Instructing/conditions, and progression beyond
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Instructing/conditions, and progression beyond
Hi all,
I posted and mistakently deleted this thread earlier this morning, apologies.
I'm a circa 200 hour ppl holder. I've decided to take the plunge, jack in the day job and complete CPL and instructors rating early next summer, and hopefully start instructing full time. My ultimate ambition is to fly for an airline or corporate operator but I've always wanted to instruct first (I've enjoyed the teaching aspects of my non flying jobs so ideally would like to combine the two).
Ideally I'd eventually like to combine SEP instructing with a better paid gig flying something bigger, so would envisage a year or two of full time instructing, networking like hell and then doing the IR and MCC when an opportunity to move on presented itself.
I'm curious to know how things are for instructors currently in terms of annual hours you may expect to fly working full time at a large commercial school in the London area, pay levels and what if any progression opportunities people are seeing as the economy picks up. I'm aware pay is very low but I have no dependents so I'm happy to take a large drop in earnings, at least for a few years.
There are threads exploring similar topics but these date back to pre recession days when the world was very different, so keen to hear about the current situation.
Cheers.
T
I posted and mistakently deleted this thread earlier this morning, apologies.
I'm a circa 200 hour ppl holder. I've decided to take the plunge, jack in the day job and complete CPL and instructors rating early next summer, and hopefully start instructing full time. My ultimate ambition is to fly for an airline or corporate operator but I've always wanted to instruct first (I've enjoyed the teaching aspects of my non flying jobs so ideally would like to combine the two).
Ideally I'd eventually like to combine SEP instructing with a better paid gig flying something bigger, so would envisage a year or two of full time instructing, networking like hell and then doing the IR and MCC when an opportunity to move on presented itself.
I'm curious to know how things are for instructors currently in terms of annual hours you may expect to fly working full time at a large commercial school in the London area, pay levels and what if any progression opportunities people are seeing as the economy picks up. I'm aware pay is very low but I have no dependents so I'm happy to take a large drop in earnings, at least for a few years.
There are threads exploring similar topics but these date back to pre recession days when the world was very different, so keen to hear about the current situation.
Cheers.
T
Educated Hillbilly
Well I know a lot of FIs who have now been instructing four plus years full time and not moved on to anything.
On average as a PPL instructor you are going to get paid 15 to 20 pounds per hour flight pay and more than likely little or no retainer.
At the busiest Schools around London I do know some that are flying 700 plus hours a year, other places full time instructors may only be getting 300 or so hours a year. At 20 per hour flight pay you do the figures.
I would not recommend anyone to instruct full time, part time instruct and use the full time job to provide funds to do some more varied and challenging flying (twin time, touring in high performance singles). The only reason for a short spell of full time instructing is useful is to stand a chance of getting the Restriction lifted in a reasonable time frame.
Instructing can develop certain skills at the same time PPL level instructing can also be quite limited experience.
Bear in mind to actually make a living instructing you really need to be doing MEP and IR instructing, the cost of gaining the 30 hours P1 multi, the MEI upgrade and the IRI upgrade will soon mount up to the region of £10,000.
The one flaw in your plan doing and IR and MCC when an opportunity presents it self. When an opportunity does presents itself you need to be ready to go immediately they often wont have six weeks to wait for you to do an IR, a more sensible approach would be to set yourself an hours milestone at which to do the IR (ie: at 700 hours or 1000 hours total time).
On average as a PPL instructor you are going to get paid 15 to 20 pounds per hour flight pay and more than likely little or no retainer.
At the busiest Schools around London I do know some that are flying 700 plus hours a year, other places full time instructors may only be getting 300 or so hours a year. At 20 per hour flight pay you do the figures.
I would not recommend anyone to instruct full time, part time instruct and use the full time job to provide funds to do some more varied and challenging flying (twin time, touring in high performance singles). The only reason for a short spell of full time instructing is useful is to stand a chance of getting the Restriction lifted in a reasonable time frame.
Instructing can develop certain skills at the same time PPL level instructing can also be quite limited experience.
Bear in mind to actually make a living instructing you really need to be doing MEP and IR instructing, the cost of gaining the 30 hours P1 multi, the MEI upgrade and the IRI upgrade will soon mount up to the region of £10,000.
The one flaw in your plan doing and IR and MCC when an opportunity presents it self. When an opportunity does presents itself you need to be ready to go immediately they often wont have six weeks to wait for you to do an IR, a more sensible approach would be to set yourself an hours milestone at which to do the IR (ie: at 700 hours or 1000 hours total time).
Last edited by portsharbourflyer; 27th Sep 2014 at 21:38.
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There is another flaw in your plan which maybe you decided to ignore because it does not fit in with your plans.
If there are guys out there who have been instructing for four years or more it should indicate a serious lack of opportunities to move on. I also know several very capable and fully qualified people who cannot wait to get out of instructing into something they regard as better.
Sadly for them the opportunity has not presented itself. Its nothing to do with lack of talent or keenness or networking but pure and simple lack of opportunity.
What I am suggesting is not to throw in your day job whether you love it or hate it but study and train while in employment.
Sorry but that's my two penny's worth!
If there are guys out there who have been instructing for four years or more it should indicate a serious lack of opportunities to move on. I also know several very capable and fully qualified people who cannot wait to get out of instructing into something they regard as better.
Sadly for them the opportunity has not presented itself. Its nothing to do with lack of talent or keenness or networking but pure and simple lack of opportunity.
What I am suggesting is not to throw in your day job whether you love it or hate it but study and train while in employment.
Sorry but that's my two penny's worth!
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And in the last 6 weeks I have know 3 instructors who have moved into the LHS.
One had been instructing part time for 4 years. The other two for less than a year. All had around 700 hours.
One had been instructing part time for 4 years. The other two for less than a year. All had around 700 hours.
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Well that's good for them but did you mean RHS as I doubt they would get LHS with 700 hours?
ORO.FC.A.250 Commanders holding a CPL(A)
(a) The holder of a CPL(A) (aeroplane) shall only act as commander in commercial air transport on a single-pilot aeroplane if:
(1) when carrying passengers under VFR outside a radius of 50 NM (90 km) from an aerodrome of departure, he/she has a minimum of 500 hours of flight time on aeroplanes or holds a valid instrument rating; or
(2) when operating on a multi-engine type under IFR, he/she has a minimum of 700 hours of flight time on aeroplanes,
Last edited by 172510; 3rd Oct 2014 at 20:53. Reason: Typo
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Excellent demonstration on knowledge of regulations 172 - however most people want to fly shiny jets. Even so 3 instructors in 6 weeks still remains a small proportion of those who want to move on!
Last edited by PPRuNeUser0173; 30th Sep 2014 at 12:52.
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Hummmpff!!
"Move on"??
This is what the words at the top of this forum say:
"A place for instructors to communicate with one another because some of them get a bit tired of the attitude that instructing is the lowest form of aviation, as seems to prevail on some of the other forums!"
(mind you, I do agree about not giving up the day-job)
"Move on"??
This is what the words at the top of this forum say:
"A place for instructors to communicate with one another because some of them get a bit tired of the attitude that instructing is the lowest form of aviation, as seems to prevail on some of the other forums!"
(mind you, I do agree about not giving up the day-job)
