what does it take to fly a jet privately?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Derbyshire
Age: 67
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
what does it take to fly a jet privately?
What qualification . rating /experience would I need to fly a Citation 500 as a private flight. Just me and my friend going abroad to her boat and paying the costs ourselves.
I think doing a cpl and m/e (faa as its n reg ) and instrument rating? Anything else? Minimum hours about 250 ? (ish )
Any one got any pointers if it can be done and where?
I think doing a cpl and m/e (faa as its n reg ) and instrument rating? Anything else? Minimum hours about 250 ? (ish )
Any one got any pointers if it can be done and where?
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: North West
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In terms of qualification.
As its a private flight, in theory you need a ppl with an MEP rating and a class rating for the particular type of aircraft.
That would allow you to fly VFR, which may not be a lot of use.
To fly ifr outside the UK, you would need an IR of course, theory and flying course.
If its N-reg, all the above could be done in USA to FAA standard.
Again if its purley private, I dont believe there is any need to get a CPL.
In terms of experience... I cant comment.
As its a private flight, in theory you need a ppl with an MEP rating and a class rating for the particular type of aircraft.
That would allow you to fly VFR, which may not be a lot of use.
To fly ifr outside the UK, you would need an IR of course, theory and flying course.
If its N-reg, all the above could be done in USA to FAA standard.
Again if its purley private, I dont believe there is any need to get a CPL.
In terms of experience... I cant comment.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 789
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Citation 500
Cherokee 6
Aztek
Seneca II
Robin ecoflyer
PA28
B200
Jetstream 31/32
Merlin III
Chieftain
Cheyenne III
Over the past year, the list of aircraft that you have asked us to help you decide which to buy is impressive.
As you posted this on 30 Jan 2008, you should have it by now, and will probably be JUST STARTING TO LEARN TO FLY!
Although it's encouraging to see students aim for more that a SEP rating, for the time being concentrate on what you need to do - flying a PA28. I've seen students in the past, with big aspirations for what they'll be doing next, not bother with all the requirements for flying a light aircraft, as when they're finished, they'll be flying a complex twin, turboprop or jet [privately]. As a general rule, they have been the harderst to teach and check, and were the less safe or competent pilots.
Enjoy your PPL.
Cherokee 6
Aztek
Seneca II
Robin ecoflyer
PA28
B200
Jetstream 31/32
Merlin III
Chieftain
Cheyenne III
Over the past year, the list of aircraft that you have asked us to help you decide which to buy is impressive.
I am about 10 weeks away from having my first aircraft , a sweet little pa28 to learn to fly in.
Although it's encouraging to see students aim for more that a SEP rating, for the time being concentrate on what you need to do - flying a PA28. I've seen students in the past, with big aspirations for what they'll be doing next, not bother with all the requirements for flying a light aircraft, as when they're finished, they'll be flying a complex twin, turboprop or jet [privately]. As a general rule, they have been the harderst to teach and check, and were the less safe or competent pilots.
Enjoy your PPL.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ask OPS!
Posts: 1,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmmmm, somewhat aspirational 
A few flies in the ointment though with a 'wet behind the ears' PPL.
1. If it's your aircraft, well done, hate to see the insurance cover though!!!! (if you can get it)
2. If it's your friends aircraft, even more well done, however ensure that she/he checks the insurance cover as I think you will find a minimum experience level in there.
3. If you are renting it then, to be honest, forget it! No FBO is going to lease one of those to a low houred PPL pilot with no/little previous jet experience.
4. If you get totally stuck I'll fly it for suitable renumeration
If you do manage it please let us all have a copy of the flight plan for your trip. Just as I can then avoid that airspace at that time thanks!
Have fun
W2P
A few flies in the ointment though with a 'wet behind the ears' PPL.
1. If it's your aircraft, well done, hate to see the insurance cover though!!!! (if you can get it)
2. If it's your friends aircraft, even more well done, however ensure that she/he checks the insurance cover as I think you will find a minimum experience level in there.
3. If you are renting it then, to be honest, forget it! No FBO is going to lease one of those to a low houred PPL pilot with no/little previous jet experience.
4. If you get totally stuck I'll fly it for suitable renumeration
If you do manage it please let us all have a copy of the flight plan for your trip. Just as I can then avoid that airspace at that time thanks!
Have fun
W2P
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
Join Date: May 2000
Location: England
Posts: 1,688
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would say it'd be cheaper, safer and easier to sail yer mates boat over here to be honest and forget flying a jet there until you are experienced at flying.... starting with your non-complex SEP aircraft.... otherwise you will wind up DEAD. A fool and his money are soon parted but in aviation a fool and his life are soon parted especially if money is no object.
Money won't buy you experience or skill - I know this can be a frustrating aspect of learning to fly for those financially afluent and we've all seen people like you roll up at the airfield waving a cheque book and expecting miracles but it's the hard bottom line which you would be extremely unwise to ignore. Think of your family's lives when you kill yourself if not your own.
VFE.
Money won't buy you experience or skill - I know this can be a frustrating aspect of learning to fly for those financially afluent and we've all seen people like you roll up at the airfield waving a cheque book and expecting miracles but it's the hard bottom line which you would be extremely unwise to ignore. Think of your family's lives when you kill yourself if not your own.
VFE.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Derbyshire
Age: 67
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Civil Pilot and others...
I , we have looked at what to buy and researched for months and we learned what we could use and what it would be wise to stay clear of.
MERLINS J 32'S ETC. DEF NOT AN OPTION .
Have really gone round the houses spoken to instructors operators brokers pilots asked heaps of questions on pprune and on Monday we are going to look at a B200 Seems to be the best option for our needs.
Never rush into anything in aviation , I have had that drummed into me too.
Have a £45k budget for training this year so going to get as much flying time in as I can both here and the states. It will be later in the year before I can go to do the instrument course but will do the faa courses first then JAA.
I have founnd a few pilots who will act as captain while I continue my training over the next two years and have got £125k budget to do continuation training. The insurers are happy with a 500 hour pilot.
Fisrt steps with the little trainer are on hold as I am still waiting for the fund (snagged by the mortgage situation in America apparently) .
But anyway Thanks for the help and information
MERLINS J 32'S ETC. DEF NOT AN OPTION .
Have really gone round the houses spoken to instructors operators brokers pilots asked heaps of questions on pprune and on Monday we are going to look at a B200 Seems to be the best option for our needs.
Never rush into anything in aviation , I have had that drummed into me too.
Have a £45k budget for training this year so going to get as much flying time in as I can both here and the states. It will be later in the year before I can go to do the instrument course but will do the faa courses first then JAA.
I have founnd a few pilots who will act as captain while I continue my training over the next two years and have got £125k budget to do continuation training. The insurers are happy with a 500 hour pilot.
Fisrt steps with the little trainer are on hold as I am still waiting for the fund (snagged by the mortgage situation in America apparently) .
But anyway Thanks for the help and information
Last edited by radicalrabit; 4th May 2008 at 12:07. Reason: night time spelling eyes were on
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: In a place where I dont have to fly for food.
Posts: 259
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am impressed if you have found and insurance company who are happy with a 500 hour pilot. I have 500 hours and didnt impress an insurance company when trying to fly something similar to the B200 despite having turbine time
Good luck with buying and running the aircraft.
Good luck with buying and running the aircraft.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Derbyshire
Age: 67
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Insurance
It isnt cheap insurance either.. but apart from the ppl night m/e and faa instrument all the rest will be on the type so about 350 hours on type within the last 6 months by the time i get to be flying it and in the mean time it has stipulations as to who can fly it for us levels of experience and they are not all that high but then again this is private and not corporate / business.
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK,Twighlight Zone
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It requires, a type rating. A pass of either the HPA exam or an ATPL exam pass.
Addition of a type rating to a license requires 200hrs of flight time.
Insurance is an issue for any low hour pilot and 500hrs is low.
There are a few oddities. The Malibu for example. Requires a type rating but not HPA for the piston version. If you want to fly the Turbine you need the HPA and a type rating. If you have a piston type rating then it is only differences training at which point you will also get an SET rating.
The B200 is a full type rating plus the HPA/ATPL.
None of these machines are really VFR machines, the Malibu I fly at VFR levels consumes fuel faster than I can pour it in, yet at FL220 it is doing 220kts for 17GPH. So an IR is also going to be a requirement.
The thought about walking before you run comes to mind.....
Addition of a type rating to a license requires 200hrs of flight time.
Insurance is an issue for any low hour pilot and 500hrs is low.
There are a few oddities. The Malibu for example. Requires a type rating but not HPA for the piston version. If you want to fly the Turbine you need the HPA and a type rating. If you have a piston type rating then it is only differences training at which point you will also get an SET rating.
The B200 is a full type rating plus the HPA/ATPL.
None of these machines are really VFR machines, the Malibu I fly at VFR levels consumes fuel faster than I can pour it in, yet at FL220 it is doing 220kts for 17GPH. So an IR is also going to be a requirement.
The thought about walking before you run comes to mind.....
If it's N Registered then it is true that you don't require a type rating to fly a King Air, however most insurance companies will still insist that you do a course at one of the reputable schools like Flightsafety/ SIMCOM etc, it is still essentially a type rating except that you just get a certificate of completion/competency and not an actual rating on your licence as such. I was recently insured to fly a King air as P1, only after I had passed the said course and had ammased 250 hours as co-pilot and over 700 total time, I'm pretty sure that is about the minimum most companies would accept.
P.S If you need somebody to fly it then I'm available as of now
P.S If you need somebody to fly it then I'm available as of now
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Derbyshire
Age: 67
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Insurance etc
Ok the plan is to do the FAA Training, keep it on the N reg and fly it privately 100% (no iffy charters or anything ).
The insurance company are happy if we use it with a pilot untill I have got 500 hours in and that will, in my case, have been about 11 months intensive flying training and most of it on type.
Is there anything the matter with that ? I would have gone the JAA instrument route but initially the FAA route will get me flying it, Then I intend to do the CPL / for the benefit of the training and study for the ATPL even if I dont need it just to get as much knowledge and training under my belt while I am getting in all the flying time I can.
And anyone who wants to help or come up with suggestion please feel free to get in touch. No a B200 doesnt need a type rating in the states on the N reg but I intend doing a few months flying with an instructor anyway. Fool hardy I am not !!!!!
The insurance company are happy if we use it with a pilot untill I have got 500 hours in and that will, in my case, have been about 11 months intensive flying training and most of it on type.
Is there anything the matter with that ? I would have gone the JAA instrument route but initially the FAA route will get me flying it, Then I intend to do the CPL / for the benefit of the training and study for the ATPL even if I dont need it just to get as much knowledge and training under my belt while I am getting in all the flying time I can.
And anyone who wants to help or come up with suggestion please feel free to get in touch. No a B200 doesnt need a type rating in the states on the N reg but I intend doing a few months flying with an instructor anyway. Fool hardy I am not !!!!!
Can I suggest you register the aircraft with the Ilse of Man (M register), they validate all ICAO licences and by all accounts are a very helpful and reputable aviation authority. One of the advantages is that it wont matter if the pilots have JAA or FAA licences and you dont need to register it with a trust in the States as you do with the 'N' reg. The 'M' register is probably the future for most private and business aircraft in the UK I reckon.
The King Air is a great aircraft and you wont struggle to find experienced crews in the UK to help you fly or manage it.
The King Air is a great aircraft and you wont struggle to find experienced crews in the UK to help you fly or manage it.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 789
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The insurance company are happy if we use it with a pilot untill I have got 500 hours in and that will, in my case, have been about 11 months intensive flying training and most of it on type.
....Then I intend to do the CPL / for the benefit of the training and study for the ATPL even if I dont need it just to get as much knowledge and training under my belt while I am getting in all the flying time I can.
....Then I intend to do the CPL / for the benefit of the training and study for the ATPL even if I dont need it just to get as much knowledge and training under my belt while I am getting in all the flying time I can.
the ppl night m/e and faa instrument
to get as much flying time in as I can both here and the states. It will be later in the year before I can go to do the instrument course but will do the faa courses first then JAA.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Derbyshire
Age: 67
Posts: 182
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A Bit At A Time
I WILL FINISH THE PPL HERE THEN GO TO THE STATES AND THEN COME BACK AND WORK ON THE REST (cpl/atpl studies ) PROBABLY TAKE 2 YEARS OR A BIT LONGER BUT IN THE MEAN TIME I WILL BE GETTING TIME IN ON OUR OWN B200.
If commercial pilots tell me I can do this then I am going to give it a bloody good try. Are you telling me its not possible?
I am told that getting 300 hours in within a year is quite feasable and wont take long to do the next 200 either. FAA ME IR isnt going yo take me a year is it !
Isle of man apparently quit e happy for FAA qualifications but there is nothing to stop me from working towards JAA after doing the FAA is there?
I mean you dont have to be 18 to do this...
If commercial pilots tell me I can do this then I am going to give it a bloody good try. Are you telling me its not possible?
I am told that getting 300 hours in within a year is quite feasable and wont take long to do the next 200 either. FAA ME IR isnt going yo take me a year is it !
Isle of man apparently quit e happy for FAA qualifications but there is nothing to stop me from working towards JAA after doing the FAA is there?
I mean you dont have to be 18 to do this...
