Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Flying Instructors & Examiners
Reload this Page >

JAA FI freelance scope in the USA? Possible?

Flying Instructors & Examiners A place for instructors to communicate with one another because some of them get a bit tired of the attitude that instructing is the lowest form of aviation, as seems to prevail on some of the other forums!

JAA FI freelance scope in the USA? Possible?

Old 10th Nov 2009, 23:37
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
JAA FI freelance scope in the USA? Possible?

I have a quick question....... If one is a JAA FI SEP/MEP (unrestricted), then can one instruct JAA Students freelance with their own plane and then sign off the student to go and take a JAA Skills Test in the USA with a JAA Examiner?

Does one have to be affiliated with, work for or get JAA FTO status before instructing a JAA SEP/MEP private or commercial candidate in the USA or not really?
BritishGuy is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2009, 08:38
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 537
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
You will need to register as a Training facility and could also affiliate yourself to a FTO (bit laborious and costly to become FTO)

Strictly speaking You will need a resident work permit or be US citizen to work there however the same is true in reverse and yet we are flooded with FAA CFI's working in Europe so I wouldn't loose too much sleep over that.

Go for it, give it a try and best of British !
belowradar is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2009, 09:37
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 2,523
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
You cannot 'register as a training facility' in the USA. All training leading to the issue of a JAA licence or rating, conducted outside the JAA, must be approved and may be completed only within an approved training organisation. It is not possible, BritishGuy, to freelance in the way that you suggest.

And before we rush off at a tangent, organisations such as UKFT that misleadingly advertise a 'JAA compliant' PPL are not approved as they are merely giving instruction for an FAA certificate and not a JAA PPL.
BillieBob is offline  
Old 11th Nov 2009, 10:32
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There are overseas FTO's in the USA approved by the UK CAA for teaching towards a JAA license these FTO's have JAA Instructors. There are also JAA examiners carrying out skills tests in the USA at such FTO's.

To do so requires the Instructor to be dual qualified in order to be paid to fly in an N reg aircraft.

However it is not possible to freelance as suggested. To teach for multi engine also requires an approved course with approved exams etc and the course is type specific.
S-Works is offline  
Old 12th Nov 2009, 05:45
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Here and there
Posts: 534
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
See Standards Document 39 for what is involved in setting up a FTO in a non-JAA country:

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG_FCL_39.PDF

There are overseas FTO's in the USA approved by the UK CAA for teaching towards a JAA license these FTO's have JAA Instructors. There are also JAA examiners carrying out skills tests in the USA at such FTO's.

To do so requires the Instructor to be dual qualified in order to be paid to fly in an N reg aircraft.
It is the JAA who nominate a host authority, such as the CAA, to oversee JAA training in a non-JAA country. A list of current UK FTOs, including those overseen by the UK CAA are in Standards Document 31.

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/Trainin...c%2031_v97.pdf

Bose-x is correct in that to be paid for JAA instruction in an N-reg aircraft, you must be dual qualified as an instructor. Given the legal system in the USA, you would be well advised to ensure that you are properly qualified prior to giving any instructon, paid for or otherwise.

A JAA Examiner does not have to be attached to the FTO abroad, and may examine in the USA independently, providing he holds appropriate FAA qualifications also. I obtained a written permission from the CAA stating that I may do just that.

Does one have to be affiliated with, work for or get JAA FTO status before instructing a JAA SEP/MEP private or commercial candidate in the USA or not really?
To answer your original question, yes, you do have to instruct under a JAA FTO in order to conduct JAA training in the USA.

Last edited by ifitaintboeing; 12th Nov 2009 at 05:56.
ifitaintboeing is offline  
Old 12th Nov 2009, 16:27
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 537
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
We have many FAA instructors working in UK and Europe who are not authorised to do so if our rules are followed but the FAA are happy with what they are doing

If our JAA instructor is approved to teach or examine in aircraft of any registration then what is the difference ?

Are we just more pedantic in UK/Europe?

Lot's of foreign FAA instructors flouting our country's (European) rules on working yet that is OK

Also how come an FAA instructor can be JAR OK after a couple of hours and teach JAR syllabus but recipricol is not possible

Sounds like an un-level playing field and should explore the "grey areas" in as equally as our FAA Instructors or make sure that things are levelled.
belowradar is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2009, 08:21
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 6,582
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
We have many FAA instructors working in UK
To work as a FAA instructor in the UK you must hold a UK or JAA instructor rating as well. Validations of foreign licences are not given for the purpose of flight instrucion.
If our JAA instructor is approved to teach or examine in aircraft of any registration then what is the difference ?
A JAA instructor is only able to teach in an aeroplane registered in a JAA State, and then not all (France) allow that. Examining is slightly different, Examiner authority is granted by an individual JAA State and is only valid under the auspices of that State unless it is specifically accepted by another State.
Lot's of foreign FAA instructors flouting our country's (European) rules on working yet that is OK
Not in the UK!
Also how come an FAA instructor can be JAR OK after a couple of hours and teach JAR syllabus but reciprocal is not possible
Because UK Industry bullied the UK CAA into it! It is only valid for PPL training which falls into a gap, technically it does not need to be approved, but as the UK is not permitted to register a facility outside the UK it gets around it by approving them as an FTO. As an FTO they should comply with App 1 to JAR-FCL 1.300

As JAR-FCL has no legal status in the UK, except where incorporated into the ANO, and the JAA no longer exists, its all rather academic now.
Whopity is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2009, 08:38
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 537
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Whopity

I know that you are correct in what you say from a regulation and legal perspective....however I also know that there are FAA instructors and Examiners out there working in Europe/UK who do not interpret the rules as scrupulously as you do.

As you say with the end of JAR much of the regulation is obselete.

Seems to me that the problem rests with our own regulatory pwers to be in that they seem determined to allow us to do sod all without lots of red tape and money changing hands whereas other countries help their instructors and examiners to earn a living without being hassled and tied up in red tape and over bloated fees.

Bit of a joke when many clients ask "Are you an FAA instructor ?" "No I am a bloody UK instructor and we are in the UK".

Many pilots go FAA route as it is faster and less costly, this is a very sad inditement on the state of the European regulators especially UK who allow this nonsense situation to continue. They should wake up and revise the current regs and start enabling their own citizens to fly safely with the help of their own countries instructors and training organisations.


Rant over - feel much better now !
belowradar is offline  
Old 13th Nov 2009, 10:21
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 6,582
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Unfortunately the good old British Government is responsible. Look at the volume of ludicrous regulation implemented by Blair, Brown and Claud Muddlesome
Whopity is offline  
Old 14th Nov 2009, 16:54
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 537
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Absolutely agree

Overbloated and unnecessary government intervention which is ineficient and more often than not totally unnecessary.

Example - I pay 86 to remove a no night restriction from my FI license and I am wondering why I have not received it after a couple of weeks ?answer "we have a backlog and are very busy you need to allow 10 days minimum" - But I am paying you 86 bloody pounds !!! that is to cover the cost involved for somebody to print off a new bit of paper and send it to me (nonsense that I need to do this anyway !!).

Long overdue for a radical overhaul of CAA
belowradar is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.