain a recreational flying licence. The carry-over terms to the JAR-PPL are good enough for my daughter (16) to do the NPPL now and convert later - if she wishes to make a career of it.
I think I know which club is going to get our custom, it just takes a lot more organising...
Thanks for the link - it is because of the information that is now out - here on PPRuNe, the link you've given and all the flying magazines - that I ventured out to have a look around the local clubs.
As mentioned, flying hours are not an issue for me (more so for my daughter - I can only sub her so much!) - I'm quite prepared to do at least 50% more than the "minimum" at my advanced
age, to obtain a recreational flying licence. The carry-over terms to the JAR-PPL are good enough for my daughter (16) to do the NPPL now and convert later - if she wishes to make a career of it. I think I know which club is going to get our custom, it just takes a lot more organising...
Join Date: May 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
May I also suggest you check out instructor slot sizes...
2 hrs - Excellent - the best schools use this - you will enjoy training and will be given lots of attention & proper briefs/de-briefs. Slots should run to time.
1:45 - Good - above average and still gives reasonable time for brief/de-brief...you may find the school running a little late on occasion.
1:30 - Average - pretty much industry standard. brief will be exactly that, de-brief probably done on the fly.
1:15 - Poor - The tightest of slots. You will have minimum time with the instructor, the slots will inevitably run late. Self brief is critical to ensure your progress....personally I say look elsewhere - you cannot fly 0:45 -1:00 in a 1:15 slot with sensible briefs.
< 1:15 - its a joke - run away quickly.
My other advice is always make sure that you read up FULLY on the exercise before your lesson - that way you can ensure you have best prepared.
Hope this helps,
FF
2 hrs - Excellent - the best schools use this - you will enjoy training and will be given lots of attention & proper briefs/de-briefs. Slots should run to time.
1:45 - Good - above average and still gives reasonable time for brief/de-brief...you may find the school running a little late on occasion.
1:30 - Average - pretty much industry standard. brief will be exactly that, de-brief probably done on the fly.
1:15 - Poor - The tightest of slots. You will have minimum time with the instructor, the slots will inevitably run late. Self brief is critical to ensure your progress....personally I say look elsewhere - you cannot fly 0:45 -1:00 in a 1:15 slot with sensible briefs.
< 1:15 - its a joke - run away quickly.
My other advice is always make sure that you read up FULLY on the exercise before your lesson - that way you can ensure you have best prepared.
Hope this helps,
FF
Thread Starter
FF,
Thanks - top tip on the slots! I'm a firm believer in the 5P's also...
I confess that I was looking at the local club for convenience (20 mins from home, even less from work), but that should be a minor item on the list.
In fact the "long distance" club was a spur of the moment thing - finished the weekend job very early, and while tooling up the A1, thought "nice day, I'll just call in for a look around". That became lunch, purchases from the shop, and a trial flight!
General impression seems to be that Club B are either (a) in such good condition that they can turn customers away, or (b) incompetent
Thanks - top tip on the slots! I'm a firm believer in the 5P's also...
I confess that I was looking at the local club for convenience (20 mins from home, even less from work), but that should be a minor item on the list.
In fact the "long distance" club was a spur of the moment thing - finished the weekend job very early, and while tooling up the A1, thought "nice day, I'll just call in for a look around". That became lunch, purchases from the shop, and a trial flight!
General impression seems to be that Club B are either (a) in such good condition that they can turn customers away, or (b) incompetent
Join Date: May 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Indeed,
Perhaps this will help....
I did my initial training on microlights and decided to go commercial - I then looked at a couple of schools for my ppl group A...now slot times never crossed my mind then....however, it all worked out...
The first school I went to was local 15-20 mins. had a trial lesson....not overly impressed....It wasnt really any different from my microlight school in the middle of a field...not really what I was looking for...
The second school is a 45min-55min trek. Boy what a difference though....Ive been going back for courses to this school on & off over the last 6 years. This school ran a 2hr slot time and overall I think I was very lucky given there were another 3-4 schools on the airfield...once I had been inside the building and had the trial lesson I was instantly impressed and *knew* I would be happy here. And so I have been. I never did find out what the other schools were like - I know now.....and Im glad I made the choice I did.
So my advice is - go with that gut instinct - its probably correct.
I have now seen a lot of schools - including driving 1:45 for aerobatics - just because it was the right instructor/right aircraft/right gut feeling....and Im glad I did.....in all this though one of the biggest tell-tales of quality appears to be initial impressions and instructor slot times.
Hope this helps.
Perhaps this will help....
I did my initial training on microlights and decided to go commercial - I then looked at a couple of schools for my ppl group A...now slot times never crossed my mind then....however, it all worked out...
The first school I went to was local 15-20 mins. had a trial lesson....not overly impressed....It wasnt really any different from my microlight school in the middle of a field...not really what I was looking for...
The second school is a 45min-55min trek. Boy what a difference though....Ive been going back for courses to this school on & off over the last 6 years. This school ran a 2hr slot time and overall I think I was very lucky given there were another 3-4 schools on the airfield...once I had been inside the building and had the trial lesson I was instantly impressed and *knew* I would be happy here. And so I have been. I never did find out what the other schools were like - I know now.....and Im glad I made the choice I did.
So my advice is - go with that gut instinct - its probably correct.
I have now seen a lot of schools - including driving 1:45 for aerobatics - just because it was the right instructor/right aircraft/right gut feeling....and Im glad I did.....in all this though one of the biggest tell-tales of quality appears to be initial impressions and instructor slot times.
Hope this helps.
Thread Starter
FF, QDM and all,
Thanks for your help and advice. I'm definitely inclined towards Club A, but will also try a couple of other "long distance" ones, and add slot times to my Q&A list!
Thanks for your help and advice. I'm definitely inclined towards Club A, but will also try a couple of other "long distance" ones, and add slot times to my Q&A list!
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: U.K
Posts: 139
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Speaking of slot times, its pretty difficult to teach anything new unless there is AT LEAST a 2 hour slot time, less required if its GH revision.. a lot more required if its your first Dual Nav trip..., I find it hard to effectively brief a student and fly a decent nav trip with debrief in anything less than a 2:30 - 3:00hr slot.
Join Date: May 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agreed.
At one club I teach they book double slots for ALL nav-exs...(based on a 1:30 slot - although given that slot I would say instructing is above average - not just because I teach there but due to the organisation involved.
At another one...a double slot is still cutting it fine..1:15 slot times - so still only 2:30 - which as you say for a first dual nav is tough going....im trying to get the CFI to see sense (seems to be stuck in 30hr ppl mode...read the tiger moth manual & away you go chap...)..
oh which leads me into another one...find out if the aircraft slots are the same as the instructor slots....good schools will have them different say running a staggered instructor slot system with 3 instructors per 2 aicraft type thing.....
Hope this helps
At one club I teach they book double slots for ALL nav-exs...(based on a 1:30 slot - although given that slot I would say instructing is above average - not just because I teach there but due to the organisation involved.
At another one...a double slot is still cutting it fine..1:15 slot times - so still only 2:30 - which as you say for a first dual nav is tough going....im trying to get the CFI to see sense (seems to be stuck in 30hr ppl mode...read the tiger moth manual & away you go chap...)..
oh which leads me into another one...find out if the aircraft slots are the same as the instructor slots....good schools will have them different say running a staggered instructor slot system with 3 instructors per 2 aicraft type thing.....
Hope this helps
