Whither the flying instructor?
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Whither the flying instructor?
I've just received my October 2004 copy of General Aviation - the journal of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association. I was disheartened to read on page 40 what a young gentleman who pilots a Cessna 172 on scenic flights had to say about instructing :-
"Getting an Instructor rating would not further my career ambitions one bit. It would cost me perhaps £5000, and the hours it would earn me would effectively be useless in the job market. Airlines are barely interested in instructor hours, where you sit with your arms crossed while someone else does the flying."
He goes on to say that his experience flying a Reims Rocket fitted with a variable pitch prop. is of greater value on a C.V. and ends saying "there is little incentive for young people like me to pay for the (instructor) rating".
I wondered if any of my instructor colleagues would agree with his comments - in particular the points about lack of incentives and about sitting with ones' arms crossed whilst instructing? I certainly spend all my time in the cockpit fully alert and ready to fly the aircraft should a student need me to and staying on top of whatever situation we are in. As an advanced car driver will consider the road ahead, I, as an instructor, must consider all the possible combinations of events, weather, traffic, R/T and student response during a flight. All this whilst covering the air exercise itself and seizing any opportunities to cover cross-curricular learning objectives if they arise - surely this can only lead to a greater depth of understanding and airmanship on my part which in turn leads to the furthering of my career? I also feel that my experience so far instructing in SEP aircraft has lead to a well adjusted balance of safety and skill, something which might not be so finely tuned otherwise.
I am personally very happy with instructing as my career, so the comments about relevancy of hours don't worry me - in fact I think the world of flight instruction would be a better place without hours builders. A number of students have asked me recently if I'm going to stop instructing to work for an airline. Sadly, when I reply "no - I am very happy instructing", I get the feeling they simply don't believe me because so many of my colleagues would leave instructing if they could.
As for incentives, I don't think you can beat that proud feeling of sending a student off for their first solo circuit, first solo navigation exercise, PPL skills test or indeed any dual flight when the student has shown improvement and enjoyment. Maybe this feel-good factor is the incentive that we need to be promoting in our industry magazines in order to attract instructors of a suitable calibre into our schools for the future, rather than simply dumbing down instructing as a means to an end? As the Department for Education and Employment would say - "Use your head".
The article also prompts a few questions about the gentleman's own training - did his instructor sit in the right hand seat with arms folded every flight? Or perhaps the student was so overloaded whilst training he didn't even notice what his instructor was doing? Maybe neither is true, but one thing is for sure - the subtleties of instructing were too shallow for our budding commercial pilot to pick up on. He is right that becoming an instructor would not further his career ambitions - his perception of instructing as a method of hours building is an attitude we are better off without.
Your thoughts will be appreciated,
Mystery Shopper
"Getting an Instructor rating would not further my career ambitions one bit. It would cost me perhaps £5000, and the hours it would earn me would effectively be useless in the job market. Airlines are barely interested in instructor hours, where you sit with your arms crossed while someone else does the flying."
He goes on to say that his experience flying a Reims Rocket fitted with a variable pitch prop. is of greater value on a C.V. and ends saying "there is little incentive for young people like me to pay for the (instructor) rating".
I wondered if any of my instructor colleagues would agree with his comments - in particular the points about lack of incentives and about sitting with ones' arms crossed whilst instructing? I certainly spend all my time in the cockpit fully alert and ready to fly the aircraft should a student need me to and staying on top of whatever situation we are in. As an advanced car driver will consider the road ahead, I, as an instructor, must consider all the possible combinations of events, weather, traffic, R/T and student response during a flight. All this whilst covering the air exercise itself and seizing any opportunities to cover cross-curricular learning objectives if they arise - surely this can only lead to a greater depth of understanding and airmanship on my part which in turn leads to the furthering of my career? I also feel that my experience so far instructing in SEP aircraft has lead to a well adjusted balance of safety and skill, something which might not be so finely tuned otherwise.
I am personally very happy with instructing as my career, so the comments about relevancy of hours don't worry me - in fact I think the world of flight instruction would be a better place without hours builders. A number of students have asked me recently if I'm going to stop instructing to work for an airline. Sadly, when I reply "no - I am very happy instructing", I get the feeling they simply don't believe me because so many of my colleagues would leave instructing if they could.
As for incentives, I don't think you can beat that proud feeling of sending a student off for their first solo circuit, first solo navigation exercise, PPL skills test or indeed any dual flight when the student has shown improvement and enjoyment. Maybe this feel-good factor is the incentive that we need to be promoting in our industry magazines in order to attract instructors of a suitable calibre into our schools for the future, rather than simply dumbing down instructing as a means to an end? As the Department for Education and Employment would say - "Use your head".
The article also prompts a few questions about the gentleman's own training - did his instructor sit in the right hand seat with arms folded every flight? Or perhaps the student was so overloaded whilst training he didn't even notice what his instructor was doing? Maybe neither is true, but one thing is for sure - the subtleties of instructing were too shallow for our budding commercial pilot to pick up on. He is right that becoming an instructor would not further his career ambitions - his perception of instructing as a method of hours building is an attitude we are better off without.
Your thoughts will be appreciated,
Mystery Shopper
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I too read this whilst sitting at my flying club today and my thoughts were 'what a plonker' for saying these things, as if flying a Reims Rocket fitted a variable pitch prop makes that much difference! Purrrrlease!! 
mysteryshopper, I am with you all the way on this one and I too was surprised to see his comments.
If you are doing the instructing job properly it's work but very satisfying work at that! Having done the airline pilot bit for circa 25 years and instructing throughout most of that time there is, I agree, nothing quite like teaching someone to fly. Every student and flight is different and, in my opiniion, nobody forgets their basic training and flying instructor(s) - I can remember my first solo like it was yesterday.
Perhaps we should write a letter to the mag to redress the balance!
If you are doing the instructing job properly it's work but very satisfying work at that! Having done the airline pilot bit for circa 25 years and instructing throughout most of that time there is, I agree, nothing quite like teaching someone to fly. Every student and flight is different and, in my opiniion, nobody forgets their basic training and flying instructor(s) - I can remember my first solo like it was yesterday.
Perhaps we should write a letter to the mag to redress the balance!
Why do it if it's not fun?
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I think Crosswind's word - "Plonker" - sums this chap up quite nicely!
In addition to all of Shopper's excellent analysis, I'd also like to point out to our plonker that, in the unlikely event that he ever finds anyone suitably impressed with his time on the Reims Rocket (with that all-important variable pitch prop) to give him a "proper" job, my guess is that he will sit there for most of the flight with his arms crossed while the autopilot does most of the flying. I know that autopilots need monitoring, but I'd guess (having never flown with anything more than a single-axis autopilot) they need a little less monitoring than the average student?
FFF
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In addition to all of Shopper's excellent analysis, I'd also like to point out to our plonker that, in the unlikely event that he ever finds anyone suitably impressed with his time on the Reims Rocket (with that all-important variable pitch prop) to give him a "proper" job, my guess is that he will sit there for most of the flight with his arms crossed while the autopilot does most of the flying. I know that autopilots need monitoring, but I'd guess (having never flown with anything more than a single-axis autopilot) they need a little less monitoring than the average student?
FFF
-----------------
PPRuNe Knight in Shining Armour
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So let this young chap fly around in his 172 for the 40 or so hours that £5000 will give him. Then ask said chap to perform a PFL, I guarantee he'd screw it up. Ask an instructor to perform a PFL and he'd get in 99% of the time.
What this young chap fails to appreciate is that you actually learn how to fly during a FIC, and not just how to operate the controls.
But as Tinny said, those who never have, will never know!
What this young chap fails to appreciate is that you actually learn how to fly during a FIC, and not just how to operate the controls.
But as Tinny said, those who never have, will never know!
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I haven’t read the article yet but sounds to me like someone who has had some half-baked advice and is a bit immature. Let’s hope he learns a bit and thinks more before engaging mouth the next time…
I’m not an instructor but in a position where I could choose to become one. What puts me off slightly is the T & C. Given the experience instructors I know have, they are paid a pitiful amount and work very hard for it. It must also be a bit disheartening to be asked regularly when you’re going to get a ‘proper’ flying job. Helicopter instructors seem to be a little better off – certainly some of the hourly rates I’ve heard make the job more sustainable as a career. I don’t know how we solve the catch22 though – pay the instructors more but don’t make flying prohibitively expensive (there are enough trying to do that already).
On the hours-builders side, I don’t necessarily think they are a bad thing. I know instructors who started that way and liked it so much they stayed. There’s also one who got his jet job, did that and came back because he likes to instruct. I believe that if someone is prepared to put in the effort and try to do their best for their student, they should be welcomed. Until there is another equally valuable and economical way to build hours and the pay reflects the role more, I can’t see things changing much. Fair assessment?
I’m not an instructor but in a position where I could choose to become one. What puts me off slightly is the T & C. Given the experience instructors I know have, they are paid a pitiful amount and work very hard for it. It must also be a bit disheartening to be asked regularly when you’re going to get a ‘proper’ flying job. Helicopter instructors seem to be a little better off – certainly some of the hourly rates I’ve heard make the job more sustainable as a career. I don’t know how we solve the catch22 though – pay the instructors more but don’t make flying prohibitively expensive (there are enough trying to do that already).
On the hours-builders side, I don’t necessarily think they are a bad thing. I know instructors who started that way and liked it so much they stayed. There’s also one who got his jet job, did that and came back because he likes to instruct. I believe that if someone is prepared to put in the effort and try to do their best for their student, they should be welcomed. Until there is another equally valuable and economical way to build hours and the pay reflects the role more, I can’t see things changing much. Fair assessment?
Plonker !
I suppose on this Forum I'm talking to the converted.
Instructing can be the most satisfying job ever and I've been at it, on and off, since 1967. Learned more about flying this way than I ever did in the airline business.
I'm ignoring his attitude because he's obviously very young, spoilt and self-centred. He wouldn't make it as an instructor anyway as he hasn't any consideration for anyone but himself.
But, you know, our tame plonker has a point.
He WILL be putting in the hours that seem to be the main criteria for getting an interview - and cheaper than doing an FIC.
His problem's going to be MCC and whether he can manage to disguise
his arrogant total lack of it at interview.
Rgds, Sleeve.
Instructing can be the most satisfying job ever and I've been at it, on and off, since 1967. Learned more about flying this way than I ever did in the airline business.
I'm ignoring his attitude because he's obviously very young, spoilt and self-centred. He wouldn't make it as an instructor anyway as he hasn't any consideration for anyone but himself.
But, you know, our tame plonker has a point.
He WILL be putting in the hours that seem to be the main criteria for getting an interview - and cheaper than doing an FIC.
His problem's going to be MCC and whether he can manage to disguise
his arrogant total lack of it at interview.
Rgds, Sleeve.
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Thanks for all your thoughts - I will be writing to the magazine and offering them an article on being/becoming an instructor in the near future - watch this space.
Regards
Mystery Shopper
EGBKFLYER - I would agree that the time and commitment required to train as an FI is huge - however I feel that if we start encouraging pilots to consider instructing as a career, the industry may actually start to turn around and reward instructors for what they are worth. I would say you're assessment is absolutely spot on with regard to keen and student orientated instructors - I am lucky enough to work with two people who fit that description. I also agree with your comment that the responsibilities of instructors are not adequately rewarded financially. The flight training industry needs a rethink - thankfully I may be in the correct position to start doing something about it - only on a small scale, but good ideas tend to spread quickly! Thanks for your comments
SLEEVE WING - you're absolutely right about his hours, in that they will be useful to him. I think the point the article is trying to make is that young pilots who are interested in a career in aviation will not consider training as an instructor because they may not be able to move on to other things - such as flying for an airline. Hopefully a well written article about being/becoming an instructor might spark some interest - we can but wait and see. Thank you for replying.
Regards
Mystery Shopper
EGBKFLYER - I would agree that the time and commitment required to train as an FI is huge - however I feel that if we start encouraging pilots to consider instructing as a career, the industry may actually start to turn around and reward instructors for what they are worth. I would say you're assessment is absolutely spot on with regard to keen and student orientated instructors - I am lucky enough to work with two people who fit that description. I also agree with your comment that the responsibilities of instructors are not adequately rewarded financially. The flight training industry needs a rethink - thankfully I may be in the correct position to start doing something about it - only on a small scale, but good ideas tend to spread quickly! Thanks for your comments
SLEEVE WING - you're absolutely right about his hours, in that they will be useful to him. I think the point the article is trying to make is that young pilots who are interested in a career in aviation will not consider training as an instructor because they may not be able to move on to other things - such as flying for an airline. Hopefully a well written article about being/becoming an instructor might spark some interest - we can but wait and see. Thank you for replying.
Mysteryshopper.
Think your idea for a constructive piece in the AOPA house mag., concerning becoming and working as an FI, is long overdue.
I feel the problem of adequate remuneration for FIs will be with us for some time though.
The dilemma is threefold.
1. Some low hour guys, straight out of training, will always be prepared
to take a job for peanuts just to get on the ladder.
2. Good or bad, retirees who return to the training world, with the best
of intentions, nearly always have the lifeboat of a bit of a pension to
cushion the deficit.
3. Until we no longer have to compete with the tax-loaded price of fuel,
we will always have to suffer the ignominy of being the simplest
device in keeping the overall cost of flying training at a reasonable
level.
Should the Flying Club fuel rebate ever be reintroduced (fat chance
of that) then we might be in a stronger position.
You're right. Young and enthusiastic, retired and experienced, we
should be payed a decent rate. But that's a different thread
altogether.
Rgds, Sleeve.
Think your idea for a constructive piece in the AOPA house mag., concerning becoming and working as an FI, is long overdue.
I feel the problem of adequate remuneration for FIs will be with us for some time though.
The dilemma is threefold.
1. Some low hour guys, straight out of training, will always be prepared
to take a job for peanuts just to get on the ladder.
2. Good or bad, retirees who return to the training world, with the best
of intentions, nearly always have the lifeboat of a bit of a pension to
cushion the deficit.
3. Until we no longer have to compete with the tax-loaded price of fuel,
we will always have to suffer the ignominy of being the simplest
device in keeping the overall cost of flying training at a reasonable
level.
Should the Flying Club fuel rebate ever be reintroduced (fat chance
of that) then we might be in a stronger position.
You're right. Young and enthusiastic, retired and experienced, we
should be payed a decent rate. But that's a different thread
altogether.
Rgds, Sleeve.
Fact is thought that the airlines really don't take instructing hours very seriously. A crap paying job on Sheds or 748's or Air Taxi Aztrucks is going to put you streets ahead of a job instructing.
I well remember sounding out the pilot managers from Aer Lingus, Airtours and BA whose cadets I was teaching for CPL IR in Jerez. Even though I was teaching their cadets they had no interest in recruiting the instructors.
They either want you well experienced or nothing at all - instructing puts you into a kind of hinterland. With is based on total tosh but it does seem to be the case.
A fine profession though.
Cheers
WWW
I well remember sounding out the pilot managers from Aer Lingus, Airtours and BA whose cadets I was teaching for CPL IR in Jerez. Even though I was teaching their cadets they had no interest in recruiting the instructors.
They either want you well experienced or nothing at all - instructing puts you into a kind of hinterland. With is based on total tosh but it does seem to be the case.
A fine profession though.
Cheers
WWW
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Mystery Shopper,
From personal experience most magazines will accept any reasonable submission and it would save you and them time to just write it and send it off. In the unlikely event they don't want it I'm sure it'll be appreciated on websites such as this one.
Personally I'll look forward to reading it.
Regards, S
From personal experience most magazines will accept any reasonable submission and it would save you and them time to just write it and send it off. In the unlikely event they don't want it I'm sure it'll be appreciated on websites such as this one.
Personally I'll look forward to reading it.
Regards, S
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Having spent a year, after finishing my cpl/ir, having no luck with interviews at all, I decided to do my FI rating.
I actually, and this surprised me, enjoy instructing. I cannot afford to give up my day job to become a full-time instructor. It's keeping me current and adding to my hours, slowly but surely.
www's comment, true though it maybe, justifies the comments of the article's subject and makes me feel like I wasted my time and money and puts me even further from getting an airline job.
500 hours instructing, just to break even
I actually, and this surprised me, enjoy instructing. I cannot afford to give up my day job to become a full-time instructor. It's keeping me current and adding to my hours, slowly but surely.
www's comment, true though it maybe, justifies the comments of the article's subject and makes me feel like I wasted my time and money and puts me even further from getting an airline job.
500 hours instructing, just to break even
WWW,
That may be true if you expect to progress straight to a big shiny jet, but smaller airlines operating turboprops may still be interested in instructional hours.
What they won't be very interested in, unfortunately, are instructional hours spent at PPL level - anyone aiming for an airline career needs to be thinking about IR and CPL instruction as soon as the chance arises, and even if a flying school wanted to bond you for multi time or instructor ratings it is immaterial, as the pay rise you get going to the right hand seat of almost any airline would make it easy to pay off the bond.
Back to the original part of the thread, I spend a lot of time instructing sitting with my arms crossed, and have done for the last twenty something years - if you sit in a C152 there really isn't any other comfortable place to put them and it doesn't mean you aren't fully alert - after all how often do you actually have to grab the controls to save yourself, rather than just advising the student how to recover from the situation they may have got them selves into? (I am not advocating this for a students first few attempts at landing when you may want to be a little closer to the controls, of course).
If mystery shopper is correct that the article suggests that training as an instuctor is a bad thing for those looking for a career in aviation then surely that is a good thing for career instructors. Less frozen ATPL holders prepared to work for peanuts means better salaries - eventualy - for those who want to instruct.
That may be true if you expect to progress straight to a big shiny jet, but smaller airlines operating turboprops may still be interested in instructional hours.
What they won't be very interested in, unfortunately, are instructional hours spent at PPL level - anyone aiming for an airline career needs to be thinking about IR and CPL instruction as soon as the chance arises, and even if a flying school wanted to bond you for multi time or instructor ratings it is immaterial, as the pay rise you get going to the right hand seat of almost any airline would make it easy to pay off the bond.
Back to the original part of the thread, I spend a lot of time instructing sitting with my arms crossed, and have done for the last twenty something years - if you sit in a C152 there really isn't any other comfortable place to put them and it doesn't mean you aren't fully alert - after all how often do you actually have to grab the controls to save yourself, rather than just advising the student how to recover from the situation they may have got them selves into? (I am not advocating this for a students first few attempts at landing when you may want to be a little closer to the controls, of course).
If mystery shopper is correct that the article suggests that training as an instuctor is a bad thing for those looking for a career in aviation then surely that is a good thing for career instructors. Less frozen ATPL holders prepared to work for peanuts means better salaries - eventualy - for those who want to instruct.
I think there is only one meaningfull criteria for becoming a FI. You have to genuinely like teaching. If you find teachng satisfying then you will enjoy your time as an instructor. If you do not then you will rapidly become frustrated and do yourself and your students a great disfavour. 
Therefore I think it is a wonderfull thing that this pratt does not want to be an instructor, because with his attitude he would be terrible. I do not know how it works in the UK/EU but in North America 500 hrs flying scenic flights in a 172 will be looked on as 1 hr 500 tmes by most chief pilots. It would not be seen as any more usefull preparation for the next step, FO in a MULTI IFR airplane, than 500 hrs of instruction. 
Finaly I would like to note that in my business, fire bombing, I think my extensive flight instrutor experience has served me well. It gave me good stick and rudder skills, a disciplined approach to flight operations and excellent comunications skills.
Therefore I think it is a wonderfull thing that this pratt does not want to be an instructor, because with his attitude he would be terrible. I do not know how it works in the UK/EU but in North America 500 hrs flying scenic flights in a 172 will be looked on as 1 hr 500 tmes by most chief pilots. It would not be seen as any more usefull preparation for the next step, FO in a MULTI IFR airplane, than 500 hrs of instruction. Finaly I would like to note that in my business, fire bombing, I think my extensive flight instrutor experience has served me well. It gave me good stick and rudder skills, a disciplined approach to flight operations and excellent comunications skills.
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...and Instructing will increase your capacity quite a lot as there is so much to think about on a busy Saturday afternoon with iffy Wx out in the local area. This capacity will be useful when attempting the 'where's my jet job?' type rating. It will also provide ample examples for the 'describe a situation where...' questions.
Flying single pilot multi engine IFR air taxi will increase your capacity a heck of a lot more and more usefully though. As will hauling newspapers from Coventry to Belfast in the dead of winter in a barely lit non-GPS 1950's turboprop...
Instructing is more useful than sitting on your arse sending out CVs. But most other flying jobs are more useful.
Didn't stop me being an instructor for many years though - and in hindsight - enjoying it.
Cheers
WWW
Instructing is more useful than sitting on your arse sending out CVs. But most other flying jobs are more useful.
Didn't stop me being an instructor for many years though - and in hindsight - enjoying it.
Cheers
WWW
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Instructing has improved my flying, my situational awareness and my CRM immensely. I am fortunate that it will also be directly relevant to my future career, as I don't have "big shiny jet" syndrome, and so many of the operators I want to work for ask for hours (often an AOC requirement), but don't have a blanket negative response to instructional hours.
However I would also be far more confidant in a sim check - my currency and improved handling skills certainly showed when hand flying a Tristar sim during an auto-pilot malfunction on my MCC (assymetric engine out as well), correct basic flying skills apply as much to a big jet as to a PA-28! Whether I hop into a Kingair or a 727 sim after an interview, I can impress more if I have done 400 hours in the last year as a part-time instructor than if I'd scraped together 20 hours plus an IR renewal!
However I would also be far more confidant in a sim check - my currency and improved handling skills certainly showed when hand flying a Tristar sim during an auto-pilot malfunction on my MCC (assymetric engine out as well), correct basic flying skills apply as much to a big jet as to a PA-28! Whether I hop into a Kingair or a 727 sim after an interview, I can impress more if I have done 400 hours in the last year as a part-time instructor than if I'd scraped together 20 hours plus an IR renewal!
Another bonus with having done flying instruction is that it might stand you in good stead for a training position with an airline later on.
When I was offered the training captain role the fact that I had been involved extensively in many different forms of training made a big difference - think long term!
When I was offered the training captain role the fact that I had been involved extensively in many different forms of training made a big difference - think long term!
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I fly single pilot IFR in a Cessna 310 in UK and Europe and instruct CPL/ME/IR, both compliment each other. I teach differently since flying the commercial stuff especially on the IR. I can be more realistic in the approach to what you need to be able to do.
When you have to fly it for real on your own( also into Belfast) on a really crappy night it gets your attention and you realise what it is you are trying to get the student to do.
Still finding it hard to get a turboprop or jet job even with this, 2000hrs, 550 multi, 600 IFR two licences plus 300hrs seaplane charter and low level forestry fire patrol in Canada and 900hrs CRI/IRI
How much experience do they want?
When you have to fly it for real on your own( also into Belfast) on a really crappy night it gets your attention and you realise what it is you are trying to get the student to do.
Still finding it hard to get a turboprop or jet job even with this, 2000hrs, 550 multi, 600 IFR two licences plus 300hrs seaplane charter and low level forestry fire patrol in Canada and 900hrs CRI/IRI
How much experience do they want?