what does it take to fly a jet privately?
Just get on with it, then come back on here in two years from now and tell everyone they were wrong! Seriously, what does it matter what anyone here thinks? you've decided on a plan of action, chosen an aircraft, people have given advice because presumably thats why you came on here in the first place, the majority think your being over ambitious but who cares?
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Many people do instruct to build hours, as I did, and there is no problems at all doing it as you study for IRs etc
If someone started today on a full-time intergrated ATPL course, they would in about 2 years have an (F)ATPL, MEIR, MCC/ Jet appreciation time, and about 250 hours.
You're planning on doing something similar, via the modular route, and looking to fly 1500 hours in the same time. From my experience in aviation, I feel that the timescale you have set is too limiting. I would realistically expect it to take 3-4 years to achieve your aims.
Trying to pick the information from your posts on various threads, I'm trying to sort out the background to all this. You work/contract for someone wealthy, who has a boat in the Med; they wan't someone to fly a private aircraft there (and other places) for them; you're ex-RAF and ATC and so are there perfect man for the job; you've come up with a plan and a schedule; they're paying for it and expect a result within the specified time?
My feeling is that they don't know what to expect form a 'corporate' pilot but it would be nice to have one; you have underestimated what it takes to become one.
With the amount of money that is mentioned, go and look at Gold Air, LEA etc to get you to the Med. Get a nice new C172 for flying in the UK.
If someone started today on a full-time intergrated ATPL course, they would in about 2 years have an (F)ATPL, MEIR, MCC/ Jet appreciation time, and about 250 hours.
You're planning on doing something similar, via the modular route, and looking to fly 1500 hours in the same time. From my experience in aviation, I feel that the timescale you have set is too limiting. I would realistically expect it to take 3-4 years to achieve your aims.
Trying to pick the information from your posts on various threads, I'm trying to sort out the background to all this. You work/contract for someone wealthy, who has a boat in the Med; they wan't someone to fly a private aircraft there (and other places) for them; you're ex-RAF and ATC and so are there perfect man for the job; you've come up with a plan and a schedule; they're paying for it and expect a result within the specified time?
My feeling is that they don't know what to expect form a 'corporate' pilot but it would be nice to have one; you have underestimated what it takes to become one.
With the amount of money that is mentioned, go and look at Gold Air, LEA etc to get you to the Med. Get a nice new C172 for flying in the UK.
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Pretty close but a few gaps.
The back ground is ABOUT right and the reason almost is but lots left out for varied reasons.
When it was first proposed I asked WHAT IS IT POSSIBLE TO FLY? what was possible to learn given a daily flying programme, and the right kit to learn in? The thing is though I dont have to fly the thing at all, It is fine by her to get in a pilot. But she wanted me to fly rather than be stuck rotting behind a desk all day and initially I thought I would rather fly it single pilot if It can be done.
Question 1..can it be done? ..
yes but not the way we first discussed. Some pilots very kindly spent some considerable time organising a fying traing programme for me and pointing out the limitations of Jets and the B200 and the skill levels needed for both.
Question 2 Can I learn to fly the B200?
Yes but given a more realistic training programme, which I now have.
Question 3 Do I need to do the cpl atpl
No I don't but I can do one and it seems sensible to wait and do it after I have got 750 of the first 1500 hours we discussed in training.
Question 4
So if I was flying every day in one country or another how long would it take to get 1500 flying hours in?
Varied answers but consensus is I could get in the Cherokee or Arrow or what ever as a sinlge, progress through Seneca and Cheiftain building up hours and types and experience and progress to flying the B200 right seat with a captain the left seat then progress to the left seat with a safety pilot then end up flying it myself eventually. Lots of pilots including instructors fly more than 3 hours a day so theoretically 500 days. On the other hand I am reliably informed that despite what is potentially possible it cant actually be done in under 5 years (1.21 hours per day) because fate contrives it that way. Bummer! ok well so its going to take longer to get 1500 hours in worst case scenario.
Is there current demand for instructors? Yes there seems to be.
Am I limited to flying in this country for my training and hours building?
No not at all. So I can mittigate the effects of the weather, learn FAA and JAA and study for CPL AND ATPL along the way. (note not all at the same time from day one)
Question 5
So is there anything stopping me from progressing and doing a flying instructors course because I would rather be flying than sitting on a boat or diving?, been there done that wasnt that much fun.
..Yes loads of people progress through instructing building hours as they work towards fATPL.
BUT that is being unrealistic?
Yes I'll be glad to tell you in 2 years time how I am getting on, maybe some of the ppruners who are helping might like to embarrass me on here if and when I do something really stupid or take the
out of trying to train a guy well outside the normal age for bracket for "students".
OK final note before I go back up to the horse show....
I am quite sure that we will be putting one if not two other people through their ATPL training to help them get started on that long ladder up to a proper flight deck, Both female sorry guys, because no matter how bright they are, coming from a background of abject poverty they didnt stand a chance at all otherwise and to me that was the best way to use what we will have saved in buying something more sensible for a lot less money .
So pprune has effectively created two new jobs opportunities,
.
CESSNA 172 ?
GOD FORBID ........Id rather push a Mooney than fly one of them things. If I have to fly something at least the wings will be in the right place !
The back ground is ABOUT right and the reason almost is but lots left out for varied reasons.
When it was first proposed I asked WHAT IS IT POSSIBLE TO FLY? what was possible to learn given a daily flying programme, and the right kit to learn in? The thing is though I dont have to fly the thing at all, It is fine by her to get in a pilot. But she wanted me to fly rather than be stuck rotting behind a desk all day and initially I thought I would rather fly it single pilot if It can be done.
Question 1..can it be done? ..
yes but not the way we first discussed. Some pilots very kindly spent some considerable time organising a fying traing programme for me and pointing out the limitations of Jets and the B200 and the skill levels needed for both.
Question 2 Can I learn to fly the B200?
Yes but given a more realistic training programme, which I now have.
Question 3 Do I need to do the cpl atpl
No I don't but I can do one and it seems sensible to wait and do it after I have got 750 of the first 1500 hours we discussed in training.
Question 4
So if I was flying every day in one country or another how long would it take to get 1500 flying hours in?
Varied answers but consensus is I could get in the Cherokee or Arrow or what ever as a sinlge, progress through Seneca and Cheiftain building up hours and types and experience and progress to flying the B200 right seat with a captain the left seat then progress to the left seat with a safety pilot then end up flying it myself eventually. Lots of pilots including instructors fly more than 3 hours a day so theoretically 500 days. On the other hand I am reliably informed that despite what is potentially possible it cant actually be done in under 5 years (1.21 hours per day) because fate contrives it that way. Bummer! ok well so its going to take longer to get 1500 hours in worst case scenario.
Is there current demand for instructors? Yes there seems to be.
Am I limited to flying in this country for my training and hours building?
No not at all. So I can mittigate the effects of the weather, learn FAA and JAA and study for CPL AND ATPL along the way. (note not all at the same time from day one)
Question 5
So is there anything stopping me from progressing and doing a flying instructors course because I would rather be flying than sitting on a boat or diving?, been there done that wasnt that much fun.
..Yes loads of people progress through instructing building hours as they work towards fATPL.
BUT that is being unrealistic?
Yes I'll be glad to tell you in 2 years time how I am getting on, maybe some of the ppruners who are helping might like to embarrass me on here if and when I do something really stupid or take the
out of trying to train a guy well outside the normal age for bracket for "students". OK final note before I go back up to the horse show....
I am quite sure that we will be putting one if not two other people through their ATPL training to help them get started on that long ladder up to a proper flight deck, Both female sorry guys, because no matter how bright they are, coming from a background of abject poverty they didnt stand a chance at all otherwise and to me that was the best way to use what we will have saved in buying something more sensible for a lot less money .
So pprune has effectively created two new jobs opportunities,
.CESSNA 172 ?
GOD FORBID ........Id rather push a Mooney than fly one of them things. If I have to fly something at least the wings will be in the right place !
Last edited by radicalrabit; 11th May 2008 at 13:12. Reason: still cant spell !
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One little problem. Can you log p2 time on the B200 when used for private use? Would you not need to either be ICUS or PIC under instruction? Just a thought.
This would require you initial flying partner to be FAA Instructor rated, in order for you to legally log the time.
This would require you initial flying partner to be FAA Instructor rated, in order for you to legally log the time.
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I find this whole conversation quite extraordinary....
Has anyone else heard of 'Walter Mitty' ?
Can you log p2 time on the B200 when used for private use? Would you not need to either be ICUS or PIC under instruction?
I am going to go out on a limb here..............am I the only one thinking is this for real ?
If radicalrabbit's boss (girlfriend?) has that much time and money to waste on one (three?) individual (s) then she needs her head examined !!
Money for a B200......yes, buy one.....then pay a commercial pilot to fly it...........End of.
I mean. come on.........
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Right, Rabbit, that's the trip to the Med sorted out...
So, in anticipation of your next question, you'll need:
Yachmaster theory and practical
International Certificate of Competence with CEVNI endorsement
VHF certificate (DSC, naturally)
Radar certificate
...and the good news is that you really CAN do all of that in about three or four months!
Then you can post your awkward questions about anchoring technique at ybw.com/forums
There is always the danger that you'll no longer be, errr, flavour of the month by then...
...in which case, if your other half is tasty, I've got all the above, plus ATPL(A), thousands of hours, command and training time, management experience, you name it... And I know how to look after a lady!!! (or three!!!!!!!)
So, in anticipation of your next question, you'll need:
Yachmaster theory and practical
International Certificate of Competence with CEVNI endorsement
VHF certificate (DSC, naturally)
Radar certificate
...and the good news is that you really CAN do all of that in about three or four months!
Then you can post your awkward questions about anchoring technique at ybw.com/forums
There is always the danger that you'll no longer be, errr, flavour of the month by then...
...in which case, if your other half is tasty, I've got all the above, plus ATPL(A), thousands of hours, command and training time, management experience, you name it... And I know how to look after a lady!!! (or three!!!!!!!)
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FLH
Thanks for the offer mate, She is a friend, not in a relationship so I'll make sure she reads what you put. Suppose when you had a crap life like hers has been so far doing stuff purely to help other people seems quite logical. As far as crew are concerned for the boat, My brother was Merchant navy and pushed all sorts of big stuff round the oceans so he volunteered for the job as he is eminently qualified and as he is retired is happy to do it for the view and change of scenery. Caithness may have its good points but its far less windy in the med. Also the broker has spoken to the existing Captain who is prepared to stay with her for two years and he knows the people who have chartered her before which will help with the continuity.
Any other sneid remarks about Walter Mitty? Odd situation to be in but there you go, life is often stranger than fiction.
SORRY TO DENT YER EGO keep dreaming about your three women
Any other sneid remarks about Walter Mitty? Odd situation to be in but there you go, life is often stranger than fiction.
SORRY TO DENT YER EGO keep dreaming about your three women
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sniping again?
Just borrowed rads pc while he is at work.
Thanks first to the guys who have helped, it has been an education and really worth while going to see the B200 up close and personal.
What we will have saved by getting the right "tool for the job" meant we could buy a Ferrari 308GTB a Maserati Merak and fund the training.
Yes we found a stunning boat and its only a matter of time now before it all starts to happen and I for one am looking forward to the party.
Shame some jerk who fancies himself blurred the post with his fantasy about three women , but it takes all kinds eh? Thankfully I escaped from someone just like him . Being the better side of four million reasons for moving on now , using it to benefit my mates, some kids who suffered from abuse or poverty and their families is probably something he cant get his selfish head round either, shame its my problem not his !
Right got to go. Keep writing I love this forum
Thanks first to the guys who have helped, it has been an education and really worth while going to see the B200 up close and personal.
What we will have saved by getting the right "tool for the job" meant we could buy a Ferrari 308GTB a Maserati Merak and fund the training.
Yes we found a stunning boat and its only a matter of time now before it all starts to happen and I for one am looking forward to the party.
Shame some jerk who fancies himself blurred the post with his fantasy about three women , but it takes all kinds eh? Thankfully I escaped from someone just like him . Being the better side of four million reasons for moving on now , using it to benefit my mates, some kids who suffered from abuse or poverty and their families is probably something he cant get his selfish head round either, shame its my problem not his !
Right got to go. Keep writing I love this forum
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Surreality...or not?!?
I am another who has been following this thread with amusement....
You know what, after having worked in Monaco the last year or so & having encountered people in my work similar to those Mr RR seems to be frequenting, it's not entirely beyond the realms that his story is true, incredible as it sounds.
There are heli pilots from the mega-yachts in that part of the world who have to fly along the coast some days in their latest-spec A109 or EC135 just to keep up their hours....it really does happen.
More incredible perhaps is that some of these owners really are not so awful as you'd imagine.....they just spent millions like we spend pennies
Doesn't take away from this thread being such a good read though....will be rather a shame if it's all one great spoof!!
You know what, after having worked in Monaco the last year or so & having encountered people in my work similar to those Mr RR seems to be frequenting, it's not entirely beyond the realms that his story is true, incredible as it sounds.
There are heli pilots from the mega-yachts in that part of the world who have to fly along the coast some days in their latest-spec A109 or EC135 just to keep up their hours....it really does happen.
More incredible perhaps is that some of these owners really are not so awful as you'd imagine.....they just spent millions like we spend pennies
Doesn't take away from this thread being such a good read though....will be rather a shame if it's all one great spoof!!
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Chaps
Well, I think this whole discussion is for a lack of words ‘Dreamy’, if the millions are at his disposal, why seek advice from PPRUNE? I mean really? Surely the butler or maid could assist, or for that matter, who ever is selling this guy the B200? Just some food for thought! As far as I am aware, even when buying an Eclipse, there is a comprehensive support infrastructure and advice on insurance and minimums? The sales guys will usually do anything they can to get you to buy the product, whether is means arranging insurance or organizing the relevant courses, a type rating would be thrown in for free for these kinds of deals!
Well, I think this whole discussion is for a lack of words ‘Dreamy’, if the millions are at his disposal, why seek advice from PPRUNE? I mean really? Surely the butler or maid could assist, or for that matter, who ever is selling this guy the B200? Just some food for thought! As far as I am aware, even when buying an Eclipse, there is a comprehensive support infrastructure and advice on insurance and minimums? The sales guys will usually do anything they can to get you to buy the product, whether is means arranging insurance or organizing the relevant courses, a type rating would be thrown in for free for these kinds of deals!
