What is a flight instructor?
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Just to stir the pot a little deeper here in Canada a pilot with a flight instructor rating can start training other pilots for a sea plane rating as soon as said instructor finishes a seven hour sea plane rating.
A commercial pilot can give flight instruction for a sea plane rating once they get fifty hours of sea plane flight time.
Anyone see anything strange in that?
A commercial pilot can give flight instruction for a sea plane rating once they get fifty hours of sea plane flight time.
Anyone see anything strange in that?
Well Chuck I have never flown seaplanes but I have many thousands of NM under sail, solo, in the open sea. I can't imagine ANY one could adequately instruct on seaplanes after just 7 hours total. They would still be coming to terms with the whole new deal themselves. Even 50 hours sounds a bit light on - maybe OK for lakes and other pussy ponds?
But I take your point - too much value seems to be placed on a Flight Instructor rating being the font of all knowledge.
Here in Oz, CASA just set up a specialist department to periodically examine all the ATOs (Approved Testing Officers) in the industry. Which means everyone from your local club CFI through to the Head of Flight Operations in a large airline. The one mandatory qualification that CASA required for the job was a Grade One Flight Instructor Rating. Not previous airline check and training experience for the airline supervision, tho' obviously that would help. Had to have the Grade One, no matter what.
Had I any real interest in such a job, I would be real p!ssed off at being excluded.
Setting the base standard on a qualification which can be gained entirely in light single engine aeroplanes and which has not evolved much in 50 years does not augur well for a rational approach to modern demands for the MPL etc.
But I take your point - too much value seems to be placed on a Flight Instructor rating being the font of all knowledge.
Here in Oz, CASA just set up a specialist department to periodically examine all the ATOs (Approved Testing Officers) in the industry. Which means everyone from your local club CFI through to the Head of Flight Operations in a large airline. The one mandatory qualification that CASA required for the job was a Grade One Flight Instructor Rating. Not previous airline check and training experience for the airline supervision, tho' obviously that would help. Had to have the Grade One, no matter what.
Had I any real interest in such a job, I would be real p!ssed off at being excluded.
Setting the base standard on a qualification which can be gained entirely in light single engine aeroplanes and which has not evolved much in 50 years does not augur well for a rational approach to modern demands for the MPL etc.
Instructor or not you still need 50 hrs before you can instruct on floats. But the whole float rating process in Canada is a joke. There is no flight test so there is no independant verification that the student has learned anything and the knowledge and skill requirements are far too low, for both the instructor and the student. In a perfect world the instructor would have to have significant real world experience (IMO at least 500hrs of line flying in a commercial operations) and have to receive training on instructional technique and have developed an effective curriculum.
Never the less, there are some very highly experienced and very able seaplane instructors working in Canada so I am always amazed at the fact students willingly take instruction from somebody with no practical experience when there are better options available if only they had done some homework. But then in general it seems many students put more effort into picking their mobile phone plan than picking a flying school
Never the less, there are some very highly experienced and very able seaplane instructors working in Canada so I am always amazed at the fact students willingly take instruction from somebody with no practical experience when there are better options available if only they had done some homework. But then in general it seems many students put more effort into picking their mobile phone plan than picking a flying school
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Mach E Avelli in a perverse way I am comforted to know that Australia is not missing out on the advantages of having deep thinking government people who are making sure your pilots are not being taught by inept ignorant instructors.
I am afraid to go to bed with the knowledge that for all those years we have been flying with airline crews who have been taught by instructors who were not certified flight instructors.
No wonder there have been airplane accidents in the airlines, what else would one expect knowing the pilots were receiving training from inept, uneducated instructors.
Now that CASA has shown they are beyond the leading edge in deep thinking why not send a few of the brighter ones to the world conference on global warming so they can save the whole planet?
Sometimes I fear for my own sanity when I think of the depths of ignorance I have been subjected to.
Do you think it is to late for me to go back to school and renew my instructors rating?
I look at the Cub I am working on in my work shop and wonder what I will do with it when I finish building it, my original intention was to give tail wheel instruction with it, but now I am deeply troubled wondering if I will have the strength to go back to school and get a license to allow me to teach on the thing........it is troubling to say the least.
I am afraid to go to bed with the knowledge that for all those years we have been flying with airline crews who have been taught by instructors who were not certified flight instructors.
No wonder there have been airplane accidents in the airlines, what else would one expect knowing the pilots were receiving training from inept, uneducated instructors.
Now that CASA has shown they are beyond the leading edge in deep thinking why not send a few of the brighter ones to the world conference on global warming so they can save the whole planet?
Sometimes I fear for my own sanity when I think of the depths of ignorance I have been subjected to.
Do you think it is to late for me to go back to school and renew my instructors rating?
I look at the Cub I am working on in my work shop and wonder what I will do with it when I finish building it, my original intention was to give tail wheel instruction with it, but now I am deeply troubled wondering if I will have the strength to go back to school and get a license to allow me to teach on the thing........it is troubling to say the least.
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As to the sea plane rating requirements in Canada it is interesting that T.C. requires five solo take offs and landings but no flight test.
If nothing else removing the five solo T & L requirement and replacing it with a flight test with an independent examiner would lower the insurance costs for sea plane training.
Then again it can't be all that difficult a task to learn to fly one because a lot of us only had five hours training with no solo requirement to get our sea plane ratings.
If nothing else removing the five solo T & L requirement and replacing it with a flight test with an independent examiner would lower the insurance costs for sea plane training.
Then again it can't be all that difficult a task to learn to fly one because a lot of us only had five hours training with no solo requirement to get our sea plane ratings.
Yeh, the dreaded Instructor rating....A couple of years ago I got involved in the relatively new Recreational Aviation system (probably Sport Pilot in Canada?). Wanted to convert the ATPL so did the 5 hours in a stripped-out 85 h.p. L4J Cub (on which I already had more than 5 hours, but as that time was really on a 150 h.p. Super Cub it was not within the Recreational Aircraft weight limit). Despite another 300 hours in hang gliders, I had no argument with the 5 hour concept, as low inertia aeroplanes can bite old transport pilots. Anyways, got the RAA certificate. Bought my own little 80 h.p. taildragger Sonex. Have since racked up over 100 hours on it in my spare time, flying around a fair chunk of Australia. So, now, I would like to do a bit of RA instruction, strictly as a spare time thing and to help out some of the guys at my local field with BFRs etc. BUT, I am told that I have to do the whole 30 hour flying course plus all the theory, plus, plus. The system does not allow ANY concessions for prior instructional experience. Yet, another RA pilot can do the same thing in the same time after only 75 hours of flying in RA aircraft and with NO other aviation experience - period.
What makes it even more of a pain in the butt is that many of the schools that will gleefully take your money to teach the rating can't examine for the issue of it. So once you do the training it's up to you to call in one of the few approved examiners who may or may not be 'standardized' to that school's way, and who just as likely will have their own pet theories. Also some of these examiners can be a bit territorial, so one does not need to be doing the test too close to where one may be about to practise the art, for obvious reasons. So, one needs to think about doing it elswhere, with attendant accommodation or commuting costs. Bottom line....I won't be doing an RA Instructor rating, after all. Given that it would only generate about 50 bucks an hour income (or the equivalent in beer) and I'd be lucky to do 250 hours a year as a freelancer, I am just arrogant enough to figure it is the system's loss, not mine.
Will stick to my properly-paid 'instructional' work that does not require an Instructor rating.
What makes it even more of a pain in the butt is that many of the schools that will gleefully take your money to teach the rating can't examine for the issue of it. So once you do the training it's up to you to call in one of the few approved examiners who may or may not be 'standardized' to that school's way, and who just as likely will have their own pet theories. Also some of these examiners can be a bit territorial, so one does not need to be doing the test too close to where one may be about to practise the art, for obvious reasons. So, one needs to think about doing it elswhere, with attendant accommodation or commuting costs. Bottom line....I won't be doing an RA Instructor rating, after all. Given that it would only generate about 50 bucks an hour income (or the equivalent in beer) and I'd be lucky to do 250 hours a year as a freelancer, I am just arrogant enough to figure it is the system's loss, not mine.
Will stick to my properly-paid 'instructional' work that does not require an Instructor rating.
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 23rd Dec 2009 at 10:53.
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SoCal App the truth is as long as the person who I am flying with is properly licensed for the airplane being flown I can fly with them and give advice as a " Consultant " even if my license is invalid because I don't have a current medical.
I have been through that argument with the Director General Transport Canada in person during a legal inquiry and the decision was that there would be nothing he or T.C. could do to me. We are getting closer and closer to a society that will be micro managed by government bureaucrats from cradle to grave and forced to live like mindless robots.
They want us to be exactly like them.
I have been through that argument with the Director General Transport Canada in person during a legal inquiry and the decision was that there would be nothing he or T.C. could do to me. We are getting closer and closer to a society that will be micro managed by government bureaucrats from cradle to grave and forced to live like mindless robots.
They want us to be exactly like them.
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We are fortunate here in Canada in that we can instruct on such things as multi engine ratings, IFR ratings, sea plane ratings and type ratings without having to hold a flight instructor rating.
We are also fortunate in that bureaucratic inertia guarantees nothing will change in the forseable future.
To my way of thinking it makes perfect sense to allow a pilot to instruct for these ratings without having to go through the flight instructors rating process, as long as said pilot meets the experience requirements set out in the rules.
We are also fortunate in that bureaucratic inertia guarantees nothing will change in the forseable future.
To my way of thinking it makes perfect sense to allow a pilot to instruct for these ratings without having to go through the flight instructors rating process, as long as said pilot meets the experience requirements set out in the rules.
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Good question SoCal as far as I know the instructor would have to be PIC in some cases such as the sea plane rating for the simple reason the student is not qualified to fly the airplane because they do not have the rating.
Myself I make it clear that I am PIC so there is no misunderstanding about who is responsible for the safe operation of the airplane.
I do know that when instructing on airplanes registered in Australia and Europe I had to hold an authorization from both C.A.S.A. and the J.A.A. to fly their airplanes and teach on same. I spent the last ten or so years of my career doing exactly that and as well I was issued an Airdisplay Authorization with no restrictions based on my Canadian license. Mind you I had to jump through all the same hoops as the rest of the air show pilots including an annual flight test.
The FAA would not give me the authorization to teach on U.S. registered airplanes without a FAA CFI, but did allow me to do type rating training and once the student was competent on type a FAA licensed pilot did a ride with them and the type rating was approved...weird huh?
Yeh come to think about it I did several type ratings in South Africa on a U.S. registered airplane and the S.A. C.A.A. issued the type ratings..go figure.
Myself I make it clear that I am PIC so there is no misunderstanding about who is responsible for the safe operation of the airplane.
I do know that when instructing on airplanes registered in Australia and Europe I had to hold an authorization from both C.A.S.A. and the J.A.A. to fly their airplanes and teach on same. I spent the last ten or so years of my career doing exactly that and as well I was issued an Airdisplay Authorization with no restrictions based on my Canadian license. Mind you I had to jump through all the same hoops as the rest of the air show pilots including an annual flight test.
The FAA would not give me the authorization to teach on U.S. registered airplanes without a FAA CFI, but did allow me to do type rating training and once the student was competent on type a FAA licensed pilot did a ride with them and the type rating was approved...weird huh?
Yeh come to think about it I did several type ratings in South Africa on a U.S. registered airplane and the S.A. C.A.A. issued the type ratings..go figure.
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You can't.
I was only pointing out that you can fly with a licensed pilot as a consultant ( teacher ) even if you do not hold a current medical.
Incidentally my medical is current.
Going back to my starting this thread it was to point out that not holding a current instructors rating does not mean one has suddenly become incompetent as a teacher.
Holding a current instructors rating does allow you to teach at the ab-initio level where the pay is sub standard to a common labourer.
To me it makes no sense to hold a rating that will only result in working for peanuts.
I was only pointing out that you can fly with a licensed pilot as a consultant ( teacher ) even if you do not hold a current medical.
Incidentally my medical is current.
Going back to my starting this thread it was to point out that not holding a current instructors rating does not mean one has suddenly become incompetent as a teacher.
Holding a current instructors rating does allow you to teach at the ab-initio level where the pay is sub standard to a common labourer.
To me it makes no sense to hold a rating that will only result in working for peanuts.
Last edited by Chuck Ellsworth; 27th Dec 2009 at 15:33.
