PPL-FI Requirements changing with EASA?
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excrab,
All good points. I'm sure that the experience you mention would be invaluable and you are right there aren't many ex airline pilots at my club. I'm not surprised if they can make that kind of money in the sim.
What I am attempting to do here is get people like me to stand up for themselves. If you read the airline forums you will see that SSTR's are making it easier for those who have rich mums and dads, rather than those who have the best aptitude/skills, to get the job. Rightly many of you seem to think that this trend is destroying your terms and conditions. And you bemoan those who perpetuate the situation (comments on Ryanair spring to mind).
Very rarely do I read Airline pilots saying " what's best for the customer?"........Like cheap flights and arriving on time, or for that matter "what's best for the company?" Like cost cutting on type ratings to boost the profits. You strive for the best terms and conditions you can get and rightly so.
I view the subject of this threat as equivalent for the instructing trade. We are in the driving seat at the moment as there is a shortage of instructors, but rather than taking advantage of this and demanding better terms and conditions, many are finding reasons to do the opposite.
All good points. I'm sure that the experience you mention would be invaluable and you are right there aren't many ex airline pilots at my club. I'm not surprised if they can make that kind of money in the sim.
What I am attempting to do here is get people like me to stand up for themselves. If you read the airline forums you will see that SSTR's are making it easier for those who have rich mums and dads, rather than those who have the best aptitude/skills, to get the job. Rightly many of you seem to think that this trend is destroying your terms and conditions. And you bemoan those who perpetuate the situation (comments on Ryanair spring to mind).
Very rarely do I read Airline pilots saying " what's best for the customer?"........Like cheap flights and arriving on time, or for that matter "what's best for the company?" Like cost cutting on type ratings to boost the profits. You strive for the best terms and conditions you can get and rightly so.
I view the subject of this threat as equivalent for the instructing trade. We are in the driving seat at the moment as there is a shortage of instructors, but rather than taking advantage of this and demanding better terms and conditions, many are finding reasons to do the opposite.
Pringle,
I can see the point you are making, but I'm not convinced that PPL instructors would lead to an erosion of terms and conditions.
When I started instructing I just had enough money to pay for an instructor course having been flying as a hobby for a number of years. I considered myself a "career instructor", that being my only aim, and spent six years and about 3500hrs instructing full time at a flying club before I even obtained my first commercial licence. By that time I was teaching night, multi, IMC and aerobatics as well as abinitio, all of those instructor ratings having been paid for by the flying club (because they knew that with no CPL I wasn't about to disappear quickly) and I was on a salary of £14k, which at the time compared well to that earned by teachers, policemen etc, averaged about £25 per hour looking at the hours flown each year, and would have allowed me to buy a house based on a mortgage of 3 times salary (just).
Bear in mind that was 16 years ago, and I think it is fair to say that being an instructor with a PPL didn't mean I would accept poor terms and conditions - I couldn't say "I'll instruct for £10 per hr because I need the hours to get a job with an airline" - I needed a decent salary to pay the bills and the rent and I was lucky enough to find a club to instruct at where that was possible.
Then as now there were those who were using it as a stepping stone to the airlines, and I would offer the opinion that it is those people who have always driven down terms and conditions, irrespective of what licence their instructor rating was attached to. I don't know the answer to your point about Ts and Cs, but I think that a few part time instructors with PPLs won't make it any worse, nor would full time ones for the same reasons I had when I was doing it.
I can see the point you are making, but I'm not convinced that PPL instructors would lead to an erosion of terms and conditions.
When I started instructing I just had enough money to pay for an instructor course having been flying as a hobby for a number of years. I considered myself a "career instructor", that being my only aim, and spent six years and about 3500hrs instructing full time at a flying club before I even obtained my first commercial licence. By that time I was teaching night, multi, IMC and aerobatics as well as abinitio, all of those instructor ratings having been paid for by the flying club (because they knew that with no CPL I wasn't about to disappear quickly) and I was on a salary of £14k, which at the time compared well to that earned by teachers, policemen etc, averaged about £25 per hour looking at the hours flown each year, and would have allowed me to buy a house based on a mortgage of 3 times salary (just).
Bear in mind that was 16 years ago, and I think it is fair to say that being an instructor with a PPL didn't mean I would accept poor terms and conditions - I couldn't say "I'll instruct for £10 per hr because I need the hours to get a job with an airline" - I needed a decent salary to pay the bills and the rent and I was lucky enough to find a club to instruct at where that was possible.
Then as now there were those who were using it as a stepping stone to the airlines, and I would offer the opinion that it is those people who have always driven down terms and conditions, irrespective of what licence their instructor rating was attached to. I don't know the answer to your point about Ts and Cs, but I think that a few part time instructors with PPLs won't make it any worse, nor would full time ones for the same reasons I had when I was doing it.
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For all those who say pay for FI's will always be poor because the clubs can't afford it. ...
The back pages of Flight and other press suggest the rules of supply and demand do apply to this industry. Salaries of between 20 and 30 k for FI's and FI(R) (as far as I can tell to teach PPL level).
Enjoy it while it lasts though, pay will drop again as soon as the new PPL/FI's enter the market!
The back pages of Flight and other press suggest the rules of supply and demand do apply to this industry. Salaries of between 20 and 30 k for FI's and FI(R) (as far as I can tell to teach PPL level).
Enjoy it while it lasts though, pay will drop again as soon as the new PPL/FI's enter the market!
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£5.40
Indeed... back to the national minimum wage.. oh sorry they are self-employed so it will be less that what the average office cleaner gets paid (again)
What is needed is a body that internationally agrees civil aviation requirements so that we dont continually have the vested interest mob agreeing to changes with other 'industry stakeholders" without any check or balance by other pilots or the voting public
Its all about money not quality this .. and a lack of accountability
The problem is aircraft owners object to their profits being eaten into by the teaching and learning process and they have in this case won the day
What is needed is a body that internationally agrees civil aviation requirements so that we dont continually have the vested interest mob agreeing to changes with other 'industry stakeholders" without any check or balance by other pilots or the voting public
Its all about money not quality this .. and a lack of accountability
The problem is aircraft owners object to their profits being eaten into by the teaching and learning process and they have in this case won the day
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Originally Posted by RVR800
The problem is aircraft owners object to their profits being eaten into by the teaching and learning process and they have in this case won the day
